How fast is this table?
- Thread starter JoeW
- Start date
No, it's exactly the other way around. On a "fast" table, the cue ball seems to roll forever. The cue ball slows down slowly. It takes it a long time to get from the far rail to the near one. It may be contrary to logic, but that's the way it's called.JoeW said:
Carom cloth is generally the fastest cloth around, and I have seen 200-speed cloth.
JoeW said:
Every table will be different no two tables the same with this test. Your testing on old dirty cloth a table that got level 1-10 years ago on carpet never releveled after the carpet settled 3-4 months after it was recovered.
Balls 1-10 years old out of round etc.etc. to many variables and no absolute postive benchmark to test by did you do the same test when the table was new and retested after ever recover. Your test is a great idea if you have a true starting point for consistency, this way we can all test different cloths witch one is truely faster and not rely on here say but on benchmarks 100%new equipment and then run test on old equipment IE... rubber and brands.
The glass trick nice idea but would never work unless its 2" thick glass it bends and flexes to much plus pool cloth might be thinner @ one end thin the other. best option is to take your cloth off and put the ball directly on the slate thats what i do When i level a table this way i can check for warped slates and to make sure my Machinest level is still working correctly..there my benchmark before the cloth goes on and i show the customer and let them roll a ball or two on it when there happy then the bed cloth goes on.
I could on and on but its easier for me to show it and talk it then to sit here and type and upset people by mistake..
Best of luck with this test
Craig
JoeW said:
Pool is a feel game, and that feel includes cloth speed. Change the balls and the rolls vary. Change cue balls and all sorts of things vary. Play on a humid day and find out what slow is really all about. Then turn on the air conditioner and notice how the table speeds up.
I think fast or slow or normal are relative terms when talking about tables. That being said, table 6 at Chris's in Chicago is one slow rollin', tight pocketed table. Table 7 there has buckets and plays fast. Table 10 has the tightest pockets in the joint, and plays a bit slow.
The really good guys adapt and adjust to table speed and ball condition and humidity and so on quite well.
No need to engineer a ramp to find out if a table is slow, normal, or fast. Just play on it... Won't take long at all to get a feel for what is fast, slow, normal...
Flex
I put the glass on the cloth after the table is set up. It covers a larger aea for calculating level and crosses the slate pieces. The table can be leveled at any time. Glass can be warped but you would also see this in a heart beat.
I agree that one gets the speed as one plays. I also think it is good to have a benchmark for how fast or slow is my table today and how fast or slow is the next table I play on. Just a place to start from and get up to speed all that much faster.
Bob is undoubtedly right about how to define the speed of the cloth, so I will call mine ball speed -- for lack of a better term. Thinking in seconds to return and diamonds of ball speed increase or decrease is easy for this head to use.
For those who think this is all useless, wouldn't it be nice to walk up to a different table, drop six balls off the rails and say to yourself -- OK this table is about one diamond faster than the one I am used to playing on?
Or playing a lag shot with a stop watch and determing that it that ball return is 9 seconds not your standard 7 seconds, slow table and two diamonds different than what I am used to.
BTW I like the banded bic pens, perhaps on a piece of chalk. Might make a nice ramp. Have to try that when I get home.
Wife and I are leaving on a trip, see you guys in a few days.
I agree that one gets the speed as one plays. I also think it is good to have a benchmark for how fast or slow is my table today and how fast or slow is the next table I play on. Just a place to start from and get up to speed all that much faster.
Bob is undoubtedly right about how to define the speed of the cloth, so I will call mine ball speed -- for lack of a better term. Thinking in seconds to return and diamonds of ball speed increase or decrease is easy for this head to use.
For those who think this is all useless, wouldn't it be nice to walk up to a different table, drop six balls off the rails and say to yourself -- OK this table is about one diamond faster than the one I am used to playing on?
Or playing a lag shot with a stop watch and determing that it that ball return is 9 seconds not your standard 7 seconds, slow table and two diamonds different than what I am used to.
BTW I like the banded bic pens, perhaps on a piece of chalk. Might make a nice ramp. Have to try that when I get home.
Wife and I are leaving on a trip, see you guys in a few days.
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I like the idea if posting test results because maybe if some guy gets absurd roll or really bad roll, we can find something useful out, like worn Granito speeds up more than worn simonis, or something like that. Some people might also be playing on weird cloth and not even know it. "What, all these different people get 3 diamonds? My home table gets one! I thought I couldn't draw cuz I sucked but it turns out the cloth is lousy."
JoeW said:
I want to try this but I am not sure if you left out some criticle details; or I am just reading wrong?
Do I put the CB right on the cushion, then lag to end rail, (here is where I am confused), start stop watch then stop it when CB makes it's way back to the rail where I lagged from, Or do I start watch when CB touches the end rail?(provided I lag with a good stop right on the rail)? I am thinking it's when CB is first hit, and if so then this means I need a second person accurate enough to start the watch on the correct time.
Brunswick does not take special orders or custom orders.The pro's don't even get special treatment.
Now they have changed the Metro and the Gold Crown.
They have there home editions and the Tour edition tables.The difference tighter pockets.Rail extensions from the factory.
They have made sum changes to the new Gold Crown rail cap.I'm sure pictures will be available soon.All I can say is it looks even better.
Now they have changed the Metro and the Gold Crown.
They have there home editions and the Tour edition tables.The difference tighter pockets.Rail extensions from the factory.
They have made sum changes to the new Gold Crown rail cap.I'm sure pictures will be available soon.All I can say is it looks even better.
