How long does it take to see positive results?

[whitewolf]

Just got a new table about a week ago, now I am putting an average a 5 hours of practice a day on it. ( 8 hours stright the first 3 days) Its been a week now, Im not really seeing any inprovment, my stroke is a little smoother, and my shot is a little better. But for the amount I have practiced I should be seeing a little more positive results, dont you think? How long does it take before you know your game is improving?

Thanks in advance.

Step one - get a pro to give you a lesson.

I will bet that you are tightening your grip as you follow through - because after that many hours you should have improved if your stroke had been loose.

Until you get with a pro, examine your fundamentals. Are you lined up properly? Is your head staying still the entire shot? I think it is important to work on a rhythm every practice shot -1-2-3-pause pop.

At this stage in the game you should be working on nothing but your stroke, and fundamentals. Forget the drills, just fire balls into the pocket. If your grip is loose from the get-go, all the way back and all the way through - with no pressure - you will be forced to groove a straight stroke to make balls.

This should be your main focus, for if you can get your stroke smooth everything else will follow.

When you are firing balls into the pocket, you can use some drills like the one I like (Zen Pool). Shoot 15 balls with center ball. Then 15 balls with top outside english. Then 15 balls with side outside english. Then 15 balls with top inside english. Then do this drill again hitting real soft. Then real hard shots. Repeat repeat repeat.

One other drill I throw in at this stage is cut shots. Practice them a lot. Setup 9 balls along one side of the rail and fire them in - centerball, inside english, outside english. This will AUTOMATICALLY improve your eye.

LOL, even though I said not to do drills, these presented above are condusive to pure shooting.

Good luck, WW

 

[crawfish]

Compete, Compete

Thank you, thats great advice. I do have a few books about pool, and I am on this website. I just get bored of practicing sometimes, I like to compeate.

Compete and compete some more. There are plenty of "practicers" I see that always play eachother. They will never reach THAT level. Play different people, different games, and in different poolrooms. Expand as a player mentally. Watch good players play position and then practice what they have done. You can go to the US Open, and not pick up a cue, come back... and play a ball better. Try it. You get "pool-ized." Think about it. You have spent two or three days watching some of the best players in the world. It (position play, safeties, break, etc.) rubs off on you. If you are TRULY dedicated to be a player, you have to live dedicated and compete, compete and when you are tired of getting beat on, you will start picking up on how you are getting beat and correct it. Practice, practice what you see the better players do. Mannerisms, techniques, etc. Mike Coltrain's father used to rack the balls for Mike for over an hour some days and do nothing but practice the break. Anyone who remembers Mike at 17-19 years old or so understands what I just said. This whole thing is addictive and is a lifestyle. Take it in and enjoy what you do. Don't put so much pressure on yourself. It Will come. And... if you have any natural talent, it will come faster. Most of us, though, have been working for years. We have to love what we do, or we wouldn't live it.

 

[8-Ball Player]

Step one - get a pro to give you a lesson.

I will bet that you are tightening your grip as you follow through - because after that many hours you should have improved if your stroke had been loose.

Until you get with a pro, examine your fundamentals. Are you lined up properly? Is your head staying still the entire shot? I think it is important to work on a rhythm every practice shot -1-2-3-pause pop.

At this stage in the game you should be working on nothing but your stroke, and fundamentals. Forget the drills, just fire balls into the pocket. If your grip is loose from the get-go, all the way back and all the way through - with no pressure - you will be forced to groove a straight stroke to make balls.

This should be your main focus, for if you can get your stroke smooth everything else will follow.

When you are firing balls into the pocket, you can use some drills like the one I like (Zen Pool). Shoot 15 balls with center ball. Then 15 balls with top outside english. Then 15 balls with side outside english. Then 15 balls with top inside english. Then do this drill again hitting real soft. Then real hard shots. Repeat repeat repeat.

One other drill I throw in at this stage is cut shots. Practice them a lot. Setup 9 balls along one side of the rail and fire them in - centerball, inside english, outside english. This will AUTOMATICALLY improve your eye.

LOL, even though I said not to do drills, these presented above are condusive to pure shooting.

