How many of you folks think that Players "splitting" the Pot is bad for the Sport?

Spectator Venues

GreenFeltguy said:
Pool players wonder why pool spectators have become almost non existent, only completion I know where the final don't play for first place.
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Another reason is the venues don't set up for it. The only place I know where seating is a part of the place is Q Masters and then the seating is cramped and viewing not so great.

I would like to see one place where you could walk in and watch action matches, have a beer and order some food. That would be absolutely awesome.
 
Pro tournaments should be played until the end. If the finalists want to make a side-deal and split on their own time, that's their prerogative and no one should have a right to say otherwise. But it can't happen without the matches being played first, especially if fans are paying money to watch (live streams, admission, etc.).

That said, it's not the players' faults. It's the fault of management. The finals should be played at peak times when there's still alot of fan interest, not at 2am.

We all know there's no buzz for our sport. But that doesn't make it ok to just give up and not even try to hype it by allowing this activity to occur (2am finals, splitting, etc.).
 
In a perfect world it is bad for the sport but I understand why the players do it. This isn't pro golf or tennis where second place pays a ton of cash.
 
A few years back at the Allen Hopkins event that ran seperately from Super Billiards there was a field of 130 as I recall. They played down to 2 players. They split the pot and flipped a quarter to see who kept the trophy. If I ran the event I'd refuse to pay.

At Super Billiards 2 pros split the straight pool event. The event was put on by amateurs who just love the game and want to promote it. They donated money so these guys could have a prize to play for.

This kils the sport. If you are gonna whack the money, do it with class in the parking lot. Plat the set so spectators , sponsors , tournament directors and promoters get to see the outcome. To me this extends to all events, even local and regional amateur events.
 
Happy Medium

That's a happy medium that I can a few players reniging on.

cueenvy said:
A few years back at the Allen Hopkins event that ran seperately from Super Billiards there was a field of 130 as I recall. They played down to 2 players. They split the pot and flipped a quarter to see who kept the trophy. If I ran the event I'd refuse to pay.

At Super Billiards 2 pros split the straight pool event. The event was put on by amateurs who just love the game and want to promote it. They donated money so these guys could have a prize to play for.

This kils the sport. If you are gonna whack the money, do it with class in the parking lot. Plat the set so spectators , sponsors , tournament directors and promoters get to see the outcome. To me this extends to all events, even local and regional amateur events.
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MalibuMike said:
If I go to or pay to watch a Pro competition, any Pro competition! And it gets down to say the last 3 or four players and they decide to "Split the Pot" four ways, or 2 ways even, and not play it out, I feel ripped off! Come one we watch sporting event to see who is the number one player! Who is the Champion! I have seen to many tournaments in So. Cal anyways where the Pro's are splitting the Pot and not playing out the match to the end! Come on, if they did this in any other sport they would all be Boo'ed out of the ring, Golf Course, what have you. If these Pro's want to make more money they better help the sport out and not Puss-out and split it and say all 4 of us won it. Hey I'm not talking some Tuesday night tournament a your local bar or pool hall, I get that, its late nobody cares who wins. But in Professional Tournament play like what's been happening at Hard Times and other Tournaments in So. Cal. Some of us actually love the sport so much we would like to see who wins!!!!!!!!!
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It is petty but this is a petty sport with no money in it. With prize money usually being top ended and often first being twice as much as second it actually makes sense. If first is say $1000 and second is $500 I can see the players not wanting to play one set for $500. Take $750.00 apiece and just don't say anything. Like everybody doesn't know anyway.
 
Colonel said:
Play it out or no one gets paid. This practice is just one more thing that keeps this sport in the Stone Age
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Playing it out in no way prevents splitting. I saw Tommy Kennedy split with Parica and they played the final match. Tommy won 11 to 2, Parica didn't care at all about winning or not, he didn't even try.
 
Welcome to reality. Been goin' on since gamblers were gamblers. Until it becomes the PGA it ain't gonna change.
Also, playing matches at 2 or 3 am, easily causes this, or the coin drop.
 
336Robin said:
That's a happy medium that I can a few players reniging on.
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Well then they can just insult the game and persons supporting it by cutting it up.

Why not grow some and just play for it all? That's what I always ask my opponent in the finals. Might psych them out a little too. Never had a saver in my life. Split once cause a guy had to get up to work. Didn't he know he had to work when he entered?
 
cueenvy said:
Well then they can just insult the game and persons supporting it by cutting it up.

