how are ya'll doing in league ?

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The LO can't directly set a skill level in the system, its all about the algorithm. However what they can do is set blind minimum skill levels for players, so basically no mater what the algorithm says, it don't drop a player below that skill level. I would be highly doubt anyone entering info in the computer is manipulating the data, that is a lot of work that they would have to keep up with on a weekly basis and keep track of what players they are manipulating. I am sure the national APA would not be fond of that behavior. I have talked to 2 league ops from different areas (one was a former LO) that both said they just let the system do its thing unless there are blatant obvious issue that needs addressed.

I also know that the LO can effectively MOOT all of their previous match scores and basically start someone fresh. This is used for when people have a life altering sickness / injury that drastically changes the way they can play.

Whether the local LO does it or they recommend it to National I don't know, but I guarantee a LO has the ability to change a players setting - you'll just have to trust me on that.

And I'm not saying they are manipulating it, I'm saying based on stats, comments from other players, etc. I'm saying they are adjusting it. My comment about changing it without telling the player is based on stories I've heard of other LO's, our LO would tell a player up front.

And I agree that if they are manipulating it then the National office would not be happy, and rightly so.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Got to league last night and ended up getting a bye because the other team quit.

Last season we had a guy that was either not showing up or showing up super late. Eventually the captain dropped him from the team, and he was pissed about it like he had no idea why. Evidently three of his friends had been stewing about his "unfair" dismissal and quit the team at the end of the season. They started their own team along with the guy the captain kicked off.

This is the team that quit last night. Why? Because the captain couldn't rely on enough of them showing up to play each week. Our new team has been solid.

Karma is a bitch.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You’d have to ask your LO but I have never seen anyone move up that fast, I truly don’t believe it can happen on their algorithm alone.
My SL 7 started as a 3 a couple sessions ago. He was a FR 670 ish at the time. We told the LO at the time that he was by far the best shooter in the league, LO said to just let the system work. week one he played a SL 6. He got a "Rackless", "Break and Run", and a "I beat a 6 " patch in the first night! 🤪 :ROFLMAO:

Week 2 he was a SL 5. Beat another SL 6 4-0 with another BnR and 4 total innings.

Week 3 he was an SL7 where he has remained.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My SL 7 started as a 3 a couple sessions ago. He was a FR 670 ish at the time. We told the LO at the time that he was by far the best shooter in the league, LO said to just let the system work. week one he played a SL 6. He got a "Rackless", "Break and Run", and a "I beat a 6 " patch in the first night! 🤪 :ROFLMAO:

Week 2 he was a SL 5. Beat another SL 6 4-0 with another BnR and 4 total innings.

Week 3 he was an SL7 where he has remained.

Then I stand corrected. I never heard from our LO (I honestly don't know if she even owns the league anymore), so I will reach out to National.

For the record - I'm a numbers guy and want to know the details, without the details people eat a lot of crow (see previous sentence :)).
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Then I stand corrected. I never heard from our LO (I honestly don't know if she even owns the league anymore), so I will reach out to National.

For the record - I'm a numbers guy and want to know the details, without the details people eat a lot of crow (see previous sentence :)).
I don't know how it all works. My LO seems to think the handicapping system is as Top Secret as the aliens at Area 51. You can't even ask him about it. All he will say is "I put the match results in, and it gives me the skill level. I don't know how it works other than that"
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My SL 7 started as a 3 a couple sessions ago. He was a FR 670 ish at the time. We told the LO at the time that he was by far the best shooter in the league, LO said to just let the system work. week one he played a SL 6. He got a "Rackless", "Break and Run", and a "I beat a 6 " patch in the first night! 🤪 :ROFLMAO:

Week 2 he was a SL 5. Beat another SL 6 4-0 with another BnR and 4 total innings.

Week 3 he was an SL7 where he has remained.

That is not a great thing to "just let the system work" since there are 2 weeks of losses to the other players, which I guess is OK for them since their handicaps will stay lower but not really "fair play". And they have "I beat a 6" patch? What is the point of that? I mean it's technically "I beat a player that is OK but not great" patch. There is a "I beat the LO" patch in our league, but she is like a high C player so it's not very hard LOL
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't know how it all works. My LO seems to think the handicapping system is as Top Secret as the aliens at Area 51. You can't even ask him about it. All he will say is "I put the match results in, and it gives me the skill level. I don't know how it works other than that"

That's usually a good way to prevent dissention among the players but I know our LO has discussed the process, I just don't remember what it is.

