Hiding your speed

trustyrusty said:
Since I have posted in a few "gambling" threads I thought I'd start this one to get a few more questions answered.

I know that hiding your true speed is a time honored tradition in billiards; my question is why? Is it to milk as much money out of an opponent as possible? Do you think playing all out, all the time will kill your action? Why is it that hustling is so revered in pool? Are the guys that have mastered this practice scared of an "even" match, therefore they try to never really show their true game? I'm not much of a gambler, nor will I ever be, but is it truly "gambling" when you set up matches based on your "shown" ability???

I know, I know, since "everyone" else does it, that evens things out....

I don't mind having to "pay" to play better players, but I think it's kinda funny how they try to disguise how much better they are. I'm not going to go chasing that money anyways, so why the act?? It must be a gambler thing, and I may never get it, but I thought I'd ask.

BTW, I am currently a 2.7 GHIN (golf handicap) and have never felt the need to lie about that either...lol :thumbup: Yes, I've run into the gambling sandbagger types in golf too... oh well! :wink:
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if you saw another thread i started you know what i think...... which is people don't like and even discourage good play. as some people noted things are getting better, but for all intents and purposes good players are really looked down upon and barred in many areas. this is why i got so mad when i saw the "support american pool, donate money here...." on AZ. i was like, screw you, ill support pool by supporting good players, not giving jihn schmidt entry fee (although not saying im against that, just not for me).

so, the answer is good players stalling is the fault of all the people who discourage good play, which is a LOT of people and players, whether you will admit it or not.
 
kryptonite9 said:
I think the point you are missing here is that you are willing to "donate" money to better players. I do the same thing all the time, I will play anyone, not ask for a spot if the price is right just to play. People like us are far and few in between. Everyone else is not willing to pay for play or donate to a better player to learn something. Unfortunately in pool halls today, it is necessary to hide something unless you want to make no money or grind it out against the best player in the room everynight. Try going into new pool room and beat the best player or even play the best player in the room even, and then try to get a $20 set against anyone else. Good luck, all your action is gone, people wont play you even with a huge spot. I admire your heart and desire I don't think you should change anything but players have to make money against the masses not the few who are ALWAYS willing to play.
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very well said kryptonite!
 
You can?t cheat an honest man, a great movie with W.C. Fields.




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just got home from work, and read the thread....lots of GREAT replies; thanks! I know that nowadays money is tight, but I guess I wish more folks would be willing to lose a few bucks to play really good opponents. I may be able to run a rack or two in a set of 8ball, but I like playing players who have the skill to take down a whole set without letting me see the table....it makes your chances at the table that much more important, and if I have to pay something for that kinda competition - it's well worth it to me.

If I only played against players of my caliber I think I'd get either bored, or complacent with my game. I don't want that to happen, and I love seeing things done at the table that I wouldn't have thought of in certain situations. It's like when Tiger Woods played St. Andrews (British Open) without hitting a wood for the last 3 days....I went and tried it at my home course the next week - no change in my scoring really (fewer birdies, but few bogeys too), but a great weapon to have in the arsenal when playing a very penial course set-up. Maybe I should just be asking to see more pool on TV...that'd help, and I wouldn't have to worry about the pros hiding their speed (to not show me something)....unless, of course, they're playing a big DOG and they put money on their opponent - LOL

Thanks again guys for all the replies.
 
memikey said:
Why do most pool players who hide their speed who post on here seem to assume that the majority of guys they beat won't realise they're hiding their speed?

Are there really that many idiot marks to go round or is much of this just wishful thinking and/or a 'creative' or romanticised description of what their pool gambling career is really like?
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I'd say a shitload of the latter.
MULLY
 
maybe we can learn a lot from the filipinos in this regard. in threads by jay or roy or any of the pros who've been to the philippines, they say that the players there play all out and not worry too muich about showing their speed or asking for weight. maybe that's why there are alot of good players there. what do you think?
 
??????????

Many a player has tried to hide his true speed only to play himself out of stroke. Then guess what happened? He went busted. Laying down a lemon an dropping back in gear is a talent unto itself............Greed has been the undoing of many a gambler.
Pinocchio
 
I'm not good enough to hide what speed I do have because I never know when it's gonna come.

