Historic Cues. Do you have any?

[WildWing]

IMHO Any 100/200 etc.. cue is a milestone. Especially with the guys who have very low output...

However this cue sticks out in my mind because of a SBE. My friend comes in with cash and he is looking for a piece to put away. So at that time, this cue was 2500. We had a fancy floating spear ivory McDaniels, fancy , lotta ivory for 2500 also.

Against my recommendation he bought the McDaniels. He reminds me of this every time I talk to him. He couldn't get over the fanciness of the McD....

JV

Great piece of history there, Joe. It reminds me of the 1993 cue exhibition held just outside of Baltimore. Barry was there, and he had his first cue made for sale for $1,200, and a four point Balabushka for $2,500. His first was a four point Hoppe.

Those seemed like high prices at the time. Not today though. It would be an easy call.

All the best,
WW

 

[Type79]

I don't sell any of my cues, so there are no buyers. Nothing is for sale, nor will be. And I don't destroy anything.

I like to occasionally play with my Model D, and the separation at the buttsleeve was causing vibrations. I'm sure many cue repairmen have dealt with this situation.

As always, your advice is appreciated.

All the best,
WW

I can't understand the logic behind creating a thread entitled Historic Cues and then proceed to recommend modifying them. This is what gives license to owners without inexperience to do mods that ruin otherwise good cues.

 

[WildWing]

I don't recommend anything, and mine is not advice. I don't give license for anything. Repairing a vibration is not a modification. Many historic cues have been repaired over the years to get rid of vibrations and other faults. In this case, only one ring out of the six needed it. Please start another thread to discuss the merits of cue repairs.

And, by the way, "without inexperience," means experience. Thank you.

All the best,
WW

 

[Type79]

Any deviation from the original construction of the cue detracts from it's originality, reduces it's value and most importantly creates a poor precedent for others to do the same.

 

[skins]

Any deviation from the original construction of the cue detracts from it's originality, reduces it's value and most importantly creates a poor precedent for others to do the same.

Deviation or change from the orignal or proper construction PROCEDURE or TECHNIQUE?....Maybe...BUT proper repair or restoration that is needed, done by those who SHOULD do them, does NOT reduce value at all IMO. In fact it enhances the value.

"Those who should do them".. Well I guess that could be debatable depending on the cue..

 

[Type79]

"Proper" is the operative word.

 

[Chopdoc]

Preserve when possible.

Restore when necessary.

Repair when necessary.


If a cue will be played, any repairs may be something beyond restoration. It may simply be a matter of practicality. Up to the owner I would say.


Altering originality only increases the value of the remaining original cues in general anyway, this would be particularly true of something like a Palmer since numerous examples were produced. Even if you have only seen one example it is unlikely that other examples were not produced. There would be exceptions, of course.

Of course, a one off custom cue may have no peers and thus altering it means altering the one and only example. How that might alter the value would be up to any potential buyers. But if the cue is of substantial worth and notable, it probably won't alter the value much anyway, IMHO.

IMHO as well, a cue's place in history need not be altered by any restoration or repair efforts. Such things are only matters of perceived value. In the context of this thread such things merely become part of the history of that particular cue, IMHO.


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[Bigb'scues]

This is what can happen when a cue is "fixed" by someone without the proper knowledge
This was glued with CA and the fumes burned the acrylic window....

 

[Bank it]

Are we really going to take a great thread that I would LOVE to see more replies to, with an off track discussion on cue repairs? C'mon guys.

 

[WildWing]

Deviation or change from the orignal or proper construction PROCEDURE or TECHNIQUE?....Maybe...BUT proper repair or restoration that is needed, done by those who SHOULD do them, does NOT reduce value at all IMO. In fact it enhances the value.

"Those who should do them".. Well I guess that could be debatable depending on the cue..

Agree, especially with the term proper. And its important to know one's limitations. Now agree with Bank It, back on track, guys.

And, good advice for all, please pm for clarification before throwing out a flame.

All the best,
WW

 

[Chopdoc]

This is what can happen when a cue is "fixed" by someone without the proper knowledge
This was glued with CA and the fumes burned the acrylic window....

I have seen that done before.

As I believe was said, "improper". Very obviously damaged, not repaired.

Reminds me of the janitor that broke the beard off King Tut's mask. LOL! Did a helluva lot of damage trying to glue it back on to hide his deed.

Thankfully we are not talking about something like King Tut's beard here, but to those who loves cue it is offensive.

Something that would be less obvious to some would be a modern finish on a "restoration". I don't consider such a thing a restoration, though I may like it. In some cases I won't like it though. Depends on the cue.




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[HawaiianEye]

Preserve when possible.

Restore when necessary.

Repair when necessary.


If a cue will be played, any repairs may be something beyond restoration. It may simply be a matter of practicality. Up to the owner I would say.


Altering originality only increases the value of the remaining original cues in general anyway, this would be particularly true of something like a Palmer since numerous examples were produced. Even if you have only seen one example it is unlikely that other examples were not produced. There would be exceptions, of course.

Of course, a one off custom cue may have no peers and thus altering it means altering the one and only example. How that might alter the value would be up to any potential buyers. But if the cue is of substantial worth and notable, it probably won't alter the value much anyway, IMHO.

IMHO as well, a cue's place in history need not be altered by any restoration or repair efforts. Such things are only matters of perceived value. In the context of this thread such things merely become part of the history of that particular cue, IMHO.