Someone earlier said something about setting a minimum, that IS a manual change to their SL, is it not? Come in as a 3, someone says they're a 6, LO sets minimum to 6?
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Whether the local LO does it or they recommend it to National I don't know, but I guarantee a LO has the ability to change a players setting - you'll just have to trust me on that.
And I can guarantee that you are correct, sir. 100%.

The evidence I have is too long to type. I've mentioned a lot of it before in previous APA threads.

Maniac
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
One league night for me was really funny, there is a point limit in USAPL like most leagues, you can still play but you get penalized for going over. One time we only had some stronger players that were there so we went over the team limit. We played, we won every match by like 5-1, 5-2 in games won, but lost the night because of the handicaps and the penalty for going over the limit once the points were all added up LOL Communism at it's best, work hard, get good, beat the ass off someone, and they get handed the win.
And yet you post on this thread and somewhat criticize the APA??? (post #4774)

Just sayin'.

Maniac
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
That is not a great thing to "just let the system work" since there are 2 weeks of losses to the other players, which I guess is OK for them since their handicaps will stay lower but not really "fair play".
At some point, logistics plays a part. Unless the LO's divisions plays out of one community, or a couple adjacent communities, it will be next to impossible to "fairly" assess a new players potential ability.

In our little corner of the world, our LO has between 12 and 15 different divisions (or more, I suppose) playing in several communities covering over 200 miles of the state. How is he gonna see all the new players that start in the league?

Is it perfect to let the system sort it out, no. Does it suck to get run over by a super strong player that isn't at his correct skill level yet, sure. (We have fun with it in our division, when there is a strong known player coming in, folks will try and get a game off them, or what not. The 7 on my current team is a good example. He was on a different team when he started, I got him a few weeks into the first session, he was at 5 at that point, my skill level. I didn't let him skunk me! We had fun.) It's only a few weeks, and its making the best of the situation.
 

Bigkat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
💡💡(I'm SL7 in 8ball etc) LO's CAN CHANGE SOMEONE'S RANKINGS!! TRUST ME!! IT HAPPENED TO ME & I WAS OKAY WITH IT. :cool:
Let me Explain. When I first started APA, as a male, I had to come in as a "4". But, skill wise I was a 7 in 8ball or a 9in 9ball. I had NEVER played in any league but played with some other the better players and gamblers in the city. So, on the first night I told my team captain, place me against the BEST player they have. He was a "6" in 8 ball. I was a "4" :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:. I made one 8 on the break, broke and ran another and the other details are fuzzy. I just know that my opponent didn't win any games. So, EVERYONE in the world is in an uproar about me being a "4" but it was my FIRST TIME EVER PLAYING APA. So, I got tired of all the noise. ALSO, I DIDN"T NEED THE HANDICAP OF BEING A "4" (although it helped my team). So, I called the league operator, told them who I was, told him the situation, told him my real "SPEED" and some known players that I played with. Next week I was a SL "7" 8 ball & SL "9" in 9 ball AND I HAVE REMAINED THER EVERYSINCE!!!!!!
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Won another match that I probably shouldn't have last night, lol. I guess there's something to hanging in there and being ready when the opportunity arises. Shot better than I did the previous week, that was what was most important to me, corrected a couple mechanical issues, progress. Baby steps. Heh.
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Got to play efren a game tonight as a part of league appreciation.

I had him beat and simply choked on an easy 8, I was like ok so I beat efren oooof!

He had a good laugh with me super fun.

I can somehow beat the two 600 plus players I faced tonight but I still remain losing to the 450 and under club
Ridiculous
 

BlueRaider

Registered
My captain was cool with me significantly cutting back on the nights I need to show up so I’m back for another session. It was getting to be a bit of a slog going every week or close to it. Only having to show up 5-6 times a session makes it much more manageable.

Anyway I managed to double-dip a 7 in 8 ball and 9 ball tonight. Kicking saved me in both games. I think I only gave up BIH twice even though I hooked myself, got safetied, or he missed and hooked me too many times to count.

