"Hit the pro side of the pocket" myth.

[BC21]

Yes but if he wasn't aiming for the "pro side" he would have made the shot and probably won the game. I bet the stats on making the ball and winning the game are better versus missing the ball on the "pro side" and leaving your opponent tough. It's word play really...dumb. The ONLY reason to slightly over cut a ball is on a soft (1/2-3/4 cut for those of you that can't visualize without fractions) cut to compensate for push. But this adjustment should be subconscious not deliberate.

Not necessarily. Aiming for the pro side, as far as I'm concerned, is aiming to the most accessible portion of the pocket, which could be closer to the left facing or right facing depending on the specific shot. This gives you the best opportunity to pocket the ball.

Leaving the ob tough (in case you miss) is irrelevant when your primary focus is on pocketing the ball. But of course there are shots where you aren't confident that the ball will drop into the pocket, and so you might play it 2 ways - try to pocket it but also leave a tough shot for your opponent in case you miss. Nevertheless, with pros, most shots are played with 100% focus and confidence in pocketing the ball as cleanly as possible. That means aiming for the pro side. And any lucky leave that happens to occur if the ball is missed is simply a bonus.

This sketch shows 3 shots where aiming on the "pro side" is important. If the ob hits the red it could hang up or rattle out. The best chance of pocketing the ball cleanly is to aim for the side/portion of the pocket away from the red. Like I said, it's not about leaving the ob tough, it's about giving yourself the best opportunity to pocket the ball. Of course, on a Valley barbox this pro side theory is irrelevant because the ball funnels into the pocket at some pretty wide miss angles.

 

[Black-Balled]

Yes but if he wasn't aiming for the "pro side" he would have made the shot and probably won the game.

That cannot be proved, only claimed.

Again, the successes of others have demonstrated how those successes became successful and successors would be best served by following along...in succession.

Refuse to deny fact all you want. It does not change the world, it only demonstrates your bullheaded ignorance of reality.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Nevertheless, with pros, most shots are played with 100% focus and confidence in pocketing the ball as cleanly as possible. That means aiming for the pro side. And any lucky leave that happens to occur if the ball is missed is simply a bonus.

This right here is where most disagreement in the thread revolves around. I guess we won't get an actual answer unless a few top pros chime in since we are only nitpicking intention and not actually debating whether or not they shoot at a particular side on some shots...which they obv do.

It is just hard for me to imagine top pros treating the potential leave for their opponent as an afterthought. Part of what makes the chosen side the percentage play is the leave for your opponent on unsuccessful attempts. The lower percentage the shot, the more the miss needs to be managed. I'd posit there are plenty of shots in which it is better to trade a slightly lower potting percentage for a much lower sellout percentage...which is possible when the sellouts only come off of misses on one side.

For amateurs with a lower pot% and greater dispersion of misses, playing against other amateurs that aren't just gonna make a bunch of table length banks for an out, I would go as far as to say that managing the miss should be the priority on those thin shots we usually hear 'pro-side' refer to on TV. They (we) should probably favor the pro-side so much that we are aiming to miss allowing for CIT and the almost always thick hit miss to make the ball for us as a bonus. That bonus will come quite often and if we are like 50/50 to make or miss, by shooting this way we still probably stay around 50/50 but with very few sellout side misses compared to the majority of the 50% of attempts that would tend to miss to that side. Maybe we should call pro-side, the smart amateur side

 

[thenaturalpoolplayer]

Not necessarily. Aiming for the pro side, as far as I'm concerned, is aiming to the most accessible portion of the pocket, which could be closer to the left facing or right facing depending on the specific shot. This gives you the best opportunity to pocket the ball.

Leaving the ob tough (in case you miss) is irrelevant when your primary focus is on pocketing the ball. But of course there are shots where you aren't confident that the ball will drop into the pocket, and so you might play it 2 ways - try to pocket it but also leave a tough shot for your opponent in case you miss. Nevertheless, with pros, most shots are played with 100% focus and confidence in pocketing the ball as cleanly as possible. That means aiming for the pro side. And any lucky leave that happens to occur if the ball is missed is simply a bonus.

