This logic is sound, and I wouldn't label it a bad idea. However if I've committed to a pot I'm 100% in. If going "pro-side" adds any level of difficulty to the shot. I wouldn't bother with it. Play to win, not with an element of 'what if'.
"Hit the pro side of the pocket" myth.
- Thread starter thenaturalpoolplayer
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Zerksies
Well-known member
I only know this is because when I miss, I have the tendency of over cutting the ball and leaving this kind of shape.
Something not explored is the message we are sending to our unconscious which is what fine tunes our shots. On a typical shot I think I want to pocket the ball and have the cue ball here for the next shot. I have a very clear idea of what I am trying to do. On these safe side shots I am thinking I want to pocket the ball or leave it safe and have the cue ball here. Now I have muddied the waters. Do I want to pocket the ball or play it safe? My mental eye can't see the object ball falling and bouncing back in a safety both.
We are making a difficult shot still harder when we reduce our aiming area and we are also introducing the point into play. Between the pocket and the nice bounce off of the rail is that evil point and unintended consequences if we hit it. Speaking for myself, playing for the "pro side" introduces that point into my mind when I would rather not be thinking about it.
All in all, trying to miss on the pro side if miss I do has reduced my chances of making the ball and has created unconscious confusion. I have significantly reduced my chances of achieving my goals.
Like you, I prefer to be 100% committed to a shot. Pocketing the ball, playing the safe. Whichever I choose I want to be completely invested in that result.
Hu
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I'm actually surprised there are so many interpretations of 'pro side'. I wonder how many of you, like me, thought yours was the only one? lol. To me, as in any other sport, the 'pro side' is the side pros will prefer to play to (and miss on). It is the 'right way' to play the shot bc it gives you the highest win probability overall in the long run. Consider it pool analytics.
To the commit to the shot guys, you do commit. You commit 100% to hitting this side of the pocket. If you hit the shot as you intend, you make it. If you mishit slightly, you either make it to the other side of the pocket (perhaps cut induced throw puts you there?), or you miss the pocket on the other side and the OB ends up in a position more favorable to you than if you had missed on the other side of the pocket.
So, if there is a side of the pocket to shoot at that will provide you benefits, like making room for CIT, leaving a miss in a favorable spot as opposed to missing on the other side, or whatever other little advantage you can get that raises your overall win percentage in the long run....that's the pro side bc that is the side pros will play as pros are expected to play the highest percentage 'right shot'.
To the commit to the shot guys, you do commit. You commit 100% to hitting this side of the pocket. If you hit the shot as you intend, you make it. If you mishit slightly, you either make it to the other side of the pocket (perhaps cut induced throw puts you there?), or you miss the pocket on the other side and the OB ends up in a position more favorable to you than if you had missed on the other side of the pocket.
So, if there is a side of the pocket to shoot at that will provide you benefits, like making room for CIT, leaving a miss in a favorable spot as opposed to missing on the other side, or whatever other little advantage you can get that raises your overall win percentage in the long run....that's the pro side bc that is the side pros will play as pros are expected to play the highest percentage 'right shot'.
I think this term is generally reserved not for high percentage cut shots but for long sharp cut shots that even very good players know they are more likely to undercut if they miss, if trying to center pocket the shot.
If you like the terminology better I can say commit to an outcome instead of commit to a shot. Purely terminology, my highest chance of success on tough shots is when I visualize the outcome before I bend over to shoot. I can't visualize two different outcomes without creating conflict in my mind. If I can't decide what I want to happen it is time to reconsider the shot.
My experience is that pro's don't try to do any in depth analysis during play. Not "if I play this shot a hundred times" but "what gives me the best chance of success at this moment". It can be argued that they should be focused on longer term results but there will never be another shot with exactly these conditions. The statistics don't tell that he has missed three tough cuts this session and hasn't missed a one rail bank. The pro knows though. If they have to shoot a tough cut or a routine crossbank to close out the match odds are they are going to ignore percentages and dance the last dance with the girl that brought them.
Hu
I don't believe that the pro side of the pocket lies inside the pocket at all.
The pro side applies to any shot where a miss on one side of the pocket offers much more defense than a miss on the other side of the pocket. The safer side is, to me, what constitutes the pro side, but it's either on the short rail or the long rail.
Where I differ with most others in this thread is that I don't feel one should favor the pro side in their aim, but only allow for it. In other words, where possible, play the cue ball in a way that offers defense on the pro side miss.
Aim for the dead center of the pocket but allow for a pro side miss when doing so comes without a cost.
It's no myth when interpreted this way.
The pro side applies to any shot where a miss on one side of the pocket offers much more defense than a miss on the other side of the pocket. The safer side is, to me, what constitutes the pro side, but it's either on the short rail or the long rail.
Where I differ with most others in this thread is that I don't feel one should favor the pro side in their aim, but only allow for it. In other words, where possible, play the cue ball in a way that offers defense on the pro side miss.
Aim for the dead center of the pocket but allow for a pro side miss when doing so comes without a cost.
It's no myth when interpreted this way.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I agree even with committing to an outcome. It's just that the outcome I would commit to is making the ball to say the left side of the pocket. The reasoning behind that being that when I don't hit it exactly, my next most common dispersion will result in either a make in the other part of the pocket or a miss on the correct side.
