Holy Nightmare, Batman!

[TheOne]

My observations from the last week or so:

Yes its hot but the venue is fine for fans but I think it would be very hot if I where playing. The venue overall is a big dissapointment and nearly very player Ive spoken too has said it was better in Taipei and even better setup in Cardif.

The food at the venue sucks and its true that few people in Kaohsiung speak any Egnlish or are too shy to try. You have to carry bits of paper around with as we like to call them "squiggles" on them, eg. hotel, venue, pool hall, pub, another pub, broth...err you get the idea

As far as the crowd goes, yes they cheer like mad when one of their guys wins a frame and loader a match. BUT I watched Davis play a local and the crowd cheered Davis quite loudly everytime he won a frame. I would also say that Earl is a huge draw and in general the crowd tend to be on his side. One guy was standing on his seat with his fist in the air a few times when it looked like Earl might come back against Martel last night! (He was a local and like me prob had money riding on Earl lol)

Some funny stories about Earl though. He was playing my mate Lee Chenman and Earl hooks Lee, Lee narrowly tries to escape but misses, ball in hand. Earl walks to the table and says "nice try" and Lee replies "Thanks". Earl stops in his tracks looking shocked and says "I've played Efren around 300 games and he never said thanks when I said good shot, no pool player ever says thanks, your a nice guy!" It was pretty funny and from that point on they were both chatting away throughout the match. At one point though the ref actually told Earl that he wasn't allowed to speak to Lee, at which point he suggested they should both sue him lol.

Also once when Earl was just having a quite moment he started talking to himself after he had asked lee if he saw that souquet had just lost in the match the before. Earl starts muttering to himself..."Souquet, he's a turtle, a sea tutrle, chuckle chuckle" He put a strange voice on and it was so funny. I would say though that Earl has been pretty good and pretty funny at times. He might have lost the plot and his game is def not what it was but he was good value and I think the WPC was better with him there for sure. Oh somebody told me that during one match playing a local player he started walking around the table like a robot, muttering "theyre all clones!!!"

But like SJM, take nothing away from the Taiwanese, they dominated the qualifiers and Im tipping they will have 3 out of 4 of the semi finalists. I had some problems with a local ref in the qualifiers, at one point he (the ref!) came over when I was losing and said "riley 6:2 down" and started laughing. I actually went over to him and said I can't beleive you did that, I'm losing and your laughing mid-match! I didn't break my cue down, I won 7:6 (but then I got rolled next match lol!)



LOL

 

[Celtic]

Oh somebody told me that during one match playing a local player he started walking around the table like a robot, muttering "theyre all clones!!!"

That is actually hilarious.

I had some problems with a local ref in the qualifiers, at one point he (the ref!) came over when I was losing and said "riley 6:2 down" and started laughing. I actually went over to him and said I can't beleive you did that, I'm losing and your laughing mid-match!

That is frickin terrible, is there not some large organizational body that can be appealed to in order to put a stop to crap like that? Our sport does not need this, it really does not.

 

[JAM]

What I find distressing is that the hometown crowd, referees, and "others" have displayed a disdain for the American players. If a country is going to take on the role as a host for a major high-profile event like the WPC, I would think they would welcome all players and treat them with respect. To have referees who do not speak English very well at an international event is one thing, but to giggle and laugh during a match is horrifying.

The WPC to pool is the equivalent of the Olympics, and what is great about the Olympics is it breeds patriotism in a good way to root for your home country, but not at the expense of making others uncomfortable and unwelcome.

I have seen MANY international players -- European, Asian, and elsewhere -- come to the States. They are treated with respect, and in some instances, promoters have actually sought them out and paid for all of their expenses to attend events here in the U.S., i.e., Greg and the DCC. This is a good thing, and it brings diversity to our shores.

I remember when the Japanese champions Hiroshi Takenaka and Miyuki Sakai, fresh off a plane from Japan, entered a tournament in Richmond, VA at The Playing Field. They were enjoying themselves to the fullest, and when they made a good shot, the American crowds cheered them on. After the conclusion of the event, Hiroshi hung out with the locals and played darts until the wee hours of the morning. Though he could hardly speak a word of English, the language of international goodwill to all men prevailed. The locals really enjoyed his company, and it was fun seeing Hiroshi giggling and giving people the high-fives between dart shots.

I am not saying that the atmosphere and environment contributed to the American players' not rising on the charts. It just seems kind of sad, though, to hear about the Americans not having a good tournament experience, again, not meaning how well they fared, but just that the reception towards them was poor and, in my opinion, frightening. I hope they are all safe and can't wait for them to come back to American shores.