Good luck, WW

Yeah, I can already tell when my stroke is on or off, it is usually off. Any suggestions on the fundamentals of stroke?

 

[BazookaJoe]

Just got a new table about a week ago, now I am putting an average a 5 hours of practice a day on it. ( 8 hours stright the first 3 days) Its been a week now, Im not really seeing any inprovment, my stroke is a little smoother, and my shot is a little better. But for the amount I have practiced I should be seeing a little more positive results, dont you think? How long does it take before you know your game is improving?

Thanks in advance.

Ask Russ Chewning
He's betting a couple of years will improve his game.

 

[uwate]

I find it hard to play at home and get any kind of intensity in my concentration level. IMO practicing at home is good to work on specific shots, but learning to execute them under pressure is the area where most folks want improvement in. Handling pressure is a learned experience and you have to put yourself in situations (i.e. tournaments or gambling) where you body and mind can learn to accept pressure and thrive under it.

 

[8-Ball Player]

I find it hard to play at home and get any kind of intensity in my concentration level. IMO practicing at home is good to work on specific shots, but learning to execute them under pressure is the area where most folks want improvement in. Handling pressure is a learned experience and you have to put yourself in situations (i.e. tournaments or gambling) where you body and mind can learn to accept pressure and thrive under it.

Yeah, its just hard to find a place to compeate in around here.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Ask Russ Chewning
He's betting a couple of years will improve his game.

Hehe... So I say Bobby Pickle is not as good as Johnny Archer on a barbox, and you're gonna hunt for a reason to take potshots at me in every thread you can?

There might be a Paris Hilton thread in NPR you can derail. I'm sure you can find a way to drop my name in there, lol..

Russ

 

[Tom In Cincy]

How would you know if you reached your goal?

I asked the same question many years ago.. I mean a LONG time ago.
The answers were very similiar to what has been provided with the responses in this thread.

But, one answer I will always remember.

"If you don't know what you are measuring, how will you know when you have enough?"

You have to set some 'realistic goals' short term and long term.

Short term goals could be charted with the drills you've chosen. How long do you think it will take to master those drills? Weeks? months? Pick a target date, chart the number of tries and the number of success for the drills. Keep them honest and make sure you record your results. Make notes of what you try to do to change the success rate.

Video tape your practice drills. This is good feed back on your improvement. Refer to the earlier videos and the current ones to SEE how you've improved.

Keep these records for your refference. Change your drill patterns and start new records. You'll see improvement with small changes in your approach to the shots. Make sure you record the small changes (speed, english used [top, bottom,left,right, center or combinations], stoke quality and mental state.

Maintain a positive attitude when practicing. If it gets boring, then you've reached the limit for that session.

Most players can list at least 4 trouble shots they keep missing during competition. Chart those during practice sessions.

Nothing is more pleasent than facing one of your practice drill shots when in competition and having the confidence in drilling the shot for the win.

Long term goals can be Finishing in the Ca$h in those tough tournaments or winning 'most improved' in your league, or having a winning record in your league.

 

[8-Ball Player]

I asked the same question many years ago.. I mean a LONG time ago.
The answers were very similiar to what has been provided with the responses in this thread.

But, one answer I will always remember.

"If you don't know what you are measuring, how will you know when you have enough?"

You have to set some 'realistic goals' short term and long term.

Short term goals could be charted with the drills you've chosen. How long do you think it will take to master those drills? Weeks? months? Pick a target date, chart the number of tries and the number of success for the drills. Keep them honest and make sure you record your results. Make notes of what you try to do to change the success rate.

Video tape your practice drills. This is good feed back on your improvement. Refer to the earlier videos and the current ones to SEE how you've improved.

Keep these records for your refference. Change your drill patterns and start new records. You'll see improvement with small changes in your approach to the shots. Make sure you record the small changes (speed, english used [top, bottom,left,right, center or combinations], stoke quality and mental state.

Maintain a positive attitude when practicing. If it gets boring, then you've reached the limit for that session.

Most players can list at least 4 trouble shots they keep missing during competition. Chart those during practice sessions.

