Hoppe Rambow cues on ebay

Bamacues said:
Like you, I would also like to have a nice titlist conversion cue made just to play around with. While I don't think I would mess up a Rambow if I knew I had one, I never cared for those really fat cues even when I was younger, but to have a full splice with Titlist points, some classic inlays, and for it to be done by a really top notch cuemaker......well that is my cup of tea!!
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Bama, you can always pick up one or two old Brunswick Titlists on ebay and then either choose one for conversion, or re-sell with little $ loss. Keep trying until you find one you think is a good candidate. Maybe you'll get lucky and end up with a Hoppe Rambow. :confused:
 
runscott said:
Bama, you can always pick up one or two old Brunswick Titlists on ebay and then either choose one for conversion, or re-sell with little $ loss. Keep trying until you find one you think is a good candidate. Maybe you'll get lucky and end up with a Hoppe Rambow. :confused:
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I want one sort of like this one. Around here, I would probably just have Phillippi, Frey or a friend, Eddie Anderson (made Mike Davis' cue) make it. If it is for me to knock around with, it doesn't have to be a Tasc or Hercek, etc. All 3 of these guys do great work.
 
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Bamacues said:
Runscott, let me state that in spite of the bickering, etc, I think I personally picked up on some valuable info, but it is pretty much what I thought all along.

1. Is a restored Rambow or Balabushka (or other) cue worth as much as an original cue in close to the same condition? No way...probably not close...

2. Can restoration of a cue add to its overall value? Yes, but only if the cue was in relatively poor condition in the beginning and the restoration is performed by a top notch cuesmith...

3. Are there significant differences in the value of classic (and other) cues that may be stated in the Bluebook? Certainly, the Bluebook is flawed, some high and some low, no one really pays those prices anyways...I personally don't have a problem with the Bluebook as it is written. I think it gives me an insight to the cuemakers who have risen up since the last book, but it isn't really a price guide, IMO...
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I'm going to give you a big "tap,tap, tap" on that analysis.

It should be kept in mind that some cues have more instrinsic "historic value" as an antique collectible made by a famous cue-maker than value as an art object.

The reason why 100% original cues in excellent condition are worth a lot more than restored cues is because they are so rare. They should be worth more! Anybody can pay $200 and get a cue refinished and restored, but few will ever find a 50 year old cue kept in pristine condition.

Should a cue be left in original condition if it's falling apart? A qualified "yes". Some of them should be because their true value is as an antique.

Chris
 
I don't really want to get into the bickering about this particular cue, but IMO, as long as the seller lays all of the facts about the restoration, etc. regarding their cue to the buyer, it is up to the buyer to make the decision in the end.

Personally, if I were looking for a Rambow, I wouldn't buy this one because of the extensive work done. I would rather buy one in decent shape and have it refinished, not remanufactured, as appears to be the case in this instance. Not taking anything from Joel's work, I would not want a pedigree cue to have been taken apart and put back together again differently. A refinish and rewrap, but not structural changes.
 
cuenut said:
I don't really want to get into the bickering about this particular cue, but IMO, as long as the seller lays all of the facts about the restoration, etc. regarding their cue to the buyer, it is up to the buyer to make the decision in the end.

Personally, if I were looking for a Rambow, I wouldn't buy this one because of the extensive work done. I would rather buy one in decent shape and have it refinished, not remanufactured, as appears to be the case in this instance. Not taking anything from Joel's work, I would not want a pedigree cue to have been taken apart and put back together again differently. A refinish and rewrap, but not structural changes.
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It's a beautiful cue - I really like the job Joel Hercek has done on the butt. But I am enjoying the entire process of picking vintage cues for restoration, choosing a cuesmith, and then seeing the finished product.

I'm really curious what this cue looked like to begin with. Maybe there are photos? You would think there would be, given all the provenance and the knowledge of the entire line of owners.
 
runscott said:
It's a beautiful cue - I really like the job Joel Hercek has done on the butt. But I am enjoying the entire process of picking vintage cues for restoration, choosing a cuesmith, and then seeing the finished product.

I'm really curious what this cue looked like to begin with. Maybe there are photos? You would think there would be, given all the provenance and the knowledge of the entire line of owners.
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Scott,
What are you looking for. I think Mark will be pulling out some 2 and 4 butterfly cues from storage for VF.

