Hollywood Billiards and TIGHT Pockets

[Pizza Bob]

Not to rehash an old subject, but……..

Last week, I had the opportunity to play at Hollywood Billiards with, our own, (Chris) Tate (he beat me like a rented mule – don’t get excited PETA, it’s just an expression). We played downstairs on a table recently revamped by Ernesto. I don’t think that I have ever seen Simonis stretched so tight. He also extended the cushions (not shimmed) to make 4” corner pocket openings. Truly a superior job. Chris told me that this is the way all the tables are going to be done.

Let me tell you, I have played on triple-shimmed tables that had larger pocket openings than this table had. You couldn’t even START two balls in the pocket opening. Very intimidating. To Ernesto’s credit, they did drop clean – very few rattles, like you get on a shimmed table.

Don’t you think that HB is “shooting themselves in the foot” by having all tables recovered/rebuilt to this spec? My take on owning a pool room is that you don’t get rich off the “players”. Aside from food & drink, you need to attract the recreational/date player clientele. I would think that this would frustrate that large segment of your customer base, to the point where a sizeable number will not return.

My feeling is that you have to have some tables set-up as outlined above, to cater to the true aficionados of the game. But the majority should be set-up with pocket openings on the larger side of the BCA spec, to encourage recreational/date players to continue to play and perhaps take an interest in the game beyond just recreation. To set them all up with 4” pockets is counter-productive.

While I enjoyed playing on them (admittedly poorly), I can’t believe that these would be good for business in the long run. Your opinions, please.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[JoeyInCali]

The recreational players who play make your own rules 8 ball wouldn't even notice if there were only 4 pockets in the table.
The tables upstairs have looser pockets.
But, imo, HB's pockets are way too tight. Hard Times, Bellflower's pockets redone my tablemechanic here is more honest imo. It's around 4.5" or a little less.
Hollywood and Shooters ( tournament room ) have almost the same pockets. Both are brutal.

 

[deadstroke32]

Not to rehash an old subject, but……..

Last week, I had the opportunity to play at Hollywood Billiards with, our own, (Chris) Tate (he beat me like a rented mule – don’t get excited PETA, it’s just an expression). We played downstairs on a table recently revamped by Ernesto. I don’t think that I have ever seen Simonis stretched so tight. He also extended the cushions (not shimmed) to make 4” corner pocket openings. Truly a superior job. Chris told me that this is the way all the tables are going to be done.

Let me tell you, I have played on triple-shimmed tables that had larger pocket openings than this table had. You couldn’t even START two balls in the pocket opening. Very intimidating. To Ernesto’s credit, they did drop clean – very few rattles, like you get on a shimmed table.

Don’t you think that HB is “shooting themselves in the foot” by having all tables recovered/rebuilt to this spec? My take on owning a pool room is that you don’t get rich off the “players”. Aside from food & drink, you need to attract the recreational/date player clientele. I would think that this would frustrate that large segment of your customer base, to the point where a sizeable number will not return.

My feeling is that you have to have some tables set-up as outlined above, to cater to the true aficionados of the game. But the majority should be set-up with pocket openings on the larger side of the BCA spec, to encourage recreational/date players to continue to play and perhaps take an interest in the game beyond just recreation. To set them all up with 4” pockets is counter-productive.

While I enjoyed playing on them (admittedly poorly), I can’t believe that these would be good for business in the long run. Your opinions, please.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

I like tables like that, thay make u bear down more .And slow down the lose strokes..
we have one here in in Augusta and i never played on it but in new york u can find a shimed table anywere....i love those better then any table....

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Not to rehash an old subject, but……..

Last week, I had the opportunity to play at Hollywood Billiards with, our own, (Chris) Tate (he beat me like a rented mule – don’t get excited PETA, it’s just an expression). We played downstairs on a table recently revamped by Ernesto. I don’t think that I have ever seen Simonis stretched so tight. He also extended the cushions (not shimmed) to make 4” corner pocket openings. Truly a superior job. Chris told me that this is the way all the tables are going to be done.

Let me tell you, I have played on triple-shimmed tables that had larger pocket openings than this table had. You couldn’t even START two balls in the pocket opening. Very intimidating. To Ernesto’s credit, they did drop clean – very few rattles, like you get on a shimmed table.