Nothing is more pleasent than facing one of your practice drill shots when in competition and having the confidence in drilling the shot for the win.

Long term goals can be Finishing in the Ca$h in those tough tournaments or winning 'most improved' in your league, or having a winning record in your league.

Thanks for replying, thats great advice. I need to videotape myself, thats a good idea. I havent made any goals yet so thats somthing I need to do right away, thanks a ton.

 

[renard]

I asked the same question many years ago.. I mean a LONG time ago.
The answers were very similiar to what has been provided with the responses in this thread.

But, one answer I will always remember.

"If you don't know what you are measuring, how will you know when you have enough?"

You have to set some 'realistic goals' short term and long term.

Short term goals could be charted with the drills you've chosen. How long do you think it will take to master those drills? Weeks? months? Pick a target date, chart the number of tries and the number of success for the drills. Keep them honest and make sure you record your results. Make notes of what you try to do to change the success rate.

Video tape your practice drills. This is good feed back on your improvement. Refer to the earlier videos and the current ones to SEE how you've improved.

Keep these records for your refference. Change your drill patterns and start new records. You'll see improvement with small changes in your approach to the shots. Make sure you record the small changes (speed, english used [top, bottom,left,right, center or combinations], stoke quality and mental state.

Maintain a positive attitude when practicing. If it gets boring, then you've reached the limit for that session.

Most players can list at least 4 trouble shots they keep missing during competition. Chart those during practice sessions.

Nothing is more pleasent than facing one of your practice drill shots when in competition and having the confidence in drilling the shot for the win.

Long term goals can be Finishing in the Ca$h in those tough tournaments or winning 'most improved' in your league, or having a winning record in your league.

This is great advice.

I might add, when I discovered the use of English for position it opened my obsession for the game. I used English on most every shot.

On a missed shot in a big game a comment from a very good player caught my attention. He said, "That was natural position, you didn't need English at all."

It made me think. When should I refrain from employing English on shots? How many shots have I missed because of English when it wasn't even required?

I revisited shooting only on the vertical line. There are many different shots to practice, and lets face it; it is the the pure basics of pocketing balls. This is just one facet of practice you can employ but, it brings more consistency to your game if you have the vertical line down cold when needed.

 

[JimS]

Video taping yourself is fine IF you know what to look for and IF you know what a proper stance and good stroke look like. Take at least ONE lesson and Scott will show you what you need to know and show you how to diagnose problems by watching tapes of your self. He'll also get you started on drills that will be the best possible for what you are doing right and doing wrong.

I started playing 6 years ago and wasted the first year by just repeating my mistakes. I found a pro 300 miles away, drove there and have been improving steadily ever since. I'd have never improved if I hadn't discovered the proper basics by taking that lesson. Since then I"ve taken several more to make sure I was continuing on the proper path and to learn new techniques and game tactics.

You just gotta have one lesson or at least tape yourself and find somebody to diagnose your stroke from the tape. Tape your stroke from directly in front of you, from in back of your stroke arm and from the side so your grip and arm angle can be seen.

 

[8-Ball Player]

Video taping yourself is fine IF you know what to look for and IF you know what a proper stance and good stroke look like. Take at least ONE lesson and Scott will show you what you need to know and show you how to diagnose problems by watching tapes of your self. He'll also get you started on drills that will be the best possible for what you are doing right and doing wrong.

I started playing 6 years ago and wasted the first year by just repeating my mistakes. I found a pro 300 miles away, drove there and have been improving steadily ever since. I'd have never improved if I hadn't discovered the proper basics by taking that lesson. Since then I"ve taken several more to make sure I was continuing on the proper path and to learn new techniques and game tactics.

You just gotta have one lesson or at least tape yourself and find somebody to diagnose your stroke from the tape. Tape your stroke from directly in front of you, from in back of your stroke arm and from the side so your grip and arm angle can be seen.

If I taped my stroke would you guys be willing to take a look at it and critique it? Ill have to learn how to post it. How long does a typical lesson last? At 50 bucks an hour it would be hard to pay for, for me anyway.

