home addition for a pool room???

[Trent]

im thinking of taking down my screened in porch that leads to my deck and thurning the deck and the porch into a room big enough for my pool table..

so lets see some pics where you guy have done a addition for this purpose.
id love some inspiration.

or i might just build another garage.....:thumbup:

 

[Philthepockets]

Not sure of your local codes and regs but I opted to build a 24x24 detached garage and convert it after the last inspection
Couple of reasons.
If you add to your living space your taxes may go up.
Codes are not as strict for garages, foundations, drainage etc so less cost.
Noise is less of an issue being separate from the main house.
Cost vs added value, the garage wins here.

Downside is no plumbing, the can is in the laundry room so It's a pain going back and forth.
Running in electric was a little costly with two new panels and a 100' of tech cable ( I had to trench this and my back still hurts )

Good luck!

 

[runout1961]

I say go for it. I bought a 9ft Diamond Pr-Am with intentions of partially converting my garage for my pool room. Then I thought about an addition as well. Either way I'll still have a 9ft Diamond in my house. I say whatever you have to do to have a home pool room, go for it.

 

[cigardave]

I vote for the second garage. Save the deck for the grill and seating when the party transitions that way.

I'd have done the same thing (separate pool room) except my septic field is in my back yard and that's the only spot that I have available... so I put my table inside my existing garage, finished it out... and have never regretted it.

Hosted a party last weekend for ~20 of my pool-playing friends. We had a blast playing pool, ladder golf and chowing down on baby back ribs and chicken.

 

[Trent]

i have a room for it now in my cue shop i have a 2 story barn the bottom is the cue shop and my table is up stairs the probem is humidity and temp control.

i was just going to put a nice drop ceiling in and insulate and finish the upstairs but with it being a 100 yr old barn the wood keeps settling under the table throwing it off level even after i put a steel I-beam under the middle of the floor and braced it so im on the fence for alot of things.

all i know is i want a place to play that is temp controlled and level.

and heck the upstairs is so big i could fit a 9ft and 7 ft tble easily.

 

[Sev]

i have a room for it now in my cue shop i have a 2 story barn the bottom is the cue shop and my table is up stairs the probem is humidity and temp control.

i was just going to put a nice drop ceiling in and insulate and finish the upstairs but with it being a 100 yr old barn the wood keeps settling under the table throwing it off level even after i put a steel I-beam under the middle of the floor and braced it so im on the fence for alot of things.

all i know is i want a place to play that is temp controlled and level.

and heck the upstairs is so big i could fit a 9ft and 7 ft tble easily.

What is the wall and ceiling height in the barn?
I may have an idea for you.
Also what is the framing size of the walls?
And floor span?

 

[Philthepockets]

Hosted a party last weekend for ~20 of my pool-playing friends. We had a blast playing pool, ladder golf and chowing down on baby back ribs and chicken.

Not quite sure why I wasn't there??

 

[phread59]

I'm gonna buck the system and vote for using the deck and porch. I don't know where you live. But here in the Northeast closing in the deck would be the most ecanomical. The shared heat from the house would be a huge savings on heat and cooling. I'd have to see the deck to see what weatherproofing the floor would need. But it probably will be cheaper to enclose than to build.

I will also caution you to check on local building codes. To convert usually only requires some permits. Here in PA new construction requires not only permits but inspections of all phases of the build. This can be costly and time consuming. And some localitys required liscenced contractors. Also a bank would require a contractor listed to even get the money. Doing the enclosure you can probably do it yourself. But building the outbuilding will probalbly not be feasable yourself. No disrespect intended.

And lastly an addition would be cheaper insurancewise. A seoerate building would add significantly to your homeowners insurance to insure the structure properly. Also your taxes will probably take a big hike as well.

Check with your insurance agent, code enforcement office and bank. See what is the best option and then go for it. I'd love to add 2 rooms on the back of my house. One for a wood working shop and one for a game room. Just can't afford it right now. I have the ability to do it myself but not the funds.

Good luck whichever way you go.

Mark Shuman

 

[Trent]

What is the wall and ceiling height in the barn?
I may have an idea for you.
Also what is the framing size of the walls?
And floor span?

i suppose id have to climb up there and measure it lol
but if i had to guess i would say huge!!

