How can we as players really tell if an Aiming System is a Gimmick or not!!!!!

manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Well here it is another thread concerning Aiming Systems, I know for certain that many are kinda getting tired of all these threads helpful or not. I use a specific method of approach to playing pool that I learned partly from others and partly through trial and error. I believe that everyone must learn and reinforce basic fundamentals, such as, Stance, Stroke and method used to Aim.

However, I also wonder which of these fundamentals is more important or are they only effective if they are combined in a functioning method that an individual has developed over time through practice. You see I do believe that everyone does need a Method for Aiming, but I do not believe that Aiming alone will solve the problems that many players experience as they are learning. I believe that all the fundamentals must be learned as apart of the whole package to work properly. I don't believe there is any major advantage to one Aiming system over another, just like I do not believe that everyone must have a like Stroke or stance to pocket balls.

I believe that each of us must find through practice what will work best for us, some may be able to copy methods used by another person, and others may not, some may even have a great deal of natural ability to start with that others don't have. However, how long it will take you achieve your goals as a pool player will be based upon all these things and since no two of us are alike there can be no guaranty made by anyone how long it will take.

None of these methods are a short cut only a practice method that must be fine tuned over time by building confidence and Muscle Memory, nothing comes easy for most of us and more than anything else this is why so few truly excel in this sport.

JIMO
 
For me an aiming system is not a gimmick if everyone has to make a new thread talking about it every two days. If the opponent of said aiming system have to make threads upon threads upon threads about it then it's valid and concrete and they just want to cause drama.

An aiming system screams gimmick to me when it's brought out and no one is interested. When people take it to the table and find that it doesn't work then that says gimmick.

In fact I can't actually think of any aiming systems that are gimmicks. That is if you think of gimmicks using this definition from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimmick

I can think of several aiming systems and methods that are contestable. Some which engender contempt and endless threads.

Due to the fact that many people attest to having achieved better shotmaking percentages using these systems I have to conclude that either they are lying deliberately, are totally stupid and foolling themselves or they are intelligent and observant enough to know when they are performing better. I choose to trust them and believe the third option. Doing that relieves me from considering the method of aiming that they are using as a gimmick.
 
if you can't stroke straight there isn't a system on earth that can help you...

if you can stroke straight several systems could be viable..

stroke is king

systems ..including diamond systems and kicking systems not just aiming systems..

they are just gravy...

gravy without potatoes is pretty useless...
 
The books and dvd's that start out with, "if you don't have good straight stroke no aiming system will help you." There are so many things you need in your game before any good aiming system will help you. Johnnyt
 
When you stand at the table and pocket balls for 20 minutes and dont miss a ball and win 3 consecutive tournaments.That convinced me I am on the right track.If your not stroking straight,then that does not have anything to do with an aiming system being a gimmick .That is 2 completely different things.
 
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manwon said:
Well here it is another thread concerning Aiming Systems, I know for certain that many are kinda getting tired of all these threads helpful or not. I use a specific method of approach to playing pool that I learned partly from others and partly through trial and error. I believe that everyone must learn and reinforce basic fundamentals, such as, Stance, Stroke and method used to Aim.

However, I also wonder which of these fundamentals is more important or are they only effective if they are combined in a functioning method that an individual has developed over time through practice. You see I do believe that everyone does need a Method for Aiming, but I do not believe that Aiming alone will solve the problems that many players experience as they are learning. I believe that all the fundamentals must be learned as apart of the whole package to work properly. I don't believe there is any major advantage to one Aiming system over another, just like I do not believe that everyone must have a like Stroke or stance to pocket balls.

I believe that each of us must find through practice what will work best for us, some may be able to copy methods used by another person, and others may not, some may even have a great deal of natural ability to start with that others don't have. However, how long it will take you achieve your goals as a pool player will be based upon all these things and since no two of us are alike there can be no guaranty made by anyone how long it will take.

None of these methods are a short cut only a practice method that must be fine tuned over time by building confidence and Muscle Memory, nothing comes easy for most of us and more than anything else this is why so few truly excel in this sport.

JIMO
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I just only thought Johnny was my hero. I now, in front of all, proclaim a mancrush. I tried, but did not say it better.
 
If it's called an "aiming system" it's a gimmick.

