How much should lessons from a top pro cost?
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
olauzon said:
Not hardly. lol
Like Scott, I have had problems with payment - enough to where I'm done with it altogether.
I am officially retired from being an "instructor".
I am not seriously asking for $500 an hour for my classes, but Mike SIGEL charges quite a bit more for a class and GETS IT.
Zirroe said:
That seems really cheap. He should raise his prices...
Ok... I'll clarify
Jim,
Sometimes upfront payment is not always possible. I have always been very flexible in payment, and I have always kept my prices in a range where everybody could afford them. Sometimes you make exceptions - most of the time I travel somewhere to meet someone I have never met before - sometimes up to 300 miles away - the price was increased due to the travel costs, but it was still extremely affordable for what I offer.
Over the years, I have been stiffed several times. I have traveled great distances and had on the spot cancellations and no shows. When that happens I'm losing money. Gas & tolls to and from add up pretty quickly.
This past December I had one student not show up for a class they scheduled. She then called to apologize and reschedule for the following week. She canceled that class to reschedule for the week after that. I travel there again expecting to give a class only to sit in the pool hall twiddling my thumbs again.
Each time this lady called me, I had to clear my schedule in order to take the trek to her neck of the woods. The cancellations leave gaps in a schedule that I tried to keep filled. Not showing up, or at least giving the courtesy of a phone call - that's just rude. This is not as uncommon as you think, and like I said, it adds up.
The second factor in my decision to stop teaching was that most students expect to learn everything in one class. They take one class and you never hear from them again until they call to tell you they didn't get the results they expected from the first lesson.
My frustration grew and grew to the point where I needed to make a decision about whether I wanted to continue teaching. It ate up a lot of my energy. In the end, I decided that I would rather direct all of that energy into my own game instead of somebody else's. IMO, that is a better investment for me at this point in my life.
Recently, Mike Sigel told me that he charges what he does for one simple reason - he knows that he will only get the students that are serious about learning. Mike is right. When you are paying $750 an hour, you'll pay attention to every word he says. The trade off is that you won't get many students with that price tag.
av84fun said:
Jim,
Sometimes upfront payment is not always possible. I have always been very flexible in payment, and I have always kept my prices in a range where everybody could afford them. Sometimes you make exceptions - most of the time I travel somewhere to meet someone I have never met before - sometimes up to 300 miles away - the price was increased due to the travel costs, but it was still extremely affordable for what I offer.
Over the years, I have been stiffed several times. I have traveled great distances and had on the spot cancellations and no shows. When that happens I'm losing money. Gas & tolls to and from add up pretty quickly.
This past December I had one student not show up for a class they scheduled. She then called to apologize and reschedule for the following week. She canceled that class to reschedule for the week after that. I travel there again expecting to give a class only to sit in the pool hall twiddling my thumbs again.
Each time this lady called me, I had to clear my schedule in order to take the trek to her neck of the woods. The cancellations leave gaps in a schedule that I tried to keep filled. Not showing up, or at least giving the courtesy of a phone call - that's just rude. This is not as uncommon as you think, and like I said, it adds up.
The second factor in my decision to stop teaching was that most students expect to learn everything in one class. They take one class and you never hear from them again until they call to tell you they didn't get the results they expected from the first lesson.
My frustration grew and grew to the point where I needed to make a decision about whether I wanted to continue teaching. It ate up a lot of my energy. In the end, I decided that I would rather direct all of that energy into my own game instead of somebody else's. IMO, that is a better investment for me at this point in my life.
Recently, Mike Sigel told me that he charges what he does for one simple reason - he knows that he will only get the students that are serious about learning. Mike is right. When you are paying $750 an hour, you'll pay attention to every word he says. The trade off is that you won't get many students with that price tag.
DavidBlackjack said:
Are you going to put some effort into your books again?
Looking forward to seeing any new additions to your books.
Hope all is well,
Myron
alpine9430 said:
Yes Myron. I will have the Straight Pool book finished in a few weeks. After that, I might re-publish some older material and make it available again. There was also a straight pool dvd being planned, I'll have to check the status on that sometime this week.
As far as teaching via the forums or being available for private instruction - that's history, the exception being the straight pool forum.
I believe that this is the right move for me to make at this time and it is a positive step, not a negative one.
I got a few pointers from our room pro, price FREE.
Jerry Briesath...
Only formal lessons I ever got were from Jerry at his Pool School in Madison, WI. He is one of the people Tony Robles got lessons from. Jerry is not on the "cheap" end of the spectrum, but well worth the money spent. What I paid about ten years ago, was IIRC, $450 for three half days of instruction, classes limited to four students, max. He observed and evaluated how I was playing, videotaped at the start and again at the end of the lessons. It was really amazing how quick you can see the "flaws" come out on video. I think my game got at least two balls better after I practiced what I was shown, and ingrained it all into my brain and arm. Wish I could take the time to play enough to do what I finally learned from him. For those out west, think he teaches out that way when Wisconsin gets to be too cold to teach in Madison. Once my house gets closer to the way the wife and I want it to be, I hope to play more and would not hesitate in taking more lessons from Jerry again. The money spent will be well worth it.
Only formal lessons I ever got were from Jerry at his Pool School in Madison, WI. He is one of the people Tony Robles got lessons from. Jerry is not on the "cheap" end of the spectrum, but well worth the money spent. What I paid about ten years ago, was IIRC, $450 for three half days of instruction, classes limited to four students, max. He observed and evaluated how I was playing, videotaped at the start and again at the end of the lessons. It was really amazing how quick you can see the "flaws" come out on video. I think my game got at least two balls better after I practiced what I was shown, and ingrained it all into my brain and arm. Wish I could take the time to play enough to do what I finally learned from him. For those out west, think he teaches out that way when Wisconsin gets to be too cold to teach in Madison. Once my house gets closer to the way the wife and I want it to be, I hope to play more and would not hesitate in taking more lessons from Jerry again. The money spent will be well worth it.