This sketch shows 3 shots where aiming on the "pro side" is important. If the ob hits the red it could hang up or rattle out. The best chance of pocketing the ball cleanly is to aim for the side/portion of the pocket away from the red. Like I said, it's not about leaving the ob tough, it's about giving yourself the best opportunity to pocket the ball. Of course, on a Valley barbox this pro side theory is irrelevant because the ball funnels into the pocket at some pretty wide miss angles.
View attachment 677787

I don't understand the "aiming" part of pool. There is no aiming in pool. What you think you are doing when you are "aiming" is actually just undoing what your body and brain have already figured out. It's like reading. You actually consume entire sentences at a glance but then deliberately go back and read them word for word. Speed reading will break this habit...you have to break the habit in pool as well.

Your sketch just shows where you should be "aiming" on the pocket for any shot. When they talk about "pro side" they are referring to if you miss atleast you miss on the over cut versus under cut.

 

[BC21]

I don't understand the "aiming" part of pool. There is no aiming in pool. What you think you are doing when you are "aiming" is actually just undoing what your body and brain have already figured out. It's like reading. You actually consume entire sentences at a glance but then deliberately go back and read them word for word. Speed reading will break this habit...you have to break the habit in pool as well.

Your sketch just shows where you should be "aiming" on the pocket for any shot. When they talk about "pro side" they are referring to if you miss atleast you miss on the over cut versus under cut.

Aiming the cb to pocket the ob is definitely a learned/developed skill. And, like reading, once you get good at it and you've done it enough (successfully repeated the same shots over and over and over) you begin to automatically recognize where the cb needs to be in order to pocket the ball. But that doesn't mean you're not aiming.

When you look at where you think the cb needs to go in order to pocket the ob, and you align your body and stroke to what feels like the proper alignment to make that happen, you are indeed "aiming" the shot.

Anyhow, reading is only visually similar to aiming in pool. It's not a good comparison, because it does not involve body mechanics and fine motor skills.

As far as the definition of "pro side", that's a matter of opinion. And your opinion is that overcutting the ball on purpose is the definition of "pro side". I realize that opinion has been built upon and reinforced by pool commentators for years now. But that definition makes zero sense to me, and, according to your 1st post in this thread, it makes no sense to you either.

What does make sense is considering that the "pro side" is simply the correct or best side of the pocket to play the ob into most of the time. It's not the best because of the "what if I miss" factor, but because it's the most sure way to pocket the ball. When you play for the pro side you increase your chances of pocketing more shots, and it just happens to be that if you miss the shot on that side of the pocket (the pro side), there's a good likelihood you'll leave not leave a hanger for your opponent.

 

[BC21]

I find it odd that so many players hear a commentator say, "At least he missed it on the pro side", and they think that means the pro player purposely over cut the ball just in case they might miss it.

What really happened was the pro player was aiming for the prime/best portion of the pocket, and they missed to that side of the pocket. The miss could've very well landed on the other side of that portion of the pocket and the ob would've rattled and hung up in the hole. Pro's do that also, even when they're aiming for the "pro side" of the pocket. The only difference between the two misses is that one misses on the pro side of the pocket and the other doesn’t, and no special overcut or "what if" thinking came into play.

 

[ShootingArts]

I find it odd that so many players hear a commentator say, "At least he missed it on the pro side", and they think that means the pro player purposely over cut the ball just in case they might miss it.

What really happened was the pro player was aiming for the prime/best portion of the pocket, and they missed to that side of the pocket. The miss could've very well landed on the other side of that portion of the pocket and the ob would've rattled and hung up in the hole. Pro's do that also, even when they're aiming for the "pro side" of the pocket. The only difference between the two misses is that one misses on the pro side of the pocket and the other doesn’t, and no special overcut or "what if" thinking came into play.

One of the nice things about overcutting the ball from center pocket is that you have roughly doubled the margin on the side most misses would have occurred. Few pro's are going to hugely miss a shot so a lot of those misses that undercut are now pocketed into the extra inch on that side of the pocket.

More pocketed balls, less chance of jawing a ball, the chances of leaving your opponent tough if not an out and out safety, all come into play when we overcut a ball. There might be something to say about aiming at the point. Problem is, Murphy "helps out" and you are likely to hit the point! Not saying that is where the shot always goes but I think aiming to miss the point on the overcut side of the pocket by about a quarter to three-eighth of an inch is probably the best place to try to put the object ball on most of these shots when playing nine and ten ball. If the shot is really tough nothing wrong with playing a different shot or all in on the safety too.