Picture of Miyuki and Hiroshi taken at Richmond, VA.

JAM

 

[sjm]

...I am not saying that the atmosphere and environment contributed to the American players' not rising on the charts. It just seems kind of sad, though, to hear about the Americans not having a good tournament experience, again, not meaning how well they fared, but just that the reception towards them was poor and, in my opinion, frightening. I hope they are all safe and can't wait for them to come back to American shores....

Tap, tap, tap. The superb play of the Taiwanese in no way excuses their insufficient sportsmanship and their failure to embrace all of the great players of the world. Asia's track record in showing hosptality to the world's great players is highly suspect.

I tend to get bashed on the forum every time I point this out, but I'm gonna say it again. I detest the fact that the San Miguel tour excludes anybody who is not Asian from participation. I've always contended that this is a disgrace to our sport that evidences, at least in part, Asia's failure to sufficiently embrace the great pool players of the world.

Those who offer the lame excuse that this is the only qualifying tour for the WPC fail to recognize that this is no reason at all. The UPA tour is America's qualifying tour for the WPC, but we allow all comers to participate, and simply send the highest ranked American performers on that tour to the WPC. We don't use the fact that the UPA is the qualifying tour for the WPC as a means of excluding players of all nations from playing in American pool events.

I'm sure somebody will post that this is just how they and the sponsors of pertinence choose to conduct business over there, and that it's their right to do so, but the fact is that it hurts pool when Asia, through its actions, chooses not to properly embrace the players of the world.

Finally, let's not get confused here. Asia is a great continent with great people, many of whom I've had the privilege to get to know both socially and in business. This post is not about Asians in general, but only about the actions of Asians who produce, administer and participate in our sport.

 

[JAM]

Tap, tap, tap. The superb play of the Taiwanese in no way excuses their insufficient sportsmanship and their failure to embrace all of the great players of the world. Asia's track record in showing hosptality to the world's great players is highly suspect.

This is a major, perhaps premier, event in the world. It is despicable that the Americans have to huddle together in unison on foreign soil because of a lack of regard and respect on the part of the host country and their counterparts.

I tend to get bashed on the forum every time I point this out, but I'm gonna say it again. I detest the fact that the San Miguel tour excludes anybody who is not Asian from participation. I've always contended that this is a disgrace to our sport that evidences, at least in part, Asia's failure to sufficiently embrace the great pool players of the world.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. German Thorsten Hohmann, British Tony Crosby, Japanese Miyuki Sakai, just to name a few, are embraced here in America and are granted the same opportunities as their American counterparts. We recognize excellence and want them to be enjoy a piece of American apple pie, as lean as that pie is in current times.

Those who offer the lame excuse that this is the only qualifying tour for the WPC fail to recognize that this is no reason at all. The UPA tour is America's qualifying tour for the WPC, but we allow all comers to participate, and simply send the highest ranked American performers on that tour to the WPC. We don't use the fact that the UPA is the qualifying tour for the WPC as a means of excluding players of all nations from playing in American pool events.

That is the American way in a democratic society. Unfortunately, our views and beliefs are not shared by the international groups. Their loss is our gain.

I'm sure somebody will post that this is just how they and the sponsors of pertinence choose to conduct business over there, and that it's their right to do so, but the fact is that it hurts pool when Asia, through its actions, chooses not to properly embrace the players of the world.

Hear, hear!

Finally, let's not get confused here. Asia is a great continent with great people, many of whom I've had the privilege to get to know both socially and in business. This post is not about Asians in general, but only about the actions of Asians who produce, administer and participate in our sport.

Well stated, and I agree wholeheartedly. The irony in all of this is that the game/sport is not a mainstream attraction in the States. Everybody is chewing on the same bone with not much meat on it, but at least the Asian players are welcome AND provided an opportunity to compete. In return, when hosting a major international event on their soil, the American players seem to be alienated and are treated in an undesirable manner.

JAM

 

[Celtic]

No bashing here, I have mentioned it myself that the San Miguel is kind of lame as a private club. Hell they wont even let Australians play. They treat it like their own little training ground just for the WPC so they can beat those cocky capitalistic American pigs. It is sad beyond belief, the WPC takes a back seat to London today though, screw all people who would judge people by the country they are from and not treat all people with equal respect and brotherhood.

 

[JAM]

If the WPC was ever held on American soil, every single of our foreign comrades would be welcome and treated like professionals.

In all of my experience of attending pool tournaments in the United States, I have NEVER seen any American pulling against a pool player based on his/her nationality. It is sickening, and I hope the powers-that-be take measures to prevent it from happening in the future.