Looking forward to the book and maybe the lunch should I ever get back into the Orlando area.Blackjack said:
Myron
bfdlad said:
I didnt read this thread but I'm sure it was said that because a person plays good dosent mean they are a good teacher.
Lessions should cost $50-$100 an hour. It dosent really take alot of hours of lessions to improve your game its what you do with the lessions.
I got a free lession 20 years ago from a great player and to this day I still use what he taught me, infact I have showed what he showed to me to a TOP TOP TOP player and he liked it, I have zero business telling who I did anything about playing, hell he could give me the 5-out and the break(maybe
) but I just passed the info to him and he liked it. So there it is there, information delivered in a certain way is all that matters not who the messanger is.It also depends on a players level of skill, some instructors are better suited for different level players, you cant learn how to play pool from anyone, you have to play period. Get some $$$ bet and then you'll start to learn fast or pick a different game to play like checkers.
Blackjack said:
My last post was about fundimentals not specific games and 14.1 lessions are 100% a must to play it, i cant run 7 balls playing it but can run out 9 ball all day on a good day. Daves book will be a great book i know that for sure, i havent read any of it, but I know him and for that reason alone I know it will be great.
Ray Martin is worth TALKING with for $50 an hour
In pool, good instructors are very rare, better going with a pro imo
in my experience, the average pro will charge alot if you seek him out and set up something in advance but catch that same pro in a pool room having a beer and you're golden, I've had guys instruct me real cheap but that was back when rooms were more abundant and players were more likely to hang out there alot more
if you happen to be in Manila you can get lessons real cheap also
In pool, good instructors are very rare, better going with a pro imo
in my experience, the average pro will charge alot if you seek him out and set up something in advance but catch that same pro in a pool room having a beer and you're golden, I've had guys instruct me real cheap but that was back when rooms were more abundant and players were more likely to hang out there alot more
if you happen to be in Manila you can get lessons real cheap also
Ray,
I really liked your book "The 99 critical shots in pool". I think $50 with Ray Martin would be well worth it.
With all the positive feedback about some of the instructors that post on here, and the money back guarantee from some, it is hard to go wrong with any of them.
I really liked your book "The 99 critical shots in pool". I think $50 with Ray Martin would be well worth it.
With all the positive feedback about some of the instructors that post on here, and the money back guarantee from some, it is hard to go wrong with any of them.
I think it depends where you live and which pro's are around. You may want to try the house pro at the room you play out of.
In San Diego, the house pro at the room I play out of used to charge $25 an hour (and had a few regular students), but as of lately he's been helping whomever asks for free. I asked him today why he's been doing this (way out of character) and he said it's because of his love for the game and hope to inspire more people to play.
2 nights ago 2 guys were watching Dan Wallace shoot and commented to Sam (house pro and manager) how they wanted to learn how to play. Sam came over to their table and spent 2 or 3 hours with them showing them the basics. Whatever he did worked because the next night the guys came back for more .
In San Diego, the house pro at the room I play out of used to charge $25 an hour (and had a few regular students), but as of lately he's been helping whomever asks for free. I asked him today why he's been doing this (way out of character) and he said it's because of his love for the game and hope to inspire more people to play.
2 nights ago 2 guys were watching Dan Wallace shoot and commented to Sam (house pro and manager) how they wanted to learn how to play. Sam came over to their table and spent 2 or 3 hours with them showing them the basics. Whatever he did worked because the next night the guys came back for more
.
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I am currently a student of Tony Robles, and he is a wonderful teacher. I was taking lessons with someone else (don't want to mention whom) who had also given Tony (or tried) some lessons, and enforced his will and was not willing to budge or work what would be best for you. Plus! he expected for you to see him twice every week or he would have doubled the fee. Anyway, Tony Robles has changed what little game I have. His drills are tremendous. He charges $60 and hour and works from either Amsterdam Billards or (if Amsterdam is busy) Soho billards. By the way, he told me Ray Martin was his first teacher. Mr. Martin told him that when it comes to seeing patterns, you will eventually see!!! Very wise!!
Ray, you should tell the people that i cut my prices in half for you so that you could get double the amount of time for the same price...Well now you are willing to pay double the amount for one hour...I guess the cheaper you are the less people appericiate it, stupid me...And I just want to make it clear that this has nothing to do with Tony, just the fact that you don`t get it...do me a favor tell everybody on this site who that coach was...Ron Vitello...I`am not ashamed of what I teach or what I charge...I even give it away...And how dare you tell this forum that I force my will on anybody...The problem is that you just didn`t get it...Some people will go farther than others in any given sport...you always said you wanted to learn everything i know about pool...Do you think your going to learn everything that Tony knows,never...one day you`ll wish you never wrote this letter to the people on AZbilliards...Did you tell everybody how I saved you $700.00 on a cue stick that was not worth more than $75.00...shame on you raymond, notice i spelled your name with a small (r) because your a small minded person...
RON VITELLO
RON VITELLO
I thought so, I recognized the pattern
Great post, rep given...
Like Allison says, "It all boils down to performance..."
Boils anyone?
renard said:I got lessons from a top pro and he turned me away after I opened my case and got my stick out. He laid down the guidelines and I decided to follow them. We reconvened the next day with the new pool stick he had me buy. It cost me an additional $149.00 to purchase the stick.
He instructed for six hours and it cost me an additional $28 for the quarters on the table. It was a big disappointment and I will never take lessons from Travis Trotter again !!!
What do I do with this Cuetec cue?
Could you imagine?
Great post, rep given...
Like Allison says, "It all boils down to performance..."
Boils anyone?