Hu

 

[The_JV]

I dunno, seems to me that on the shots u are more likely to miss is exactly when u would want to manage the miss to leave a favorable position.

I'll respond to this comment because it's the one that doesn't pass off personal opinion as obvious fact...lol

There comes a time when your competition reaches a level when you're fortunate to have a return trip to the table, if a trip at all. The skills of your opponent should weigh into your decision to potentially turn over the table. This whole defacto 2 way style of play might not be in your best interest.

Now I don't mean to imply that playing a shot with a secondary outcome is a bad choice. What I'm saying is if the 'potential' secondary outcome is making the shot more difficult to the point that your likely hood for success falls below normal for the situation then you need to re-evaluate the approach. Everyone in this thread assumes that the shot with a designed secondary safe will indeed be safe. Just like you may miss the shot, you may also miss the safe leave. In a case wherein you're shooting the money ball. All you done is hopefully given your opponent a less than desirable free swing. IMO, you're better off to commit to a choice rather than try to walk on the top of the fence while leaning one to side.

Speaking for myself, when I play "a thin cut pro side" what I'm actually doing is playing that cut purposely thick and then applying a small amount of inside english. Now most within this thread that are poopoo'ing on my take of the value of 'pro side' are also terrified of inside english when not absolutely necessary, so this may add some context for you on the varying opinions. However it is the best approach for this style of shot imo.

To each their own, and there's a time and place for everything. However, the average player is garbage, and the better than average aren't very good either. I see more missed shots and corresponding bad safe plays because of people chasing the "2 way". The vast majority of players simply bite off way more than they should. If and when someone breaks through the .900 straight potting success rate then I might suggest complicating things to gain an advantage. Until then, they're only hurting themselves.

 

[The_JV]

Nevertheless, with pros, most shots are played with 100% focus and confidence in pocketing the ball as cleanly as possible. That means aiming for the pro side. And any lucky leave that happens to occur if the ball is missed is simply a bonus.

Absolutely agree... Speaking for only myself. When I'm playing "pro side". All I'm actually doing is my routine of aiming thick and squirting to thin. That's the way I always play those shots. Missing "pro side" has nothing to do with it. It's a just a fortunate circumstance if I aim too thin or 'over squirt'. I handle the variables in a manner that lowers the odds of hitting the shots thick. Nothing more...

 

[ShootingArts]

Absolutely agree... Speaking for only myself. When I'm playing "pro side". All I'm actually doing is my routine of aiming thick and squirting to thin. That's the way I always play those shots. Missing "pro side" has nothing to do with it. It's a just a fortunate circumstance if I aim too thin or 'over squirt'. I handle the variables in a manner that lowers the odds of hitting the shots thick. Nothing more...

My posts run long at best. I think I mentioned a few times that the incidental safety might not happen overcutting the ball. Then as you say so accurately in the post before, a safety depends a lot on your opponent. A safety at even a moderately advanced amateur level is going to be shoved down your throat playing a monster player. Of course that doesn't have to happen many times with a stranger before I readjust my ideas concerning their speed!

Hu

 

[The_JV]

A safety at even a moderately advanced amateur level is going to be shoved down your throat playing a monster player.

definitely... So if a player is stepping in over his weight class, or just needs to establish themselves in a match. Committing 100% to the pot rather than sweat the 2 way is the smarter move imo. You don't get to slide the bead on your string if your opponent wins the rack because of your weak assed safety....lol.

You could extend that methodology to players of equal spd as well but your odds of benefiting from poor safeties is exponential as you play lower on the food chain.

 

[WobblyStroke]

definitely... So if a player is stepping in over his weight class, or just needs to establish themselves in a match. Committing 100% to the pot rather than sweat the 2 way is the smarter move imo. You don't get to slide the bead on your string if your opponent wins the rack because of your weak assed safety....lol.

You could extend that methodology to players of equal spd as well but your odds of benefiting from poor safeties is exponential as you play lower on the food chain.

Ye, I alluded to this as well in my last post, going as far as suggesting that the 'pro-side' may need to be renamed the smart-amateur side as those 'safeties' will really only wonk on amateurs any decent percentage of the time while still leaving u as quite a dog vs a top player. I get what you guys are saying about only maxing out pot% with a disregard for leave, esp at the pro level, but at the level most of us play at and our regular opponents, considering the leave is quite a benefit, not a hindrance.

What a civil, informative, thread. Must be the Holidays.