Pool players get enough heat in American pool culture, many times much harsher from those within. Then, when granted an opportunity to compete in a prestigious international event, they are treated like outcasts.

Holy nightmare, Batman, indeed!

JAM

 

[mjantti]

Here's one of my favorite pics of Keith and Danny. Danny's counting his cabbage, and it caught Keith's undivided attention through the front window.

JAM

I remember the image from your earlier posts, JAM ! It's hilarious ! Danny counting the jellybeans and Keith viewing (I bet he's grinning) through the glass with a huge trophy in his hand ! A Kodak moment or something...

 

[JAM]

I remember the image from your earlier posts, JAM ! It's hilarious ! Danny counting the jellybeans and Keith viewing (I bet he's grinning) through the glass with a huge trophy in his hand ! A Kodak moment or something...

It was kind of funny. We were in Albany, New York, and I wanted to get on the road and come home. We were just about ready to depart, when Keith zeroed in on Danny holding a bank roll through the front window and wanted to get a better view of the jellybeans, with nostrils wide open!

As I write this post, Keith just walked into the room and told me the terrorists blew up London. MY GOD, suicide bombers; 40 people dead, 60 or 70 injured. Six or seven bombs went off in a train station in Heathrow. When will it stop?! They are saying D.C. is next. I'm nervous.

At any rate, my favorite picture is this one taken a few years ago at the Derby City Classic in Louisville, Kentucky, United States, the land of opportunity where all pool players from all walks of earth are welcome with open arms.

JAM

 

[TheOne]

That is actually hilarious.



That is frickin terrible, is there not some large organizational body that can be appealed to in order to put a stop to crap like that? Our sport does not need this, it really does not.

A bit of history which started after one of my early games. In one match a played push agaist the tit of the middle pocket and the ball rolled full ball and scratched. I didn't say anythign but waited until after the match and tried it again, it did the same thing. The ref came over and I said before you let anyone else play on this table you should maybe get it checked as its a bit off. He laughed at me as though I was making it up. He didnt seem to care and I dont think they did anything which I thought sucked. Anyway after that he seemed to go out of his way to give me a hard time. In one match my short was near a ball and I didnt think there where shirt fouls. The same ref comes over and I asked if it was ball in hand if a shirt foul, he said "well, no" I said so why did you say no shirt fouls, and he said well it is a foul!!! he cahnged his mind in one sentence. I told him that I didn't think everyone knew about this and he sould announce it over the MC and he again laughed and said everyone knew! I couldn't beleive tis guy? My friend was playing on the next table and why the balls where being rack I told him that there where shirt fouls to make sure he knew, the ref came over and said "riley you can not leave your table why you are playing!!!!" Compared to Scot smith in the US this guy was a joke, but like SJM said, no excuses its all good experience and every player should be capable of getting through stuff like this. I struggled as this ref seemed to walk past crucial shots constantly when I was playing local players etc, sure he was winding me up lol! Interesting this was same ref told strickland he couldnt talk to his opponent and also had a bit of contoversial tonight with duel over marking table.

Anyway enough bitching, one thing though they could all learn a thing or too from Mr Scott Smith? The guy who does Reno etc, what a great TD he is!

 

[sniper]

I remember watching Scott Smith at the US Open and the Mosconi Cup a couple years ago. He certainly seems like a great referee and along with Ms.Tabb and Nigel Reese this group of three seems to be the best the game has to offer in the referee department.

Theone, have you considered putting in a formal complaint with the WPA/matchroom sport over what happened? Such an incident shouldn't be occurring at this level and it's a shame you had to endure that kind of Bullshit.

 

[DaveK]

If the WPC was ever held on American soil, every single of our foreign comrades would be welcome and treated like professionals.

In all of my experience of attending pool tournaments in the United States, I have NEVER seen any American pulling against a pool player based on his/her nationality. It is sickening, and I hope the powers-that-be take measures to prevent it from happening in the future.

Pool players get enough heat in American pool culture, many times much harsher from those within. Then, when granted an opportunity to compete in a prestigious international event, they are treated like outcasts.

Holy nightmare, Batman, indeed!

JAM

I see a molehill being turned into a mountain.

Dave

 

[PoolBum]

Deuel does not really need a good bracket. If he is there to play he is not an underdog to anyone in the event really. At this point he has as good a chance to win the whole thing as anyone. It would actually be pretty cool if he did and maybe act as a little boost to pool in America.

He made not need a good bracket, but a good bracket definitely helps. Even if Deuel played five matches against guys he was a 75% chance to beat in a given set, he would be a about a 3-1 underdog to win the tournament from the last 64.