 

[Snapshot9]

Just as a barometer

I have always seen some improvements take hold and my game get better after 3 weeks usually. This started early when I learned to play, and it always has been the standard I use to evaluate by.

 

[whitewolf]

Yeah, I can already tell when my stroke is on or off, it is usually off. Any suggestions on the fundamentals of stroke?

There are a lot of stances, grips, standing upright, standing low down over the cue, etc. to choose from. Pick the combination that is comfortable to you.

But again, it is best to have a pro to check out your fundamentals.

Google the Stroke Trainer if you really have a crooked stroke.

Shoot up and down the table and try come back thru the exact spot that you started from. Eye dominance can actually have you line up incorrectly. Experiment putting the cue directly under your chin and then under your dominant eye and determine which one works best for you. If you are using a true pendulum stroke, your tip should finish on the felt, realizing of course that on some shots (power) you may finish above the felt.

Like some other posters have suggested, film yourself to check out want your stroke is doing. Coming back straight is a feel thing, IMHO, and you just have to work on it - number one priority!!!!! Following through straight can be done best with a very loose grip, IMHO. That way your stoke is 'flowing'. In golf, there is an old saying that 'you let the club do the work'. In billiards, this is also an appropriate phrase - 'let your stroke do the work'. Do not try to guide things as this will only produce failure.

One day I did everything I have been saying and I improved drastically after 14 hours of straight tournament play and hitting balls constantly while waiting to shoot next. This is the best thing that I have ever found that works.

 

[Cornerman]

Just got a new table about a week ago, now I am putting an average a 5 hours of practice a day on it. ( 8 hours stright the first 3 days) Its been a week now, Im not really seeing any inprovment, my stroke is a little smoother, and my shot is a little better. But for the amount I have practiced I should be seeing a little more positive results, dont you think? How long does it take before you know your game is improving?

Thanks in advance.

I just got through reading all the responses. Of all the responses, I have to agree with Jude the most.

Actually, I don't understand your question. You say after a week, your stroke is smoother and your shot(making) is a little better. And then you ask how long does it take to know your game is improving??? It seems to me that you've already improved, you've recognized it, and you're only in your first week!

Stay the course. Getting lessons, etc., is all good advice, but it's not like you won't improve without them. You're already improving by just hitting the balls (that would be Jay Helfert's post's advice).

Fred <~~~ would have sworn it was 43

 

[snyder1]

I've had a table for over 3 years and I still haven't improved. It's not an overnight thing. Give it some time.

I've had my table up for about a year ... the best practice regimen I've come up with is to throw 6 balls out on the table and before each shot, MUST call the next shot & in what pocket. It forces you to play position - no slop. At this point, I'm lucky if I run out 3 times out of 10. I'm curious what the more experienced players think of this practice method ?

I'm frustrated in the lack of improvement overall (been playing about 4 years) ... but my stroke is getting better, slowly but surely.

J

 

[BazookaJoe]

Hehe... So I say Bobby Pickle is not as good as Johnny Archer on a barbox, and you're gonna hunt for a reason to take potshots at me in every thread you can?

There might be a Paris Hilton thread in NPR you can derail. I'm sure you can find a way to drop my name in there, lol..

Russ

Nope
Just still ripping on you for the most arrogant statement I've ever read in one of these posts. Most people went as far to put it in their signatures.
I just don't like you Russ. You come across as both a know-it-all and a topper.

 

[CreeDo]

I'm fond of 4, 5, or 6 ball drills too but I think almost any practice that involves rolling the balls out and then shooting them will not be as effective as a more specific drill. It's good you're disciplined enough to force yourself to stick to a plan though.

If you're not getting out of a 6 ball drill then it's probably planning. Start with ball in hand and find the route that guarantees minimum cueball movement, especially back-to-back stop shots. Try to find a way to make each run as connect-the-dots as possible. If your run pattern has the cue ball travelling more than... I dunno, 3? 4? feet with draw or follow, you're probably picking a bad path.