Joe
 
runscott said:
I'm really curious what this cue looked like to begin with. Maybe there are photos? You would think there would be, given all the provenance and the knowledge of the entire line of owners.
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I can take a wild guess. You needed an airsick bag to behold it.

Chris
 
classiccues said:
Scott,
What are you looking for. I think Mark will be pulling out some 2 and 4 butterfly cues from storage for VF.

Joe
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Joe, I already found a couple and they are being restored - Hoppe arrives Thursday, and a wedge/butterfly in January. I'm currently just keeping my eyes open in case something interesting pops up.
 
1225.00 and the BB says WHAT??!?!?!

Well if it was an identically restored Bushka, by Pete Tasc with the same amount of resto.. its 5k no problem. In fact, if it was a Palmer it would have sold for more. :eek:

Great job on the appraisal..

Rambow...

Buy it for $ 1000
Pay $1200 for a resto
Pay $300 for an appraisal

Sell it for $ 1225

Hopefully with that $300 he got the paperwork and a jar of K-Y

Joe
 
Jimbo said:
Hey now Joe!
Just cause you and mark give away a free jar of k-y with every purchase doesnt mean everybody should!
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before the next wave of house cleaning.

edit: already deleted

jeff
 
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iconcue said:
hey now joe!
just cause you and mark give away a free jar of k-y with every purchase doesnt mean everybody should!
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well i don't hear you complaining... :eek:

Joe
 
Rambow

Just find it interesting, as I was the seller of that Rambow, that Joe and others went a long way to discredit it down to the K-Y comments and thought the rest of you might as well. If you visit the now ended auction and read the reply to the last question you with see the complete text, verbatim, of a hand written letter on Pool Table Magic Stationary, signed by Mark, extolling the virtues of the cue and the excellant job by Joel and it's implied value.

I guess it just depends on who is selling it. Double standard comes to mind. What I sell is good, what you sell is crap, sound familiar???? I would be happy to fax a copy of the letter to anyone who cares to read it. Guess this cue that was refinished in 1995 and promoted by Mark the same year after the refinish is now worth a lot less now that they are not selling it. Again happy to fax the letter to substantiate this.
P.S. Glad it's over.
 
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SBESAW said:
Just find it interesting as the seller of that Rambow that Joe and others went a long way to discredit it down to the K-Y comments and thought the rest of you might as well. If you visit the now ended auction and read the reply to the last question you with see the complete text, verbatim, of a hand written letter on Pool Table Magic Stationary, signed by Mark, extolling the virtues of the cue and the excellant job by Joel and it's implied value.

I guess it just depends on who is selling it. Double standard comes to mind. What I sell is good, what you sell is crap, sound familiar???? I would be happy to fax a copy of the letter to anyone who cares to read it. Guess this cue that was refinished in 1995 and promoted by Mark the same year after the refinish is now worth a lot less now that they are not selling it. Again happy to fax the letter to substantiate this.
P.S. Glad it's over.
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If you are the seller, your cue not selling well, had nothing to do with this discussion. In fact the discussion was not to discredit the cue at all. The cue is very nice. Its a shame the recent appraisal might have given you hopes that weren't met.

If you wanted to point blame, here is a good place to start. The ALL WORLD Rambow expert who did authenticate your cue and told you it was worth 2700-3000 as a Restored Rambow circa 1962, penned this little dity in this very thread..
"...as a restored Rambow, I wouldn't pay a penny for it...but because the work was done by Joel, I am considering making a modest bid to add it to my Hercek collection."
So now if the WORLDS most recognized experts in Rambow writes this in regards to an auction that is titled a Rambow, and why not, that what your appraisal read, so I don't blame you for listing it that way. But when an expert of this caliber says this, regardless of if its a cue, or a car, or whatever, thats the kiss of death.

In regards to 1995 I wasn't working with Mark at the time, so I couldn't even phathom what is said on the letter. But just as point of reference, a model J Palmer sold for 3200 not long after that. It was when the world was cue crazy. So you might have sold it for more then, who knows.. its only speculation.