Dave Nelson

When I was a kid, rotation was 5 cents a rack, we had never heard of snooker and couldn't afford Orange Crush.
 
aiming sysytems

I don't think any good aiming system is a gimmick. I have tried several different ones and they all work for me. It just depends on how bad you want one. It takes alot of practice and practice. If you don"t want to put anything in it, then it will only work sometimes.
Find a system you like or want and stick with it.
I am done rambling, just had to throw my two cents in.

thanks
Dave
 
Pool, toothbrushes, gimmicks and brownies......

ThePoliteSniper said:
If it's being discussed on AZB you will know it's a gimmick.
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naw some are worth their weight in gold like some of the mechanical techniques we discuss...If ghost ball and CTE are gimmicks then you should have a brownie.

a gimmick is when your selling to some toothbrushes with a box of brownies you got from your sisters house before you tripped in the backyard and dropped them in some dog shit put them back in the box and went to the air port and asked;

"Hey would you like a brownie?"

"Sure, Sure"..........."Uhhhhh this tastes like shit!!!"

"It is shit, would you like to buy a toothbrush?"

-Grey Ghost
 
I can feel balls in pretty well. I can see the line and drop on it. What I've found with aiming systems are just that - they're systems and "systematic."

NONE of them are over-night fixes or patches for one's game. I've said a number of times it took me 6-months of solid practice to have my "new" game over-take my "old" game. I know it took Stan Shuffett about the same amount of time.

What I've found over the last 5 years is that my level of play has stabilized considerably (meaning, I don't have a lot of lot of bad days anymore--- not saying I don't slump -- we ALL do--- but slumps only last a session or two and I snap out of it).

Aiming systems, once mastered, BECOME your pre-shot routine. They become a structure for the way you go about things. They force me to approach each shot the same way.

I know a lot of guys on here tout "put it in the hole" and that's great. However, "put it in the hole over the long run with consistency and under pressure" is a different animal altogether. Those who can do that more than likely have a WELL defined pre-shot routine (the way a pro golfer approaches each shot, for example).

It's my hypothesis that ALL high level players approach aiming in a completely systematic way (even feel players). Approaching shots in a random way would only prolong your advancement as a player and confuse your mind when it comes to parsing the information it's trying to gather after every made/missed shot.

If you don't do things in a systematic way, how on earth can you learn what's going wrong and how to fix it?

It's all about pre-shot routine and advanced introspection. "imo"
 
All aiming systems are nothing more than tools to help you determine where you want to send the cue ball. So any system that helps you do that consistently is not a gimick.

Anyone who claims they have the ultimate system that will work for everybody is selling something.

Bottom line is that you have to know where to aim, and have a cue ball delivery system (stroke) that can get the cue ball there. Any aiming system that works is going to get the cue ball to the same place, since there is only one "right" place to aim for any given shot.

If a system works for you, it's not a gimick. But let's face the fact that no aiming system is going to let anyone make every shot every time. If such a system existed, pool would be the most boring game ever invented. Whoever won the coin toss for the break would be the automatic winner.

Steve
 
mikepage said:
The quick way is to find out what Bob Jewett thinks of it
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And I'm easy. Any system can help some player.

The harder question which I tend to be interested in is whether a system, as described, makes any sense from the point of view of physics and geometry. That's where we get pointlessly bogged down. Most people don't really care about the answer to this second question.

A general discussion of how to look at aiming systems is HERE.
 
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Some of the great player of yesteryear played great Pool with out magic

An "Aiming System" like any other "System" may or may not work for one person, and work GREAT for another person. I have seen many Pool Instructional DVD's and VHS's. Some I liked and some are PURE CRAP!. IMHO there is not much NEW in pool that works, but many people like those in corporate america, now how to repackage old stuff to sound new, and wonderful.

Some of the great player of yesteryear played great Pool with out magic shafts, magic tips, magic chalk, or some of the recent invention sold to pool players. Two of these player were named Willie!

IMHO is your basics are poo poo you will not make balls no matter what secret system of aiming you know, or are trying to learn.
 
Bob Jewett said:
And I'm easy. Any system can help some player.

The harder question which I tend to be interested in is whether a system, as described, makes any sense from the point of view of physics and geometry. That's where we get pointlessly bogged down. Most people don't really care about the answer to this second question.
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We do care but since we are not geometricans we can't diagram the action we are taking to make the system work.

I care a lot that CTE has not yet been diagrammed sufficiently enough to bridge the gap between those who think it's a gimmick and those who have tried it and find use in it.