He also missed it or left so many combos on the 9 ball. He would run 5-6 balls and I’d feel discouraged, then he would leave a 9 ball for me, I’d make it, make 2 on the break, and then run a few from there. He would have stomped me points wise if he hadn’t given up so many easy 9s, which typically turn into 5-6 point swings minimum.
 

Willowbrook Wolfy

Your wushu is weak!
Gold Member
Little update on that APA league I joined. My woes continued this weekend. I just can’t win 8 ball. These rules can seriously change a game. Now I think I finally know them all. Today found out

1) no roll outs in 9ball
2) you get 2 chances to break if you miscue
3) 2 4’s only race to 3 not 4 in 8.
4) no 3 foul

None of these rules make a lot of sense to me. Especially why not just race to 4. 3 game race isn’t much and you have to pay dues to play. Should be race 4. I think Even 2 3’s should race to 4. Some of the matches today went way over an hour. It was getting kind of stupid. But IMO 2 4’s really should be 4/4 not 3/3. On the 2 break chances. Idk. If your opponent is on hill and miscues their break who here is giving them another crack at it when not in league?

Anyway. today I won my 9 ball match by 10 balls. Then 8 ball came. Ran the rack and accidentally double nipped the 8 into the side on a long shot down the rail in game one. Darn! Game 2 my opponent slopped his first to last ball(game changer on bs rule) then proceeded to win. Game 3 he scratched the 8 after making a great kick shot I had left him with. A 4 doesn’t usually make that shot. So he deserved the game, but choked. Won game 4. Then hill/hill I get up to break. Worst case scenario. What happens. 8 on the break and scratch!. Oh well. I should’ve used the 2 chances to break rule. Can I do that? Boom the break then say I miscued and need it back? I’ll try next time😉Maybe league isn’t my thing. My enemy was playing decent for a 4. Pushing a light 5, but 1 of his 3 wins never happens without that slop rule. I think 8-9 innings total on the match. It was quick.
No more complaining here. I hope everyone else is doing better in league and I’ll save the next update a few weeks out when my levels level………………Good luck!🍀
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Especially why not just race to 4. 3 game race isn’t much and you have to pay dues to play. Should be race 4. I think Even 2 3’s should race to 4. Some of the matches today went way over an hour. It was getting kind of stupid. But IMO 2 4’s really should be 4/4 not 3/3. On the 2 break chances. Idk.
You realize that you provided the reasoning behind the shorter race along with the your criticism, right...? APA nights are already painfully long. I don't want to imagine how much worse it would be if they lengthened SL 2,3 or even 4's sets. I understand your thoughts about them paying the same weekly dues, but if it's about table time, then they have nothing to cripe about as they usually get more than anyone else...lol.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
My house league night won't be having playoffs this year. Due to multiple covid lockdowns and the odd number of teams we don't have enough time to balance out the bye weeks and do playoffs. ...so the call was made to complete the season (equal amount of bye weeks for everyone) and fore go playoffs. The standings will determine pay outs. Which is fine as my team has a decent lead over the 2nd place team.

Things are chugging along ok in Masters as well. We're currently in first with a couple more nights remaining. Of course all that amounts to is a bye in the first round of the playoffs in April. Any team that makes playoffs in my Masters league has the ability to snap off the win if the stars align so it should be fun.

I'm not playing the best but still finding a way to win so it's all good.
 

cjl0s

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I am slumping a little after a hot start to this session. It all comes down to concentration as I am looking past certain shots. Missed an easy cut shot in game 1 on the 8 to win. In the end, lost hill hill to another 6. He made a nice tough kick to win the last rack after I safed him. It should not have gotten that far. Need to focus as it is getting in my head a little. I cannot control how my opponent plays with the table he gets short of locking him up better. But I need to focus on what I can control and being courageous when needed. The final shot to make was a bank and I was too fearful. Things to work on... I love this game.
 

Willowbrook Wolfy

Your wushu is weak!
Gold Member
You realize that you provided the reasoning behind the shorter race along with the your criticism, right...? APA nights are already painfully long. I don't want to imagine how much worse it would be if they lengthened SL 2,3 or even 4's sets. I understand your thoughts about them paying the same weekly dues, but if it's about table time, then they have nothing to cripe about as they usually get more than anyone else...lol.
Good point. That was my inner hustler talking…..I gotta remember while at league you only get one set. I keep going in trying to figure out my opponents weaknesses the first couple games instead of focusing on winning.
 
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