As for gambling, back home I played a lot of ring 9ball up to 4players. $1 on the 5 / $2 on the 9. Not big money but none the less...money. Good players too, anyone of them could walk all over me at any given time. I always played for the experience and can say that that's where I gained my experience hoping to grab a buck or too back. Cheap lessons I always thought.

I was one to test myself also...I'd get one of these guys and play $5 racks every now and again just to see if I could get lucky or catch them on a bad day...(That was only on days when I got lucky on the roulette table or black jack the night before.)

Can't say I ever broke even....Simply drank a lot less.

Gambled for a couple of beers one time here in Poland and that's another story...
 
He should be proud

Scott Lee said:
Wow...You must be really proud that you beat up on a C player! Why didn't you show some heart, and continue playing off-handed. That might have made for a much fairer game! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott, he should be proud he is a c player so he must have shot at least his speed to win.
 
I find it interesting that some people cannot play a game like ppol without money being on the line. I find that many people who do gamble in pool cannot afford to lose the few dollars that are on the line. Hence, they try to tilt the game in some way for themselves. They do not consider this cheating. I believe this is why the game has developed over the years with a negative image.
I personally enjoy matching up with someone of my same skill level and playing for the enjoyment of competing.
 
I don't think that the person getting conned is necessarily greedy. If I think you and I are around the same level and we played for $$ to add something to the game that does not make me greedy. The greedy person is the person doing the hustling. He is cheating to gain an advantage and take my money. This not the same as the people getting conned in some of the movies mentioned here. The people in those movies like the sting are trying to hustle someone and they in turn are the ones being hustled. That is different from someone who thinks he is played a fair game.
 
you are right, two types of hustles

kaznj said:
I don't think that the person getting conned is necessarily greedy. If I think you and I are around the same level and we played for $$ to add something to the game that does not make me greedy. The greedy person is the person doing the hustling. He is cheating to gain an advantage and take my money. This not the same as the people getting conned in some of the movies mentioned here. The people in those movies like the sting are trying to hustle someone and they in turn are the ones being hustled. That is different from someone who thinks he is played a fair game.
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You are right of course, there are two types of hustles. One is aggressive where you locate the fish and make all the moves to catch him. In this case it may not be a case of the fish being greedy.

The other hustle is where you just dangle the bait and let greedy fish come to you, a passive hustle. Only the greedy take the bait. I did that for about ten years and made a very substantial income doing it. I still feel a little bad about the time or two I did an active hustle when I was a kid and didn't know better. The ten years of taking off would be hustlers doesn't bother me in the least.

Hu
 
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Samiel said:
You know, I don't think I've ever approached someone I didn't know and ask them to gamble. I've asked people I didn't know to join in a ring game though. Almost everyone that's ever asked me to gamble out of the blue was some champion looking for a quick buck. Once they see that you're not at their speed, they come around like vultures! I think this shows lack of heart.
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I agree 100%.
 
StevenPWaldon said:
Sometimes you can't even get a game if your true speed is known.

A few weeks ago I played some C-level semi-banger who approached me. The only reason he approached was because he thought he could beat me after watching me practice. What he didn't know is that I was practicing left-handed on a tight table. The guy would have stayed away had I been shooting normally. I thought it was sort of funny when to his surprise I switched hands and beat him so bad he didn't even want to play a second set.
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U sure beat up on that C-level player :cool: Silly thing about it is..if you would have been smart about it :rolleyes: you could have taken more money from him if you would have just played as a lefty :thumbup:
 
ftgokie said:
U sure beat up on that C-level player :cool: Silly thing about it is..if you would have been smart about it :rolleyes: you could have taken more money from him if you would have just played as a lefty :thumbup:
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if he'da been SMART about it, or SNEAKY about it? that's exactly what I'm talking about. Why not just say to the guy, "hey buddy, I'm just doing a little shooting offhanded....I guess I can play you this way, but I play MUCH better with my true shooting hand - which do you want?" If it were me....well, I probably wouldn't have approached him in the first place, but say I had; if he'd been honest like I stated above....I'd want to play him with his FULL game, not off-handed (even if I had a shot at him off-handed). Why is it so wrong to lose to a better player??? I'm not saying lose a couple of grand in one night just to rack, but play up to an amount you are willing to lose just to play. Gambling gets bad when you start playing for more than you're willing to lose anyway....that's why you shouldn't bet that much even if you think it's a lock!!!
 
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