Pros may not be doing much calculating at the table, but that's just because they shot the shots 1000s of times and know which ones to choose. Overall, they shoot the right shots, the right way. And because they do so, we have a 'pro side'.
This is why I shy away from the common idea or opinion of what the "pro side" of the pocket or shot really means.
Pros do not think, "Just in case I miss, I'll overcut (or undercut) this shot". Lol. That does not make sense, or at the very least it is not realistic.
Shooting the ball into the most acceptable portion of the pocket is realistic. It just happens to be that when doing this, if the ob misses the pocket, the chance of not leaving your opponent an easy shot is more likely. But that doesn't mean that playing the "pro side" is done specifically to leave your opponent bad if you miss. That's just a convenient bonus in case you do miss. It's not the reason for shooting the shot that way.
The reason for shooting the shot that way (to the pro side) is to give you the best chance of pocketing the ball. That is what makes sense. Any fortunate result (like leaving a tough shot for your opponent if you miss) is a nice bonus, but the primary goal is to play the ob into the most accessible portion/side of the pocket.
Most amateurs are not accurate enough to pinpoint a specific portion of the pocket, hence the term "pro side". Amateurs tend to hit certain cut shots a little too fat, and others a little too thin. Depending on the shot, the ob either misses the pocket, rattles out of the pocket, or hangs up in the pocket, leaving your opponent easy. That's the result of not aiming for the pro side of the pocket.
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All the more reason not to bother factoring in "pro-side". If the shot already is naturally low percentage, why muddy the waters even more...? If I were to bother with pro-side reasoning it would only be on those higher percentage shot.
We use the same logic to come to different conclusions and ultimately shoot the ball at the same location. When cutting the ball I know there are several things that can make the ball go long, like it has been undercut. Therefore my next most common dispersion isn't on both sides of where I am shooting for but on the longer, undercut, side of the shot line. While I might send a really errant shot on the overcut side of the shot line maybe one time in ten, this is very unlikely.
While we are both firmly entrenched in our reasons why we try to place the object ball into the same area of the pocket, I find it funny thinking that if somebody is commentating on my game they might say I missed it on the pro side. I see it differently, I really dogged the shot bad! Got lucky.
Hu
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
i
I dunno, seems to me that on the shots u are more likely to miss is exactly when u would want to manage the miss to leave a favorable position.
Yes, that’s obvious to some of us.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I thought so. Thats why I've been so surprised by the responses here. Im sure we've all heard it a million times but, "It's not what u make, it's what you leave". Dropping ur make % a bit while also drastically dropping ur sellout %, is going to be a net positive for ur win%. The idea that pros would pay no mind to the leave they hand over to their opponent and just have that as a happy coincidental bonus is crazy to me. Pros play the shot that gives them the highest chance of winning. Managing the miss on a missable shot is a winning play that nets more racks than simply maxing out how often you make that ball.
That's a superb post.
I'll throw in my two cents. I agree with WobblyStroke %100. The times I pay attention to the "pro side" usually involves a difficult shot and almost always a bank. Sometimes I just straight commit to the shot and others I play a pro side. depends on the situation. Mostly playing One Pocket where I am shooting a bank shot that is going off the side rails to my pocket. I will play to make it but I adjust my aim a little to guarantee that I won't bank it long into the end rail and allow my opponent a return bank. In rotation play usually the same thing but so that I don't leave the OB hanging near the pocket but left on the short rail. Since nobody is dialed in %100 on any bank shot I am not guaranteed to make it even if I focus totally on the shot. It's still an estimate. So I estimate on the "pro side"
Nobody but a knucklehead would disagree with this post as written. However, having sat in design consultation meetings I have to question your valuations. Since I was already to the edge of the pocket overcutting the ball, I am now aiming at the point. Consequences unknown if the shot goes as I aimed it. I can't say that this is lowering my pocketing percentage just a bit, more like a bunch of bits. I have to miss to have a predictable positive outcome.
The next question is what is "drastically dropping ur sellout %" My sellout percentage and my pocketing percentage are inversely related. The more I move my aimpoint to reduce the possibility of selling out by hitting a rail, I also reduce the possibility of pocketing the ball by a like amount or greater. The best way to drastically drop my sellout percentage is to pocket the ball. In the hours considering this thread I have decided to move the object ball's path which would usually be up against the point over towards the center of the pocket a quarter inch or so when aiming. Not that I am that accurate much of the time but I know that instead of being up against the point I am out in free space that quarter inch, at least in the plan.
You are going to have a hard time persuading me that you can change the aim line a bit and change the sellout percentage drastically. If anything, moving away from the "pro side" and more towards center pocket probably increases my chances of pocketing the ball and keeping control of the table. We have a handful of variables to consider that we haven't talked about yet. However, I am certain that pocketing the ball will have a higher value than a safety the greatest percentage of the time. The discussion in this thread seems to place equal value on pocketing the ball and the safety and they aren't equal.
Hu
This guy may be the dumbest F of all dumb Fs.
Dude, try playing good players for real money, so there's consequences for selling out. You'd eventually see.