How does Shane get the white in the air everytime??

poolpop63 said:
when you hit that 1 ball square, the cue ball has a certain amount of energy depending on how hard it is hit. The rack of balls has a certain amount of mass or resting energy. the cue ball can't go left...right..or down...so the only place for it to go is up..... nowhere but up.
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You forgot back (uptable), which is where the cue ball goes unless it's off the cloth when it hits the headball. If it leaves the table, there's energy being wasted lifting the cue ball.

pj
chgo
 
Actually, I think it is a near perfect break when the cue ball jumps "straight" up about a foot and back to the table where contact was made. No power is lost. It is a pure center hit.
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It's not a "pure center" hit - the only way the CB can hop is if it's off the cloth when it hits the headball.

And power is "lost" - the only way the CB can hop is if some power that could have been transmitted to the rack is instead lifting the CB.

In other words, if you hit the headball at the same speed but the CB doesn't hop, you get more OB movement.

pj
chgo
 
Has Shane's break never been clocked? Considering how everyone marvels at the effectiveness of his break, and that the measuring equipment is not hard to come by, I find it very hard to believe that nobody's measured his break speed yet.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
Has Shane's break never been clocked? Considering how everyone marvels at the effectiveness of his break, and that the measuring equipment is not hard to come by, I find it very hard to believe that nobody's measured his break speed yet.

Aaron
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If you look at Mosconiac's videos earlier in this post it does not seem like he is breaking hard. Certainly looks to be less than 20 MPH and perhaps closer to 15.
 
Bigkahuna said:
If you look at Mosconiac's videos earlier in this post it does not seem like he is breaking hard. Certainly looks to be less than 20 MPH and perhaps closer to 15.
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Completely anectdotal, but I'd say without a doubt that it's higher than 20 and closer to 25. His motion is just so relaxed that it doesn't seem all that fast. But, being right next to him you can hear how heavy his break is.

That being said, I don't know if he slows it down for the bar boxes.

I'm sure he's been clocked.

Fred
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It's not a "pure center" hit - the only way the CB can hop is if it's off the cloth when it hits the headball.

And power is "lost" - the only way the CB can hop is if some power that could have been transmitted to the rack is instead lifting the CB.

In other words, if you hit the headball at the same speed but the CB doesn't hop, you get more OB movement.

pj
chgo
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It's pure center as opposed to right or left... and the power loss would be so insignificant, if any at all, that it would be next to impossible to measure.
 
Cornerman said:
Completely anectdotal, but I'd say without a doubt that it's higher than 20 and closer to 25. His motion is just so relaxed that it doesn't seem all that fast. But, being right next to him you can hear how heavy his break is.

That being said, I don't know if he slows it down for the bar boxes.

I'm sure he's been clocked.

Fred
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Yeah. I'm not sure what it is, but something makes me want to guess about 25 as well. Probably the sound combined with the spread he gets. If he really is getting up there around 25, then that's an awful lot of power for such a seemingly effortless motion.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
Yeah. I'm not sure what it is, but something makes me want to guess about 25 as well. Probably the sound combined with the spread he gets. If he really is getting up there around 25, then that's an awful lot of power for such a seemingly effortless motion.

Aaron
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I know that we were watching Neil Fujiwara (FartSniffer) breaking with a dual sensor speed meter at VF, and he was getting over 25 mph with his similarly effortless break stroke. Talent can be sickening.

Fred
 
Bigjohn said:
It's pure center as opposed to right or left...
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Oh, OK. I agree with that.

...and the power loss would be so insignificant, if any at all, that it would be next to impossible to measure.
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Imagine if you could get underneath the CB and shoot it straight up in the air the same distance that Shane's CB hops up in the air. How much force would it take? Not a huge amount, but not "next to impossible to measure" either. I bet if you hit the CB horizontally with that amount of force it'd roll close to two table lengths. If one of the OBs rolled an extra two table lengths (or if four of them rolled an extra table width each), something good could happen.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
You forgot back (uptable), which is where the cue ball goes unless it's off the cloth when it hits the headball. If it leaves the table, there's energy being wasted lifting the cue ball.

pj
chgo
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IMO, any way you slice it...he's not "wasting" energy because he's using the hop to control his CB...
 
It's not a hard break at all. He's probably only putting about 50% into it anyway. His break shot is a jump shot. It hops on its way to the rack. That's why it pops up every time. He's very consistent with it because he hits the head ball dead center.

Watch some of the girls to see how to maximize your power. I'd guess GYK and XTP are breaking at 90% with control.
 
That is so simple. He knows exactly when to hop, what kind of hop, where the other balls are during the hop and of course what type of english to hop it with! Presto the perfect hop break splained..
Dan
 
Bigkahuna said:
Analyze this............

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View attachment 80183

Athletic, but I'd say kind of gymnastic.
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Sold! I would like to take immediate delivery. ;-)

Edit: damn! how do you get a picture to show when you quote? I wanted a second look at Jasmine! She has a pretty sporty break herself. No so much cue ball control though. Strangely that doesn't bother me in the least when watching her ...well, do just about anything.

KMRUNOUT
 
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Bigjohn said:
It's pure center as opposed to right or left... and the power loss would be so insignificant, if any at all, that it would be next to impossible to measure.
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(playing devils advocate)...

This is not true. The power lost is quite measureable. All you have to do is determine the exact height the cueball goes up. This allows you to calculate the power used in raising the cueball to that height. The amount is not insignificant. I bet it is in the order of about 1-4% of the total power. I would say that at the upper exchelon of breaking, this little percent difference represents real iprovement.

That being said, there are limits to how hard you can hit the ball and not get a hop. I think over 20 mph (my guess) and you WILL get a hop. So you have to decide to break less than 20 mph, or accept the hop. Now the question is whether the energy lost to the cueball being slightly higher than the head ball outweighs the increased power of a faster speed. I would say that in all but a totally jacked up jump stroke, it does not. Hence, if you want maximum power, you must offer maximum velocity of the cueball to the headball with as square a hit as possible, and also as level a stroke as possible. You will get a hop and you just need to live with that. Someone show me video of a 25mph break in which the cueball does not hop at all. I would love to see this.

KMRUNOUT
 
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