Today I tried very hard to use ghost ball on all my shots and failed horribly. I just can't do it. For whatever reason even though I know GB is geometrically correct I can't see it consistently. I am too thick, to thin, not even close it's just not there for me. If I use a training aid then it works every time as advertised.

I don't know WHY Hal's systems work. Subconscious adjustment? Ok fine. Tell me how it's possible to start with a known reference point which is according to you not geometrically linked to the ghost ball line which is geometrically correct and somehow I get to the ghostball line from there? Especially when I can't reliably get to the ghost ball line by using the ghostball method?

If we accept the premise that succesfully making the shot means I must have found the GB line how did I get there?

So let's assume that you are correct and the only way to get there is through subconsious adjustment. Well if so and it results in a player having a higher percentage of success then that system or method is totally valid in my opinion even if it can't be diagrammed geometrically by the average person.

I really want to go out and buy a bunch of laser pointers and figure this out.

Maybe someday the two sides will figure it out and come to a consensus.

It only took 4000 years for western scientists to discover why acupuncture works.
 
I do not believe that it is advantageous for a novice player to study an aiming system. It is my opinion that they (aiming systems) do more harm than good and only serve to impede and prolong a new players progress.
Yesterday I introduced the 'Intermedie-Petey' system to the forum. As it turns out, it had an uncanny similarity to the P.I.I.T.H. method and boy was my face red.
Today I am introducing a completely new system that is ridiculously elegant in it's simplicity. It is called the Monkey See, Monkey Do system, or MSMD for short.
The new pool player should, if deserious about learning to play pool, hang around a pool hall as much as possible, and prefferably one that has nine-foot tables. I do not recommend hanging out in bars for obvious reasons.
The new player should quietly watch other players, especially the very good ones, play pool. Their observations should include the fundementals of stance, grip, bridge, etc., with particular attention given to how the good player addresses the object ball and executes the shot.
The new player should then go to a table alone and begin shooting balls. Ball, after ball, after ball. In time, this action will pay off. The unconscious mind will meld his or her observations of others with the time spent practicing shots, and the new player will develope at a good pace. Once a new player has become known around the room they are free to ask questions of better players and the pace will quicken.
What I have described is they way that I learned to play pool, and I'm a good pool player. Almost all the people I know who play pool have learned this very same way, and I'll wager that thousands of members of this forum have developed their skills in this same manner.
In conclusion, I believe that aiming systems are gimmicky in as much as they give the illusion of a quick-fix when in reality there is none.
Thanks for listening. :smile:
 
Tramp Steamer said:
I do not believe that it is advantageous for a novice player to study an aiming system. It is my opinion that they (aiming systems) do more harm than good and only serve to impede and prolong a new players progress.
Yesterday I introduced the 'Intermedie-Petey' system to the forum. As it turns out, it had an uncanny similarity to the P.I.I.T.H. method and boy was my face red.
Today I am introducing a completely new system that is ridiculously elegant in it's simplicity. It is called the Monkey See, Monkey Do system, or MSMD for short.
The new pool player should, if deserious about learning to play pool, hang around a pool hall as much as possible, and prefferably one that has nine-foot tables. I do not recommend hanging out in bars for obvious reasons.
The new player should quietly watch other players, especially the very good ones, play pool. Their observations should include the fundementals of stance, grip, bridge, etc., with particular attention given to how the good player addresses the object ball and executes the shot.
The new player should then go to a table alone and begin shooting balls. Ball, after ball, after ball. In time, this action will pay off. The unconscious mind will meld his or her observations of others with the time spent practicing shots, and the new player will develope at a good pace. Once a new player has become known around the room they are free to ask questions of better players and the pace will quicken.
What I have described is they way that I learned to play pool, and I'm a good pool player. Almost all the people I know who play pool have learned this very same way, and I'll wager that thousands of members of this forum have developed their skills in this same manner.
In conclusion, I believe that aiming systems are gimmicky in as much as they give the illusion of a quick-fix when in reality there is none.
Thanks for listening. :smile:
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Great post, Tramp. You should feel good about it.

Roger
 
softshot said:
if you can't stroke straight there isn't a system on earth that can help you...

if you can stroke straight several systems could be viable..

stroke is king

systems ..including diamond systems and kicking systems not just aiming systems..

they are just gravy...

gravy without potatoes is pretty useless...
Click to expand...

very well said!!! practice!
 
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