Why not grow some and just play for it all? That's what I always ask my opponent in the finals. Might psych them out a little too. Never had a saver in my life. Split once cause a guy had to get up to work. Didn't he know he had to work when he entered?
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Poolplaya1976 is back! Time to start another Jayson Shaw post soon :)
 
Here imo is another example of pool going the wrong way. Fans do NOT care to see the best player win. Fans DO care about an exciting match. Fans DO care about the conclusion of an event. How do you put all of these in the fan's favor:

Do whatever is necessary so that the final match is DONE at midnight.

You design the tournament for SHORT races, not long. Race to 5 or 6 or 7. Not race to 9 or 11 or 13. The shorter the race, the more excitement.

You never, ever, ever, use a triangle rack again. Any of the template racks are fine now. No one wants to watch a guy rack for more than 15 seconds.

Put the slow pokes on a clock.

Paul Sheffield gets a lot of heat on these boards, but he has modified the rack structure, and bracket structure of the game to make tournaments go smoothly and get done quickly. Hats off to him.
 
Why are pro tourneys even aloud to split a pot like that? If it is late or they dont want to play for any reason they should be required to either play or concede if they concede they have quit and the other player is deemed the winner. If they are professional players they should also have to answer to the sanctioning body as well. I may be totally off base here I don't know. It seems to me in other sports a professionals actions effect them both while doing the sport as well as when they are home. An example would be if a pro football player gets arrested they not only face the law penalties but also those from the football commission or team and sponsors they play for.
 
This thread was most likely in response the recent Mezz West Tour stop at Hard Times that split the pot among the final three.

In Oscar's defense, the owner of Hard Times did not want to pay the employees overtime until 6 AM for them to finish the tournament. Oscar mentioned this on the live stream when they decided to split the top three's money. Also, there was ONE very slow player that finished just outside the top three that had something to do with the lateness of the tourny. That player's pace held up the brackets needing a conclusion of his matches.

They need to start the events an hour earlier each day, especially when it is 10 ball with a large field.

My thoughts at the time they decided to split the winnings were why don't they just pay everyone as if the tournament was completed to its end, with the exception of the top three that would be given 3rd place money. The balance of the top three money would then be paid out when the final three finished the brackets the next time the three were together at an event (the final three are regulars on this Tour). Maybe the Friday night prior to the beginning of a future event). Would give them another live stream opportunity that fans could look forward to on that Friday night.

Another point that has not been brought up is the Mosconi Cup points that are awarded for the event. Wouldn't finishing it up a later date be the fairest outcome?

On a positive note...the Mezz West Tour does a great job, and we are lucky to have it here out west. Hear players in the pool halls in this area talking about it constantly. That's half the battle to making it a success.
 
WGDave said:
This thread was most likely in response the recent Mezz West Tour stop at Hard Times that split the pot among the final three.

In Oscar's defense, the owner of Hard Times did not want to pay the employees overtime until 6 AM for them to finish the tournament. Oscar mentioned this on the live stream when they decided to split the top three's money. Also, there was ONE very slow player that finished just outside the top three that had something to do with the lateness of the tourny. That player's pace held up the brackets needing a conclusion of his matches.

They need to start the events an hour earlier each day, especially when it is 10 ball with a large field.

My thoughts at the time they decided to split the winnings were why don't they just pay everyone as if the tournament was completed to its end, with the exception of the top three that would be given 3rd place money. The balance of the top three money would then be paid out when the final three finished the brackets the next time the three were together at an event (the final three are regulars on this Tour). Maybe the Friday night prior to the beginning of a future event). Would give them another live stream opportunity that fans could look forward to on that Friday night.

Another point that has not been brought up is the Mosconi Cup points that are awarded for the event. Wouldn't finishing it up a later date be the fairest outcome?

On a positive note...the Mezz West Tour does a great job, and we are lucky to have it here out west. Hear players in the pool halls in this area talking about it constantly. That's half the battle to making it a success.
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Sounds pretty reasonable, though i think the following morning may be best for a conclusion, if at all. The sponsors got the eyeballs and the host got the business. There doesn't seem to be much more they could've squeezed out of a one day event. Lately ive been cutting the following match by a game in an effort to catch up the slow players.

I stopped by HT Sacramento a couple weeks ago and liked their set up, especially the back room with bleacher seats and lower music volume.
 
WGDave said:
This thread was most likely in response the recent Mezz West Tour stop at Hard Times that split the pot among the final three.

In Oscar's defense, the owner of Hard Times did not want to pay the employees overtime until 6 AM for them to finish the tournament. Oscar mentioned this on the live stream when they decided to split the top three's money. Also, there was ONE very slow player that finished just outside the top three that had something to do with the lateness of the tourny. That player's pace held up the brackets needing a conclusion of his matches.