Joe
 
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SBESAW,
I especially liked the part in Mark's letter that said the cue was now "better than new." I also liked how the cue, according to Joe's partner, was made for Herbert Lehman by rambow when in fact it was made for Lehmann's uncle 8 years earlier. Oh, and the part about Lehmann winning back to back "World Championships" left me researching for hours and hours without even finding a mention of this guy's name on any snooker champion lists I could find in my library or on line anywhere. Interesting thing is that Rambow cues that belonged to players of note bring much higher $$$ than those that belonged to average players. Curious huh?....

Deno
-has plans for the letter
 
To the best of my knowledge Joe you did not read the appraisal. When appraising one-of-a-kind antiques, valuation is based on replacement value. I don't expect you to know that. Anyway, try finding another Fully Restored Rambow that was meticulously restored like this one by one of the best cue makers ever...it would cost right around what the cue was appraised for to have a replacement done, and maybe more. Anybody can sell anything they want on ebay and get rock bottom for it any given week. And anyone can wait around for steals on ebay. Ebay is not the market. If the cue was lost or stolen, what would it cost to get another just like it or very close to it? The answer is my valuation range.

By the way, your usage of "thingy's" is grossly wrong in your tag line...
 
iconcue said:
hey now joe!
just cause you and mark give away a free jar of k-y with every purchase doesnt mean everybody should!
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Before the next wave of house cleaning.

Jim
 
JimBo said:
i'm coming out of the closet! I'm a gay man and proud of it!!!

i lead the life of a homosexual.

i'm also in love with another gay man! we want the right to marry just like husband and wife and the ability to adopt children.

i know this shouldnt be in the wanted/for sale forum but i had to get it out in the open and now was the time to do it!

Jim
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jim the for sale/wanted forum is not the place for this kind of public annoucement! you need to move it to the non-pool forum unless you use cues in the act of homosexual relations. if so you may post it in the cue gallery.

edit: thanks for moving your post jim

Jeff
 
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Deno J. Andrews said:
SBESAW,
I especially liked the part in Mark's letter that said the cue was now "better than new." I also liked how the cue, according to Joe's partner, was made for Herbert Lehman by rambow when in fact it was made for Lehmann's uncle 8 years earlier. Oh, and the part about Lehmann winning back to back "World Championships" left me researching for hours and hours without even finding a mention of this guy's name on any snooker champion lists I could find in my library or on line anywhere. Interesting thing is that Rambow cues that belonged to players of note bring much higher $$$ than those that belonged to average players. Curious huh?....

Deno
-has plans for the letter
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1- Mark and I work together, but we aren't partners.
2- This is typical Deno, this is why he is what he is. Your beef is with me, but
like in the last debate on RSB, you choose to go after someone that isn't even typing. Which I guess with you, is to be fully expected.

Joe
 
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Deno J. Andrews said:
To the best of my knowledge Joe you did not read the appraisal. When appraising one-of-a-kind antiques, valuation is based on replacement value. I don't expect you to know that. Anyway, try finding another Fully Restored Rambow that was meticulously restored like this one by one of the best cue makers ever...it would cost right around what the cue was appraised for to have a replacement done, and maybe more. Anybody can sell anything they want on ebay and get rock bottom for it any given week. And anyone can wait around for steals on ebay. Ebay is not the market. If the cue was lost or stolen, what would it cost to get another just like it or very close to it? The answer is my valuation range.

By the way, your usage of "thingy's" is grossly wrong in your tag line...
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1-Forget replacement value, because it is also partly derived from market value. Replacement value to who? I own a Szamboti that IMHO has no replacement value if it gets lost or stolen. But in market, I could by an asthetic replacement for around 6k. So don't hide behind some lame a$$ technical jargon, that you are using in the most vague of ways. But like the question I posed before, in your example if Joel never does another Rambow repair, this could mean the replacement value is undefinable, or priceless. Now maybe had you stuck to your own beliefs and "titled" the document Hercek made from 1962 Rambow, he would have gotten closer to the "appraised" value. but wait.. maybe there is another reason that you couldn't title it that way..

2- Ebay isn't the whole market, but listed on any site the cue (as a Rambow) is no more than a 1500 asking price cue. As a Hercek who knows.. but "I" for one wouldn't be comfortable in calling it a Hercek without Joels blessing.

Joe
 
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