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All my cues are to be played...I don't have a museum.

I prefer my cues that need to be repaired to remain as close as possible to the way they were originally, but if something has to be changed to make it playable, so be it.

In the case of really old cues, there sometimes have to be changes of some sort because the materials used in the original cue may no longer be available to be used.

 

[SmoothStroke]

Pic....2......

Very nice case

 

[WildWing]

Allen and Gus

At the outset I mentioned that cues owned and especially, played, by famous players are historic. I think, the holy grail of cues. The impact of Allen Hopkins on the billiard world is incalculable, given not only his professional playing record, but also his commentating on televised events as well as other endeavors such as the force behind the annual expo.

In the 70s and part of the 80s, Allen played with a Gus Szamboti cue, shown below. The cue has a fairly plain four point forearm, but fancier buttsleeve, with maple windows and barbell inlays inside and outside of the windows. My personal memory of this cue was Allen battling Mike Sigel for the straight pool title held in Philadelphia into the wee hours in the morning, I believe early 80s. I also remember this cue in various US Open nine ball events in Norfolk, often hosted in Barry B's own pool room.

The cue belongs to a close friend and fellow enthusiast, who wanted the pictures shown. I think you'll enjoy these.

All the best,
WW

 

[WildWing]

Allen and Gus

Just a couple more artifacts:

 

[WildWing]

Barry Szamboti's 500th Cue

I think it was Joe Van Buren who said a hundredth of a low volume, famous cue maker is historic. I would agree with that. For your viewing pleasure is Barry Szamboti's 500th cue, completed in the Spring of 2008. This cue belongs to a close friend of mine, who wanted Barry's work to be represented in this historic cue thread, especially since one of his father's cues, made for Allen Hopkins, was also recognized in this thread.

A few details on this cue, beyond that it is a fancy and rare Szamboti. First, it comes from a select piece of Indonesian Rosewood, with a dark streak that runs above Barry's name on the buttplate in an arc just below the joint. Barry made sure that the joint collar wood directly above had its own streak in the grain, so that the section at the top of the butt and the rosewood within the joint collar itself looked like one continuous piece of wood. You can see this in one of the photos. So Barry took the trouble of not just designing and matching inlays, but thinking through and matching how the wood grains of the cue would go together. Also, since this is Barry's 500th cue, the design contains five types of inlays (spears, barbells, diamonds, etc.) in groups of five.

Although this cue was made by Barry Szamboti, it also honors his father Gus by using shaft wood, veneer rings on the buttsleeve, and ivory from the stock of Gus Szamboti. In fact, the veneer rings themselves are from Gus's stock, not just the materials. My own take on this cue is that Barry wanted a unique barbell design in the forearm for this personal milestone cue, while honoring his father Gus by adding a classic Szamboti gunsight and diamond motif below the wrap. Hope you enjoy this cue, as well as the rest of the thread.

All the best,
WW

 

[WildWing]

Barry Szamboti's 500th Cue

And Barry with this magnificent cue, along with a custom Whitten case.

All the best,
WW

 

[tduncan]

And Barry with this magnificent cue, along with a custom Whitten case.

All the best,
WW

VERY NICE! Thanks for sharing that. A very unique design.

 

[WildWing]

Luther Lassiter's Cue

VERY NICE! Thanks for sharing that. A very unique design.

Thank you, Travis, I appreciate it. By the way, your Joss collection belongs in any historic cue thread, up to you what to show. They were made when the makers did it largely by hand.

Now, on to today's post, the cue of Luther Lassiter. Over the years of AZ, there has been tremendous chatter on what Lassiter's cue was, who had seen it, and of course, nobody ever had a picture of it. There were several cues, of course.

The cue below, I can tell you, is what Lassiter used largely, from the late 60s to the early 80s. This was the cue he used to defeat Eddie Taylor at my high school in 1967, Oxon Hill high school, Maryland, organized by the late Red Jones and Bill "Weenie Beanie" Staton. You already know Weenie Beanie, but you may not know that Red Jones was an Air Force Colonel, manning the Air Force desk at the White House in the 60s. He was also a pool enthusiast.

This was also the cue Lassiter used in the legends tournaments in Atlantic City, Harrah's in 1982, and the Claridge, in 1983. He used a different Bushka-apparent cue in Lake Kamiesha New York in 1984, when he lost to Jimmy Moore. Luther won in 1983. Mosconi won in 1982, with his famous Bushka.

Now, onto the cue. It looks Bushka, doesn't it? Or, does it? The first time I put this picture up, John Showman opined that it looked more like a Tad. I can't necessarily disagree with that, given the white ring above the buttsleeve. It has Bushka rings in the joint collars, which was not usual for Tads, but a few did have them. Maybe Luther asked for them? Or maybe it's a Bushka, as some think?

I know some other threads have come up on Lassiter's cue, with a plain four point cue, with obviously very little play. But if you've been around, you know this cue is the one he mostly played with. I wonder, where is it? Did his brother or family sell it? Does the remaining family still have it? Maybe the cue that won more nine-ball and straight pool matches combined than any other cue in history.

All the best,
WW

 

[Ken_4fun]

Gus and George

I guess I could make the argument that any of Gus' or George's cues could be considered historic cues.

Only issue is there are more Gus and George cues out there than they made originally.


Southwest? nope.

Ken