To figure your cloth speed, square 7.5 and multiply by 2 as described above. Then multiply that by 98/d where d is the distance the ball traveled after contacting the foot cushion.tjlmbklr said:
For instance, if you made a perfect lag and the length of your table is 88", multiply by 98/86. (Subtract 2" from your table length to account for the ball's diameter.) If it's 92" long (oversized 8'), multiply by 98/90.
If you didn't make a perfect lag, just measure the distance it traveled after coming off the foot rail and use that for d. The closer the lag comes to the head rail without hitting it, the better, but it doesn't have to be perfect.
It's not necessary to start the cueball off at any particular distance from the foot rail. It's the second leg of the journey, after contacting the cushion, that counts.
Hope that helps.
Jim
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The JAL type of measurement would be needed to get an estimate for “competition speed” on an 8 footer.
It would be necessary to redo these numbers with the ball drop method on an eight footer though I suspect they will be similar. On an eight foot table the ball dropped from the head rail might go a little farther for competition speed say 3 diamonds plus one ball or something like that.
In my version, lag the cue ball from one diamond right of center on the head rail and placed two diamonds towards the foot rail (usual lag shot). Start the stop watch when the CB hits the bottom rail. There is a noticeable “thunk.” The CB should come within one inch (or so) of the head rail on its return and it should stop on it’s own.
On a 9’ competition table this should take about 7 seconds. Each second longer implies the CB will be one diamond slower than a competition table. Each second faster suggests that the table will be one diamond faster than a competition table.
Actually I like both methods, the ball drop is quite easy to do and you can get a quick feel for the current CB speed given humidity, heat etc. The lag method is more precise but requires a stop watch and a few shots to get the lag speed correct.
Dropping six balls from the three diamonds on the head and foot rail of a table I have not played on before tells me quite abit about the table, relative to the one I usually play on.
People talk about the idea that you just have to play to get a feel for a table but I wonder how many people knew that CB speed is nearly one diamond different from the head and from the foot rail on some tables. After learning this, my positional play has improved a little and every little bit helps in my book.
It would be necessary to redo these numbers with the ball drop method on an eight footer though I suspect they will be similar. On an eight foot table the ball dropped from the head rail might go a little farther for competition speed say 3 diamonds plus one ball or something like that.
In my version, lag the cue ball from one diamond right of center on the head rail and placed two diamonds towards the foot rail (usual lag shot). Start the stop watch when the CB hits the bottom rail. There is a noticeable “thunk.” The CB should come within one inch (or so) of the head rail on its return and it should stop on it’s own.
On a 9’ competition table this should take about 7 seconds. Each second longer implies the CB will be one diamond slower than a competition table. Each second faster suggests that the table will be one diamond faster than a competition table.
Actually I like both methods, the ball drop is quite easy to do and you can get a quick feel for the current CB speed given humidity, heat etc. The lag method is more precise but requires a stop watch and a few shots to get the lag speed correct.
Dropping six balls from the three diamonds on the head and foot rail of a table I have not played on before tells me quite abit about the table, relative to the one I usually play on.
People talk about the idea that you just have to play to get a feel for a table but I wonder how many people knew that CB speed is nearly one diamond different from the head and from the foot rail on some tables. After learning this, my positional play has improved a little and every little bit helps in my book.
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On my 9 ft Diamond Pro with 1 1/2 month old 860 and clean balls rolled 3 diamonds from each end when nudged.--Leonard
JoeW said:
To be really consistent, it would be necessary to do this test every half diamond or so along all the rails, because rails are not necessarily equal in rebound strength, and dead spots, or semi-dead spots will affect play, of course.
I guess nothing really compares to playing for quite some time on a table, and testing the rails and cloth on it systematically.
Now, tell me how many tables and the way they play you can effectively memorize in a given pool room, let alone figure how much short or long they play, and how long will you be able to retain that practical memory in an active way for the time when you are planning that three rail position shot?
Feel, it's really all about feel.
Flex
For Pete's Sakes
You glue 2 popsickle sticks together and slip into your case. You put the sticks on either 1 or 2 stacked pieces of chalk and let the cue ball roll down the sticks.
Another test - just line up on end rail with cue ball, middle diamond, and see how many end-to-end rails you get. 4 is about normal, anything over
4.5 is fast. 5-6 is real fast.
Another test is to lay a dollar bill down on the head end rail between the first diamond (on the right) and the corner. Do the 9 rail shot where the
cue ball has to land on the dollar. If it makes all the way, it is a fast table.
(Tom Rossman and Mike Massey have done this one).
You glue 2 popsickle sticks together and slip into your case. You put the sticks on either 1 or 2 stacked pieces of chalk and let the cue ball roll down the sticks.
Another test - just line up on end rail with cue ball, middle diamond, and see how many end-to-end rails you get. 4 is about normal, anything over
4.5 is fast. 5-6 is real fast.
Another test is to lay a dollar bill down on the head end rail between the first diamond (on the right) and the corner. Do the 9 rail shot where the
cue ball has to land on the dollar. If it makes all the way, it is a fast table.
(Tom Rossman and Mike Massey have done this one).
Every surface has a different coefficient of friction for:
static friction (a rolling ball - tested by your example)
kinetic friction (a sliding ball)
You will see some nappy bar table cloth with a really high coefficient of static friction. You hit the shot hard, it bounces off the object ball with a lot of speed for 1 foot then just dies magically.
static friction (a rolling ball - tested by your example)
kinetic friction (a sliding ball)
You will see some nappy bar table cloth with a really high coefficient of static friction. You hit the shot hard, it bounces off the object ball with a lot of speed for 1 foot then just dies magically.