They need to start the events an hour earlier each day, especially when it is 10 ball with a large field.

My thoughts at the time they decided to split the winnings were why don't they just pay everyone as if the tournament was completed to its end, with the exception of the top three that would be given 3rd place money. The balance of the top three money would then be paid out when the final three finished the brackets the next time the three were together at an event (the final three are regulars on this Tour). Maybe the Friday night prior to the beginning of a future event). Would give them another live stream opportunity that fans could look forward to on that Friday night.

Another point that has not been brought up is the Mosconi Cup points that are awarded for the event. Wouldn't finishing it up a later date be the fairest outcome?

On a positive note...the Mezz West Tour does a great job, and we are lucky to have it here out west. Hear players in the pool halls in this area talking about it constantly. That's half the battle to making it a success.
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Maybe. But this is a perfect example. The tournament directors KNOW how many players there are, and how long the matches take. They should structure the event to make it done by midnight. IF that means doubling the entry to get half the players, or making the races to 5, or limiting the number of entries, or putting a shot clock on the snails, or whatever, so be it. It will make the event better overall if there is a conclusion. And short races make the matches more exciting.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I feel the same way.

BUT, I put the root cause at the tournament director, not the players. Most of the time the pot is split, its because it just turned 1:30 AM and there are still 3 guys left in the event. Forget that, no one wants to play OR watch that. The directors need to do whatever it takes to structure their events so its over at a reasonable hour.
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ditto on this
 
In a pro tournament I absolutely agree. I even agree with that for as big regional. In a weekly tournament, or a small regional not so much.

For me I'll make it interesting. If I'm asked to split (I don't ask for savers or to split) I'll come back with a race to two for first and cash. Example: 1st/2nd is $1000. I'll want a race to 2 for $100
 
WGDave said:
This thread was most likely in response the recent Mezz West Tour stop at Hard Times that split the pot among the final three.

In Oscar's defense, the owner of Hard Times did not want to pay the employees overtime until 6 AM for them to finish the tournament. Oscar mentioned this on the live stream when they decided to split the top three's money. Also, there was ONE very slow player that finished just outside the top three that had something to do with the lateness of the tourny. That player's pace held up the brackets needing a conclusion of his matches.

They need to start the events an hour earlier each day, especially when it is 10 ball with a large field.

My thoughts at the time they decided to split the winnings were why don't they just pay everyone as if the tournament was completed to its end, with the exception of the top three that would be given 3rd place money. The balance of the top three money would then be paid out when the final three finished the brackets the next time the three were together at an event (the final three are regulars on this Tour). Maybe the Friday night prior to the beginning of a future event). Would give them another live stream opportunity that fans could look forward to on that Friday night.

Another point that has not been brought up is the Mosconi Cup points that are awarded for the event. Wouldn't finishing it up a later date be the fairest outcome?

On a positive note...the Mezz West Tour does a great job, and we are lucky to have it here out west. Hear players in the pool halls in this area talking about it constantly. That's half the battle to making it a success.
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I mentioned the Mezz West earlier in this post...
10 ball, race to nine, on tight tables? 114 or so players? I think they just got overwhelmed, and slow play didn't help...(you know who you are)...

Some ideas...

Loser's side, race to SEVEN... that's right, loser's bracket, you go to seven.

If it goes super late, what's the problem with playing the semi finals and the final on Monday? Another night of pool fans in the house packed in to see who comes out on top, FOR REAL? Is it a scheduling deal?

Chopping three ways definitely put people off in the room. The example in an earlier post about Parica not even trying because they'd already "settled" speaks volumes.
 
One time I was watching a stream of an 8-ball tournament in Pennsylvania... went to bed, woke up at 10 am and it was STILL GOING.

Chopping pots is clearly not okay for high level tournaments with spectators and ticket sales. But if I were in the final few of a local event and the clock had rolled around to 6 am, I'd be crying uncle.
 
skip100 said:
One time I was watching a stream of an 8-ball tournament in Pennsylvania... went to bed, woke up at 10 am and it was STILL GOING.

Chopping pots is clearly not okay for high level tournaments with spectators and ticket sales. But if I were in the final few of a local event and the clock had rolled around to 6 am, I'd be crying uncle.
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Man, that's brutal... it gets to the point where it's an endurance contest, not pool.
If you're in a money game, that's different... it's you and your man, game on.

Tournaments? It's clearly a scheduling/TD/timing thing... yes, I know everyone's doing their best. Having said that, you've got 114 players? 10 ball? Magic Rack? Races to 9?.. tight tables?

Carry the semi's and final over to the next day, say 7pm... fans would come back to see who's TOP STICK... no chopping.
 
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