Another drill, maybe more useful for 9 ball, is to set up a very common shot (maybe a side rail cut with the cue ball starting in the center of the table, for example) and try your damnedest to figure out the right blend of speed and spin to get the cueball on a path through the middle of the table. Try a bunch of different shots and every time try to make the cueball travel 1 or 2 rails through the center of the table. Paths through the center almost never lead to scratches and are some of the most useful and efficient ways to get position on any ball, anywhere. If you can send the cueball to or through the center of the table from any shot, you will be a scary player.

 

[8-Ball Player]

I'm fond of 4, 5, or 6 ball drills too but I think almost any practice that involves rolling the balls out and then shooting them will not be as effective as a more specific drill. It's good you're disciplined enough to force yourself to stick to a plan though.

If you're not getting out of a 6 ball drill then it's probably planning. Start with ball in hand and find the route that guarantees minimum cueball movement, especially back-to-back stop shots. Try to find a way to make each run as connect-the-dots as possible. If your run pattern has the cue ball travelling more than... I dunno, 3? 4? feet with draw or follow, you're probably picking a bad path.

Another drill, maybe more useful for 9 ball, is to set up a very common shot (maybe a side rail cut with the cue ball starting in the center of the table, for example) and try your damnedest to figure out the right blend of speed and spin to get the cueball on a path through the middle of the table. Try a bunch of different shots and every time try to make the cueball travel 1 or 2 rails through the center of the table. Paths through the center almost never lead to scratches and are some of the most useful and efficient ways to get position on any ball, anywhere. If you can send the cueball to or through the center of the table from any shot, you will be a scary player.

Haha, I wish I could do that. Thanks I will have to try that, I think the main thing I am getting out of this thread is I just need to keep practicing, Im basically getting impatient, and a little bored of practice, so I need to fix that obviously. THanks everyone. I tried to give as much rep as possible.

 

[Fatboy]

its different for everyone, i have a friend were the same age we started playing at the same time(coincidence we met at the pool room in 85), he had natural talant, i didnt, after a year i could beat him playing one pocket and needed the 8 playing 9ball, 3 years later i needed the 6 and had no shot playing one-pocket, 10 years later i have no idea what i would need from him it would have been alot. he played in tournments, i gambled, i believe to this day i can take more heat and play better under the heat, but he is a FAR better player than me-knows more shots, executes shots i simpally cant 1 out of 10 times etc. we both played full time. but the longer we played the wide the gap between us got. We were best friends in and out of the pool room and played in the same spots and had the same exposiure to the same things, he just had something I didnt, he helped much as possible but I just didnt have "It", he did, i'm not jealous at all i'm happy for him and awalys have supported him, hell I gave him a satin SW once for a personal favor, were still great friends-i moved.


there is no answere to the origional post in this thread, you cant train in what God left out, having proper instruction at 12 years old would have helped me, i played then too and devloped habits(i had zero help from anyone) i still have them once in a while today-had they been addressed when i was that young i would be a better player because they wouldnt pop up once in a while. I shoot guns very good-I started when I was 8 with proper instruction and its natural to me, pool is natural but not like guns, so age, natural talent, persistance, proper training, determination all count for alot. Some players can play at a professional level for $5/game and cant hod a cue for $1000, there are too many variables to predict the future of your game, keep Playing, get proper instruction, and set goals, but in the end water finds its own level.

Dont put pressure on your self or count days time is your friend, just keep playing, if you feel burned out-STOP for a while, I usually took sundays off, it was just a convenient day, when all I did was play pool and was a good player I would take off Friday and Saturday nights because the pool room was too busy, when I was a C/B player I liked those nights because I could find a game easily, but after a while everyone knew they couldnt win so I knocked off the busy nights because i couldnt geta game-pool to me wasnt social it was something i wanted to get better at and noise and crowds dont help my game,

things change as your game changes, there are no rules for any of this its a process-not a formula, practice drills are a formula and best done on a tuesay morning with no distractions. I know this is a long post but read it a few times and try and get the feel of the concept of it. its good information, in my opinion, if Scott Lee of Bob Jewett reads it I'd like their feed back on it or any other instructors, thanks guys. I put alot of effort in this post and wish I had this info in 85. but please i'd like opinions of it from instructors. thanks