 

[Sev]

i suppose id have to climb up there and measure it lol
but if i had to guess i would say huge!!

Perhaps to large to be economically viable for what I have to suggest. However it would get you around building permits and higher taxes.

Are you familiar with the old concept of balloon framing of a building??? It is a modification of that technique I am going to suggest.
What I am getting from your post is that the original floor joists are subject to a high degree of movement as most likely is the floor decking.

Since apparently you have a rather large barn here is what I suggest.

Select the area, starting at one of the gable ends, you wish to have the table in. Make it a large enough area that you are going to be comfortable playing in and taking into consideration you are going to have several people within the area.

Then at the floor level along the perimeter of the eves and gable end attach 2x6's to the wall studs using ledger lock style lags.
This is called a ridge plate.
Before you attach make sure the ridge plate is level from point to point and shim where necessary. You want it to have a solid connection with the existing decking.
You may also want to consider using at least 2 1/2 inch deck screws to secure the decking along the perimeter to remove and possible movement and reveal area's that may need to be shimmed.

Now depending on the length of the span from eve wall to eve wall will determine what you do next.
Douglas Fur 2x12's can be ordered to spans of over 24'. These would be your new floor joists that would be cut and placed on top of your newly installed ridge plate. Hopefully the span is under 20 feet to minimize the any bounce of the wood due to the span and avoid needing to support the floor from underneath. The only place you would want to place supports is directly above your steal beam.

Now rather than going with Dough Fur you could go with LVL's, microlams or parralam, which are engineered lumber that can be had in any length and width. These are very stable and strong. This would probably be the preferred direction to go. You can have them engineered to span long lengths without having to have a center support.

Which ever direction you go you want to place them at a maximum of 16 inch centers. Then you want to tie them all together by installing block work on between the joists. I would not space them more than 8 feet apart. 4 feet would probably suffice. Your objective is to tie all the joists together in order to take any bounce out of the floor structure. Your turning it into 1 solid integrated unit.
Once this is done install unfaced R30 in between the joist.
Install 3/4 inch tongue and grove plywood decking. Glue it and screw it.
This will further stiffen the floor structure and prevent squeaking.

Your next step is to frame an inside wall matching the eve wall height. Your top plate on the wall should be level with the top plate of the eve wall plate. Include framing a door opening large enough to get your table through.

Cut out openings in the exterior walls and frame in windows frame in windows at this point if you want any.
If you are unsure of structural support perhaps skip this or have a contractor you know look into this for you.

Once that is done your going to want to consider having some electric run.
Once this is done insulate the walls using faced insulation.

Now you need a ceiling. Unless the existing barn roof is low enough to be serviceable. Which by the sounds of it it is probably very high.
So. How about a vaulted ceiling for your new room? Your going to need some extra hands for this. Your about to build a faux roof.

You will need a ridge beam. The Douglass fur in 2x10 will work for this as there will be no vertical weight from roofing material.
Find your center and select the height you want for your ceiling. You want to frame a support area on the inside wall and and gable end that will securely hold the ridge beam in place.

Now your rafters.
Depending on the span 2x6's or 2x8's will suffice. Run them from the top of your existing barn wall plate to the ridge beam and secure on 16 inch centers if the the structure allows for it. As I am relatively sure the barn roof is not on 16 inch centers this could be difficult. Not to worry though.

Once your done with the rafter select the height of your collar ties to complete your vaulted ceiling. Keep everything level. This achieve 2 things.
Keep pressure from building on your outside walls and give you the flat area of a vaulted ceiling.
General rule is to locate the collar ties 1/3 of the way down from the peak as measured as the vertical distance from the peak to a horizontal point the located at the same level as your exterior wall plate if you were building a true roof.
So if the wall plate is your 0 point and lets say the peak is 6 feet higher than the wall plate you want to drop the collar ties down 2 feet.

Next run your power.

Insulate ceiling with a min of R25.

Install lighting and fan mounts.

Install sheet rock. Tape and paint.

Install switches, fans and lighting.

Install your preferred flooring in your new pool room.

Install table.

Find a used split level air conditioning unit to control the climate of the new room. Goodman is very good for this purpose.

Bar, keggalator, flat screen theater system and music systems are all optional of course.

Please take into consideration dimensional changes to the room that would need to be considered should any of these be installed.

