Here's something you don't see every day, what's the ruling on it?

OneHandedBreak

OneHandedBreak

No handed breaks too
Out at our local last night and one of our group crushes a break almost popping the 8 in a side pocket, but that's not what got everyone's attention, it was the two stripes that had jammed themselves into the other side pocket. Several minutes pass while we're all laughing and taking photos and somebody asks Siri for a ruling but comes up dry. No other balls went down, so there is much discussion about who goes next. The balls are below the playing surface if that matters. Finally after another minute or two they both plop in and the guy who broke keeps shooting with a big grin on his face.

Anyone else ever seen this? Is there a rule on it? Too funny.

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Maha is correct. If balls jam and moving one would cause the other to fall it is a pocketed ball. If both would fall if the other one is moved they are both considered pocketed. The balls are pocketed when they are below the playing surface also. No doubt these two balls should be considered pocketed.

Hu
 
Most rule sets have a section that covers jawed balls.

They all pretty much say something like this.

If two or more balls are locked in the jaws of a pocket, the referee (or players) must project each ball directly downward.

A ball is considered pocketed if it would fall into the pocket, and not pocketed if it would come to rest on the bed of the table. Balls are placed accordingly, and play continues.
 
I actually saw that happen at the US Open in Chicago in the 70s . Miz shot it. I forget the ruling. In your case both balls are clearly off the table. But in Miz case it had to be termined if the ball was still on the table. They were jammed in the pocket.
 
OneHandedBreak said:
Out at our local last night and one of our group crushes a break almost popping the 8 in a side pocket, but that's not what got everyone's attention, it was the two stripes that had jammed themselves into the other side pocket. Several minutes pass while we're all laughing and taking photos and somebody asks Siri for a ruling but comes up dry. No other balls went down, so there is much discussion about who goes next. The balls are below the playing surface if that matters. Finally after another minute or two they both plop in and the guy who broke keeps shooting with a big grin on his face.

Anyone else ever seen this? Is there a rule on it? Too funny.

View attachment 883331

View attachment 883332
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The rules on this situation were recently clarified. The balls are dropped into the pocket. See:

 
Fore Rail said:
If two or more balls are locked in the jaws of a pocket, the referee (or players) must project each ball directly downward.

A ball is considered pocketed if it would fall into the pocket, and not pocketed if it would come to rest on the bed of the table. Balls are placed accordingly, and play continues.
Click to expand...
dr_dave said:
The rules on this situation were recently clarified. The balls are dropped into the pocket. See:
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Interesting that the video does not directly address what Fore Rail mentions above, which make sense because direct downward force won't pocket a ball that is still on the playing surface. I can imagine a scenario where the pockets were wide enough for two balls to be jammed together while still on the playing surface. What then?
 
OneHandedBreak said:
Interesting that the video does not directly address what Fore Rail mentions above, which make sense because direct downward force won't pocket a ball that is still on the playing surface. I can imagine a scenario where the pockets were wide enough for two balls to be jammed together while still on the playing surface. What then?
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If the resting point of a ball is on the playing surface (not hanging over the rim of the pocket), the ball remains in play.
 
dr_dave said:
If the resting point of a ball is on the playing surface (not hanging over the rim of the pocket), the ball remains in play.
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And what if the resting points of two balls that are jammed are on the surface of play? I can envision this happening where perhaps they can't be pocketed at all (not that this was the case for my friend).
 
OneHandedBreak said:
And what if the resting points of two balls that are jammed are on the surface of play? I can envision this happening where perhaps they can't be pocketed at all (not that this was the case for my friend).
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Without giving much thought to it, my snap thought it that it seems like play just continues since both balls are considered in play. The players will eventually need to either try to make one of the balls, hit one or both of them in an attempt to unjam them so they can be played later, or play safe off of them until such time that they become playable. If there comes a point where there are no other balls that are legal to hit and both players refuse to hit the two jammed balls at all, then if there is a three foul rule in effect then one of them is going to lose by three foul. If there are no other legal balls to hit, and both players refuse to hit the two jammed balls and there is no three foul rule in effect, then you follow the rules for a stalemate.
 
OneHandedBreak said:
And what if the resting points of two balls that are jammed are on the surface of play? I can envision this happening where perhaps they can't be pocketed at all (not that this was the case for my friend).
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Diamond pockets that are 4 1/2 inches allow two balls to be touching the pocket facing and frozen and on the playing surface (flat part of the slate). If you shoot directly at either ball hard, it will be forced into the facing and around the other ball. I'm not sure what happens to the non-target ball, but it might just sit there if the cue ball doesn't bump into it.

I think any pocket that has rubber pocket facings is going to allow one of the jammed balls to be pocketed.

In any case, those hypothetical balls are still in play, since they are on the flat playing surface.
 
There's several possible discussion points here. Bob Jewett is correct about "Jawed Balls." When the balls are touching the facings they are still on the table and not pocketed. They're still atop the slate and not pocketed. In this posting and picture, the balls are jammed in the pocket and not atop the slate. They were pocketed. Regarding the "5 Second Rule," is very difficult to explain and measure. When does the 5 seconds start? Back in the day when a player rose up from his/her shot and began to move away from the table, he was "relinquishing his inning." Anything that happened after that should be respoted. I had that happen in a One Pocket match recently concerning the cueball. My opponent shot and hung the cueball in the pocket. He got up from his shot and started to walk away when the cueball fell. It was not fair for me to call a foul so we respoted the cueball. I'd like to know the rule for golf if someone can explain it. I doubt there's no 5 second rule in golf?
 
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