 

[JAM]

I see a molehill being turned into a mountain.

Those words do have quite a familiar ring to them in recent days. It does not surprise me, though, that a Canadian's vision may be skewed relating to American players.

If you expended several thousand dollars to travel halfway around the world in a 12-plus-hour plane ride to compete in the WORLD POOL CHAMPIONSHIP with referees singling you out and/or laughing at you during competition, all this based solely on the fact that you were an American, your outlook may be somewhat different.

I see this as a travesty and do not believe any foreign player, Taiwanese or Canadian, has ever been treated with anything but respect as a professional on American soil. Philippino Super Stars are worshiped right here on this forum, and whenever they make a cameo appearance in any American event, they are given the utmost respect, and rightfully so. What a shame this practice isn't an international standard.

I cannot imagine world-renown TD Scott Smith, an American in his referee role, laughing or giving a foreign player a hard time. Quite frankly, it is unheard of, but if it helps to look the other way and act as if this is the norm in the international pool world as a generally accepted practice, then God bless you.

Picture of Scott Smith in his role as the TD of the U.S. Open, as Canadian Luc Salvas, Philippino "Warren" (I think), and American Howard Vickery look over his shoulder. Thankfully, Scott Smith treats all players the same and has no color barriers, except maybe in his selection of shirts.

JAM

 

[JAM]

He made not need a good bracket, but a good bracket definitely helps. Even if Deuel played five matches against guys he was a 75% chance to beat in a given set, he would be a about a 3-1 underdog to win the tournament from the last 64.

Corey Deuel just lost to Mika Immonen, 10 to 8, in what looked to be like a neck-and-neck match. Congratulations to Mika.

Rodney is currently struck 4 to 1 at the time of this writing.

Picture of Keith and Mika Immonen, with Jose Parica in the background. This was taken at a pool room in Pennsylvania called Planet Pool, which Mika was part owner of. Mika's beautiful World Pool Championship trophy was on full display in an enclosed case with some other WPC memorabilia.

JAM

 

[parvus1202]

Picture of Scott Smith in his role as the TD of the U.S. Open, as Canadian Luc Salvas, Philippino "Warren" (I think), and American Howard Vickery look over his shoulder. Thankfully, Scott Smith treats all players the same and has no color barriers, except maybe in his selection of shirts.

JAM

I think that was Luat on blue shirt and black jacket.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

I sincerely hope that the major printed Billiards magazines will print names and instances of the abuse that has been inflicted.

They need to be publicly shamed for their individual actions.

In my life, I have always been led to believe that Asian culture was extremely keen on Honor and Respect.

It would appear I have been mistaken in that notion.




Dave

 

[parvus1202]

I sincerely hope that the major printed Billiards magazines will print names and instances of the abuse that has been inflicted.

They need to be publicly shamed for their individual actions.

In my life, I have always been led to believe that Asian culture was extremely keen on Honor and Respect.

It would appear I have been mistaken in that notion.




Dave

Maybe you should write an article and send it to the billiard magazine. If it is true in nature and if they like it then maybe it will be printed.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Maybe you should write an article and send it to the billiard magazine. If it is true in nature and if they like it then maybe it will be printed.

It would require first hand knowledge of the actions/accusations and would require the persons that were offended to step forward and say "this happened to me".

I'm just someone hearing about their actions and voicing my dismay.


It is my hope that there are people / organizations that were present and witness to these slights and report on them in the first person.

*If* the actions happened, others know the truth and the shame of it is on the refs and organizers of the event who allowed this to take place.

To the people who were treated this way, they know the truth.

 

[DaveK]

Those words do have quite a familiar ring to them in recent days. It does not surprise me, though, that a Canadian's vision may be skewed relating to American players.

If you expended several thousand dollars to travel halfway around the world in a 12-plus-hour plane ride to compete in the WORLD POOL CHAMPIONSHIP with referees singling you out and/or laughing at you during competition, all this based solely on the fact that you were an American, your outlook may be somewhat different.

Of course by vision is skewed by my nationality, that's the way it is. Similarly, your vision is skewed by your nationality. That's what all this is about. How you see things, how I see things, and then perhaps, how they really are.

It is quite tough to draw accurate conclusions with all of these skewed views, especially based on third/forth/fifth hand skewed-view information. To do so is quite unfair. However it is happening pretty regularly around here ! This ends up being a gossip forum, but it goes a bit far sometimes, that is my point.

In retrospect I should not have replied to your post JAM, instead I should have created a direct post. I applogise for not doing so, and thus singling you out, when I really meant this as a general comment about the mob-mentality that sometimes develops out of national pride.
Dave