Don’t you think that HB is “shooting themselves in the foot” by having all tables recovered/rebuilt to this spec? My take on owning a pool room is that you don’t get rich off the “players”. Aside from food & drink, you need to attract the recreational/date player clientele. I would think that this would frustrate that large segment of your customer base, to the point where a sizeable number will not return.

My feeling is that you have to have some tables set-up as outlined above, to cater to the true aficionados of the game. But the majority should be set-up with pocket openings on the larger side of the BCA spec, to encourage recreational/date players to continue to play and perhaps take an interest in the game beyond just recreation. To set them all up with 4” pockets is counter-productive.

While I enjoyed playing on them (admittedly poorly), I can’t believe that these would be good for business in the long run. Your opinions, please.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

I visited Hollywood Billiards last fall and all the tables were shimmed (tight). Are you telling me that they have plans to make all the tables even tighter than they already are? I mean, they know their clients better than I would but here on the eastcoast, that would be a nice way to completely kill your business. You might as well get rid of the pockets and play 3-cushion!

 

[deadstroke32]

I visited Hollywood Billiards last fall and all the tables were shimmed (tight). Are you telling me that they have plans to make all the tables even tighter than they already are? I mean, they know their clients better than I would but here on the eastcoast, that would be a nice way to completely kill your business. You might as well get rid of the pockets and play 3-cushion!

There was a time tight pockets were easy to find jus look for the table the only guy in the room would stand by and say lets play here,,,
Look out for the hook ( Chealsa billiards)Once open now closeed i miss table 13 .......

 

[T411]

For a poolhall I do not think that I would have all or even most of my tables this tight but for my house, for sure. All other tables are like shooting in the ocean.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

There was a time tight pockets were easy to find jus look for the table the only guy in the room would stand by and say lets play here,,,
Look out for the hook ( Chealsa billiards)Once open now closeed i miss table 13 .......

Yeah, table 13 was a trip! You're right, there aren't that many in New York City anymore. I wish I could say the bangers on Saturday night wouldn't notice but it's more than that. Tight pocket tables are just bad for business. If people don't play well at your joint yet play well at other places, they'll just go there without thinking about it.

 

[JohnnyP]

I was watching the rerun of the '97 match between Fong Pang Chou and Oliver Ortman on ESPN Classic last week.

I think it was on an Olhausen table, but the pocket facings were not cut parallel. They were wider at the opening than at rear of the pocket.

In one game, Fong Pang hit a good shot on the five ball, but it didn't fall. It hit the far facing but didn't drop, because the facing was angled out.

Allen Hopkins just commented on "how tight these Olhausens are".

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I was watching the rerun of the '97 match between Fong Pang Chou and Oliver Ortman on ESPN Classic last week.

I think it was on an Olhausen table, but the pocket facings were not cut parallel. They were wider at the opening than at rear of the pocket.

In one game, Fong Pang hit a good shot on the five ball, but it didn't fall. It hit the far facing but didn't drop, because the facing was angled out.

Allen Hopkins just commented on "how tight these Olhausens are".

Yes, the way pockets are cut will have an impact on what it will accept. Parallel pocket facings are best for rail shots but not so good for any shot aimed for the back of the pocket.

 

[cheemagun]

Allen Hopkins just commented on "how tight these Olhausens are".

LMAO he is soooo fucking boring.

 

[stolz2]

I was watching the rerun of the '97 match between Fong Pang Chou and Oliver Ortman on ESPN Classic last week.

I think it was on an Olhausen table, but the pocket facings were not cut parallel. They were wider at the opening than at rear of the pocket.

In one game, Fong Pang hit a good shot on the five ball, but it didn't fall. It hit the far facing but didn't drop, because the facing was angled out.

Allen Hopkins just commented on "how tight these Olhausens are".

I have seen players in this situation have to choose incorect shots to try and get out. Simply because the pockets angle out like this. And they know the shot will radle even if on correct pockets it would not.

Mack

 

[Jimmy M.]

Hollywood Billiards has a sort of trendy atmosphere with a full bar, etc. They're always fairly busy, from what I've seen. I highly doubt that the new pocket size will kill anything. Too much is being made of pocket size. The average, recreational player won't know the difference. In all honesty, when they miss a ball, they miss it really bad. They're not going to think, "Damnit! I would have made that ball if the pockets weren't so tight!" After all, we ARE talking about the same group of people who say things like, "I play better when I'm drunk."