Over all this should be cheaper than going through getting permits, architect, pouring a foundation and everything else involved in building a new addition to code.

Please keep in mind this is quick synopsis of what I think you can do based upon your discription. Without actually seeing it I can not be certain that all the above will meet your needs or even be applicable.
However it is a good foundation for discussing with any contractors that may be friends of yours before deciding to move forward.

I may have missed a few points. I am sure there are plenty of other members in the building industry on AZB that can fill in any blanks or tweak the suggested I have proposed.

Also consider posting some pictures of the proposed project area if you get a chance.

Hope this has been helpful to you.

Cheers!!

OH. Have hammer. May travel.

 

[Bambu]

Just a suggestion here, but I was able to hook up baseboard heat directly from the boiler in the house. So when the house calls for heat, I get some too. The copper run is about 50 feet from the house to the garage, but nothing a small pump cant handle. Not exactly free heat, but almost.

 

[Trent]

wow what a response lol ill have to keep that im in mind, i think over all weight of the up[stairs would be a issue as well ill try and post pics of the barn sometime soon, new electric will be done before winter along with insulation in the down stairs.

 

[Sev]

wow what a response lol ill have to keep that im in mind, i think over all weight of the up[stairs would be a issue as well ill try and post pics of the barn sometime soon, new electric will be done before winter along with insulation in the down stairs.

You def want to keep structural considerations in mind. However almost all of the weight will be supported by the outside walls as is being done by the current floor system.

Now if you want to kick it up a notch.

Tongue and groove knotty pine stained and polyied instead of sheet rock on the ceiling is always nice. You could also install directional halogen canister lights as well

36 to 42 inches of knotty pine along the walls set on a diagonal with a chair rail is also a nice touch.

Elk antler pool table light.

Cork flooring. Etc.

 

[The Saw]

Put that barn on the ground and put a pole barn there.... Then have a nice pool room , cue shop, and man cave. I myself wouldn't put a nickel into the barn you have now.

 

[Sev]

Put that barn on the ground and put a pole barn there.... Then have a nice pool room , cue shop, and man cave. I myself wouldn't put a nickel into the barn you have now.

True this is another option.
Generally pole barns are not considered permanent structures. However you could still be looking at a change of tax structure. Also now the local establishment is in your business.

However as the existing barn is over a century old and if it is well build and structurally sound it could be of more value to the property than a new pole barn.

At a time of sale some people are willing to pay good money for an old structure such as that.

 

[Trent]

Put that barn on the ground and put a pole barn there.... Then have a nice pool room , cue shop, and man cave. I myself wouldn't put a nickel into the barn you have now.

DONT HATE ON MY BARN SIR! lol it serves a dirty messy purpose. and it came with my 1890s house lol

 

[BRKNRUN]

I am not posting many pics right now cause the table is currently torn apart for some a rebuild and It also past time for a paint and re-deco...

When we bought the house we got lucky that the back wall was 20 feet wide and the roof sloped to each side (instead of sloping toward the back)

back of the house also was the master bedroom.....I did some research and found a general contractor that could do the job...We found out that we could extend back 16 feet without violating any zoning laws.....(net 16 x 20 room addition)

I had to have an architect do official plans done for the permits and also for the association...the outside had to look exactly like the rest of the house for the association to approve it..(same roof tile, stucco, color) ...We got all the pre-approvals and off we went.

The contractor did not take all the money at once..I set up a separate account that I could draw from to pay him as he needed money for jobs.

All of the jobs (except the foundation) was done by crews that worked for companies but did side jobs in the afternoon after thier normal work day.

The foundation took the longest....they dug a pretty deep ditch around the outside of the new additon and loaded it up with all kinds of rebar...they poured it and the adjoining patio that now ties in with the origonal patio all at once..they added some studs around the edge for the walls...It was over a month before any other work was done.....

One afternoon a lumber drop was done into my back yard...The next afternoon 4 guys showed up and started throwing wood around and metal brackets and such...It seemed like only about an hour later they had the framing up and done for all three walls.

A couple days later the pre-built certified roof trusses were brought in from somewhere and installed......Then the electrician came back.....then a whole host of crews, plumber, stucco guys, insulation, roofer, drywall, glass door installer, AC, painter, electrician again...etc.etc.

