How Fractional Aiming Systems Help

[Patrick Johnson]

One value I see in cte is an easy, repeatable sight picture leading to proper alignment to make the OB center pocket.

Absolutely right - in fact I'd say this is the central value of these systems. Now we're exploring how it "leads to proper alignment".

pj
chgo

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

You make a stupid uniformed statement, then refute it yourself like you have some hidden knowledge that system users don't. That's the best you can come up with to knock something you are uniformed on??? At least give it a decent try, don't just post something that does nothing but make you look like a tool.

Your name-calling and insults are totally uncalled for and against forum rules, by the way.

It's well known in science that simpler systems are preferred over more complex systems. So if a simpler aiming system like DAM can get the job done, then from a scientific perspective that should be the preferred choice over more complicated aiming systems.

 

[JB Cases]

But each reference combination is used for multiple shots and cut angles, so I'd say "directs the shooter to a narrowed range of possible shot lines from which to choose one based on experience."

pj
chgo

If by cut angle you are referring to the exact cut angle needed then yes one set of reference lines can work for a range of cut angles. This is the "magic" in the method.

But for any given shot the method leads to ONE shot line not multiple shots lines.

That the same reference line/s can work for multiple angles is what was discovered by Hal and others and is the basis for all this. It's not guessing and not feel.

 

[Neil]

............

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Maybe if you let go of your big ego and actually listened to someone besides yourself you would actually learn something.

I've learned quite a bit in this thread alone. Maybe you could too if you followed the above advice from a wise AzBer.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If by cut angle you are referring to the exact cut angle needed then yes one set of reference lines can work for a range of cut angles. This is the "magic" in the method.

The "magic" is what we're exploring. Obviously I think the actual explanation is more mundane.

But for any given shot the method leads to ONE shot line not multiple shots lines.
...
It's not guessing and not feel.

Call it "choosing from experience" if you like that better. My point is that those players who will never believe in "the magic" might also get something from the technique if they hear it described in a way they can understand.

pj
chgo

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Yeah, right, that's why amoebas rule the world and not humans. Your nonsense is against the rules of human behavior, maybe you should be banned from that. Go find a bridge to crawl back under.

I've noticed that when yeahsayers like you are unable to make their case using logic and reason, they feel compelled to resort to name-calling, ad hominem attacks and other intimidation tactics.

 

[champ2107]

First, I would like to say when mastered, I think all aiming systems/methods/etc become equal and the only thing that makes a champion is the will of that individual to succeed.


I honestly really do not pay that close attention to ctel "now" and i actually purposely move it sometimes and it no longer becomes “ctel” but something else, but i will not go there. I also do pay close attention to the aim line reference.

 

[JB Cases]

The "magic" is what we're exploring. Obviously I think the actual explanation is more mundane.


Call it "choosing from experience" if you like that better. My point is that those players who will never believe in "the magic" might also get something from the technique if they hear it described in a way they can understand.

pj
chgo

Ok. So is the thread done then?

Summary:

Aiming systems give the shooter a definite reference to start with which leads to an accurate shot line when the directions are followed properly. The steps to using an aiming system are, learn it and practice it until it becomes fluid.

Learn all the ones you want use the ones you like.

Finished?

 

[champ2107]

It would be cool if everyone, just talk this out with an opened mind and im sure Stan would join in with us as long as he and the system are treated with respect and not trolled and i am sure he is probably following this. I would like him to come into this thread.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Ok. So is the thread done then?

Summary:

Aiming systems give the shooter a definite reference to start with which leads to an accurate shot line when the directions are followed properly. The steps to using an aiming system are, learn it and practice it until it becomes fluid.

Learn all the ones you want use the ones you like.

Finished?

Are you finished? Don't let us keep you somewhere you don't want to be, John.

pj
chgo

 

[champ2107]

i think this has been the most decent cte discussion i have been in so far and only a couple trolls in it trying to mess it up.

 

[JB Cases]

Are you finished? Don't let us keep you somewhere you don't want to be, John.

pj
chgo

I was finished at post #1 because the premise is flawed. But if you're learning something then great.

I figured that by now you would have reached a conclusion but if not and you have more questions or comments then by all means continue.

If I see something worth commenting on I will. With your permission I can post video of you aiming and you can explain what the fidgeting was when you got down on the shot?

 

[Eric.]

Someone gets banned in five...four...three...


Eric >two...

 

[champ2107]

i am getting pm'd asking for cte/pro1 help all the time now and i can see its not clear even with its users still and we are all still learning.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I was finished at post #1.

OK. We'll try to keep the noise down.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

How one perceives a line in space can vary with the perspectives created by different head/eye positions. However, the degree of perception error will vary from person to person and with the amount the head is moved. When some people move their heads, they still might perceive the CTE line accurately (i.e., the perception of the line might not change with head position). For other people, the CTE line or the line of the shot might look totally different with different head positions.

For people who are interested, I have some good illustrations and demonstrations related to this topic, along with some supporting resources, here:

"vision center" resource page
sighting resource page​

Placing one's "vision center" accurately and consistency is a very important part of both aiming and sighting. One value I see in many "aiming systems" is: the pre-shot routine they encourage might help foster consistent alignment.

And this is why we have reference lines. One value I see in cte is an easy, repeatable sight picture leading to proper alignment to make the OB center pocket.

The "sight picture" depends on where your "vision center" is. How you perceive the CTE line and the OB reference lines can also depend on where your "vision center" is. But the real key is where you actually place your bridge hand on the table. Regardless of whether you pivot or not, or how much you pivot, you need to place the bridge hand in the right place so the cue (in the final position) will be aligned to send the CB to the necessary ghost-ball position to create the contact point and cut angle needed for a particular shot.

IMO, after all of the CTE steps, it is important that your "vision center" be aligned along the line of the shot so you can visualize if the bridge position and cue alignment you have created (after the aiming alignments, bridge-hand placement, and pivot) looks right for the "shot picture" you have in mind. I personally don't like moving my "vision center" at all during my pre-shot routine. I like keeping my "vision center" perfectly aligned with my desired shot line while actually aiming, while placing my bridge hand and aligning my cue, and while making sure my final "sight picture" looks good in my stance (in the "set" position) before committing to the final stroke. This doesn't seem to be the case with the CTE approach, where the vision center might be shifted before and after bridge-hand placement, and maybe during the pivot, to create different perspectives and perceptions.

Regards,
Dave

 

[champ2107]

when using manual cte/pro1, i use two kinds of pivots. i will use the pivot stan uses in his dvd, i guess i will call it a cue pivot and the visuals dont move. The second pivot i use is like a body pivot where my head/body shifts and my visuals move, but im still on the shot holding it and i use this when i want to bring more of a feel into that particular shot.

Now im just trying to think how i shoot as im sitting here, so i may be off a bit on something

 

[champ2107]

now when your close to an alignment change where an A right pivot is about to change into an A left pivot. You must learn to to be able to make the same shot with either pivot and the same goes for a B alignment. experience with the system will teach you this and there are occasions when you may purposely may want to shot a shot with the opposite pivot, i do this sometimes.

 

[cookie man]

This doesn't seem to be the case with the CTE approach, where the vision center might be shifted before and after bridge-hand placement, and maybe during the pivot, to create different perspectives and perceptions.

Regards,
Dave

Are you guessing. If you are your wrong and why would you even say something like that. CTE is a visual system done while standing up no different than any other technique in that regards. The difference is in how easy and repeatable it is to do. And its effectiveness in pocketing the ball.