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hollywood Billiards has a sort of trendy atmosphere with a full bar, etc. They're always fairly busy, from what I've seen. I highly doubt that the new pocket size will kill anything. Too much is being made of pocket size. The average, recreational player won't know the difference. In all honesty, when they miss a ball, they miss it really bad. They're not going to think, "Damnit! I would have made that ball if the pockets weren't so tight!" After all, we ARE talking about the same group of people who say things like, "I play better when I'm drunk."

I think the owner had the pockets tightened to eliminate Hal Houle's deciples from coming in.
Here come the HH squadron led by Drivermaker.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Hollywood Billiards has a sort of trendy atmosphere with a full bar, etc. They're always fairly busy, from what I've seen. I highly doubt that the new pocket size will kill anything. Too much is being made of pocket size. The average, recreational player won't know the difference. In all honesty, when they miss a ball, they miss it really bad. They're not going to think, "Damnit! I would have made that ball if the pockets weren't so tight!" After all, we ARE talking about the same group of people who say things like, "I play better when I'm drunk."

Listen, when people are pocketing balls, they're more likely to stay because pocketing balls is fun. It's really that simple. If they're missing, the drinks better be awesome! I mean, I don't bowl but if I kept throwing them into the gutter because it was a "tight lane", I'd leave after one game and never bowl again!

 

[vagabond]

I love Hollywood Billiards.I love those tables.The owner is a pool player of B+/A level player plus he is a Lawyer. He knows what he is doing with his investment.
Vagabond

 

[sjm]

Having every table set to 4" is nothing short of incredibly stupid.

Pool is primarily for the recreational player, not for the top player. Having a few supertight tables to accommodate the handful of very serious players is fine, but the recreational player's business wll eventually be lost if he/she doesn't enjoy some measure of success while playing.

Asking "C" players and lower to play on 4" pockets is the same as asking the 25-handicapper to play the championship tees at Pebble Beach under US Open conditions. For every 25-handicapper that would really enjoy the challenge, there would be 1,000 that would pull their own hair out playing golf under those conditions.

I really feel sorry for all recreational players who play at Hollywood Billiards, for pool is about to become less recreational and more frustrating for them.

 

[pete lafond]

I have seen players in this situation have to choose incorect shots to try and get out. Simply because the pockets angle out like this. And they know the shot will radle even if on correct pockets it would not.

Mack

I posted a forum topic some time ago "Pool halls that don't like customers" or something to that effect. The table mechanic in our room did the same. The difference is that he said that he did not shim the pockets. What he did was put in his home made pocket faces that are thick and have more bounce. This changed the game, even more so because these were a custom job and were all inconsistent.

I enjoy tight pockets but a few pockets are very unfair. Just as you said, you have to play shots a little different at times. Three pockets will not take a firm shot up-rail - period. You can hit a cue ball inside the pocket and it will bounce out. I do not like buckets, but I do like fair pockets.

In general it is my opinion that pool halls should limit shimmed tables to just a few.

 

[vagabond]

I really feel sorry for all recreational players who play at Hollywood Billiards, for pool is about to become less recreational and more frustrating for them.

Hi SJM,
On the contrary,the customers of the place seem to be enjoying.
The owner, besides being a good pool player, is a Lawyer in iternational law.He knows how to safe guard his investment.I love that place.Cheers
Vagabond

 

[sjm]

Hi SJM,
On the contrary,the customers of the place seem to be enjoying.
The owner, besides being a good pool player, is a Lawyer in iternational law.He knows how to safe guard his investment.I love that place.Cheers
Vagabond

Well, Vagabond, I'd certainly like to be wrong on this particular occasion. My observation over the years suggested a different result was likely, but I wish every poolroom proprietor success. Sometimes, my being wrong isn't such a bad thing, is it? Thanks for your post.

 

[pete lafond]

Hi SJM,
On the contrary,the customers of the place seem to be enjoying.
The owner, besides being a good pool player, is a Lawyer in iternational law.He knows how to safe guard his investment.I love that place.Cheers
Vagabond

It sounds like someone did a fantastic job shimming if everyone is enjoying.