It was done quicker than I thought is would be....Then the permit guy again came out and gave the final sign off...

$14k later (and another 1k for the GCII) I now have direct access from the master bedroom to a 16x20 pool room...The other access is from the back patio.

I had heard of horror stories of people doing something like this...work getting half completed or not completed at all...but I did not have any of those problems... In fact...about 6 months after the room addition was done the contractor called me to see if I had any problems.

The real luck in all this though was having a wife that will agree to let me spend 15K on a pool room.....:wink:

 

[Trent]

now thats awsome!!!!

 

[Sev]

I am not posting many pics right now cause the table is currently torn apart for some a rebuild and It also past time for a paint and re-deco...

When we bought the house we got lucky that the back wall was 20 feet wide and the roof sloped to each side (instead of sloping toward the back)

back of the house also was the master bedroom.....I did some research and found a general contractor that could do the job...We found out that we could extend back 16 feet without violating any zoning laws.....(net 16 x 20 room addition)

I had to have an architect do official plans done for the permits and also for the association...the outside had to look exactly like the rest of the house for the association to approve it..(same roof tile, stucco, color) ...We got all the pre-approvals and off we went.

The contractor did not take all the money at once..I set up a separate account that I could draw from to pay him as he needed money for jobs.

All of the jobs (except the foundation) was done by crews that worked for companies but did side jobs in the afternoon after thier normal work day.

The foundation took the longest....they dug a pretty deep ditch around the outside of the new additon and loaded it up with all kinds of rebar...they poured it and the adjoining patio that now ties in with the origonal patio all at once..they added some studs around the edge for the walls...It was over a month before any other work was done.....

One afternoon a lumber drop was done into my back yard...The next afternoon 4 guys showed up and started throwing wood around and metal brackets and such...It seemed like only about an hour later they had the framing up and done for all three walls.

A couple days later the pre-built certified roof trusses were brought in from somewhere and installed......Then the electrician came back.....then a whole host of crews, plumber, stucco guys, insulation, roofer, drywall, glass door installer, AC, painter, electrician again...etc.etc.

It was done quicker than I thought is would be....Then the permit guy again came out and gave the final sign off...

$14k later (and another 1k for the GCII) I now have direct access from the master bedroom to a 16x20 pool room...The other access is from the back patio.

I had heard of horror stories of people doing something like this...work getting half completed or not completed at all...but I did not have any of those problems... In fact...about 6 months after the room addition was done the contractor called me to see if I had any problems.

The real luck in all this though was having a wife that will agree to let me spend 15K on a pool room.....:wink:

Very nicely done.
Finding good contractors can be a problem at times.

Finding a good woman that is down with you building a your own man land is even more difficult to find. :thumbup:

Now does she know about that 10,000.00 cue you own?????

 

[BRKNRUN]

Now does she know about that 10,000.00 cue you own?????

LOL....no but she does know about the 4 1K cues that I have purchased over the years...(6 more to go)

I don't know what pricing research Trent has done...but when I did this addition back in 97 the contractor estimated about $45 per square foot. We ended up paying less than that...When I first started researching the cost and contractors...I was told to expect between $65 - $85 per Square Ft.

We did not have any serious custom work done...so that helped keep the cost down. If I remember correctly the foundation and the roof trusses were the most costly...The roof trusses had to be certified separatly from the rest of the structure...but since this was during the house boom around here they were able to order the same exact trusses that were used to build the origonal house....and the same exact spanish tile was still available....(it is not anymore)

IF you can avoid those two costs...I would imagine you could get the cost under 10K easy...I had looked at closing in our back patio, but the roof slopes toward the back there and it would have caused gully sections where the two roofs met that may have caused rain issues...that and I would not have reached the 16x20 sized which IMO is as small as you can go if you want a 9 foot table.

I would have gone 20x20 but would not have been able to get a permit for that..

We did our addition back in 1998...I don't know what it is like in Trent's area, but with todays economy...(especially in AZ) I would think you would be able to get a job done at $45 per square ft. as long as you did not go crazy on the upgrades.

Even after watching the process...I would not attempt to do it myself...There are so many sub contracted jobs that have to be done (in the proper order)...And you have to know how to verify that they did the job correctly....and then getting the required permits is another thing...I can see clearly all the humor from the movie "The Money Pit" and how that movie came about.