How Rich is Kevin Trudeau?

[wayne]

It's funny you should bring this up Colin, because this is exactly what I find most reprehensible about some of KT's actions. His misleading desperate people in order to get their money. He peddles fake cures.

As I stated earlier, my father died from lung cancer. I was with him as the disease progressed and he grew more frail, eventually dying (with my sister and me at his side). My father did not know who KT was. But, undoubtedly, many desperate people have looked to KT's Natural Cures in their darkest moments. Hoping for a cure for a disease they or a loved one had. What did they find? A scam. I'm sorry. I wish you guys all the success in the world, but someone who would do that is IMHO a piece of SH&T!

As far as what KT says now- You want to know who a person is? You don't listen to what they say, you look at what they do. What a person does defines who they are.

Peace.

My guess is over 99% of the people who buy books on Natural Cures are not desperate people but rather people who believe in curing things naturally. Anyone with half a brain would know that if they have an advanced disease that is killing them the likelihood of finding a magic cure in a book is extremely remote. If someone selling a natural cure book was dependent on scamming deperate people they wouldn't make multi-millions of dollars but would probably make a few hundred.

Which cures in the book are fake?

Wayne

 

[sjm]

My guess is over 99% of the people who buy books on Natural Cures are not desperate people but rather people who believe in curing things naturally.

Sort of. I'd agree with you in full if you'd said "people who are willing to consider the possibility that their ailment may be curable naturally."

The problem here is that attemtping to convince somebody with a minor ailment that no medical assistance is needed can result in the unnecessary escalation of minor ailments into serious medical conditions. Medical attention is expensive, so if you want to tell people what they want to hear, tell them they can be healed without the aid of a medical professional. It's a principle faith healers and televangelists have always understood, and off which more than a few of them have made a tidy profit.

Hence, if some of the cures offered are invalid, and in your post, you've suggested that any reasonable reader of "Natural Cures" would understand this to be the case, damage is done.

Hence, there is a grave moral question at the heart of the matter, specifically:

ARE THOSE WHO, BY PROVIDING INACCURATE INFORMATION, PROMPT OTHERS INTO ACTIONS THAT ARE NOT IN THEIR OWN BEST INTERESTS, ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE ACTIONS?

I sure think so, and our courts have judged the same on many occasions. If your supposition that readers should know better than to believe in some of the cures presented is true, you are assuming misrepresentation, and if you're right, then, in my view, the spreaders of these fictions have some accountability here.

For me, I'll reserve judgment on whether false cures are in this book, as I simply don't know.

 

[JLW]

My guess is over 99% of the people who buy books on Natural Cures are not desperate people but rather people who believe in curing things naturally. Anyone with half a brain would know that if they have an advanced disease that is killing them the likelihood of finding a magic cure in a book is extremely remote. If someone selling a natural cure book was dependent on scamming deperate people they wouldn't make multi-millions of dollars but would probably make a few hundred.

Which cures in the book are fake?

Wayne

Wayne-
I've never said that I think every person who buys KT's book is terminally ill and desperate. But surely he knows that some are and that some people are using his useless cures instead of seeking proper medical attention in a timely manner. He has them taking snake oil when they should be seeing a medical professional who might actually be able to help them survive their disease. What you also have to understand is that the book does not even explain all of the cures it promises. If you really want the cures, you have to join his website for $500. Although I believe that's a lifetime membership, so I guess it's a good deal after all.

As far as which cures are fake. Are you kidding? Take your pick. Here are a few of KT's musings for everyone's amusement:

The Sun does not cause skin cancer, sunscreen does.
Showers are dangerous because fluoride is a deadly chemical.
Intravenous use of Hydrogen Peroxide cures AIDS.
You can cure arthritis by removing all dental metal from your mouth.
It's good for your body for you to get 15 colonics in 30 days.

Do I really need to go on? Do yourself a favor and do some Google searches regarding this guy. I'll say it again. I wish the best for everyone playing on the IPT and I hope it changes the face of pool. But I can't support or trust Kevin Trudeau. Sorry.

 

[2wld4u]

KT is succesful, why? because he is bold, whatever he believes in, he takes it all the way, for this reason I admire what he has done, Thats more than alot of us can say, and everyone has made mistakes.


The reality of this situation is Like it or not that KT has taken advantage of Liberal rights, dont blame KT, blame the liberal mentality that makes his actions possible... and you cant tell me if you had a chance to make millions off a book, no matter the content, you wouldnt do it.. The truth is you may speculate but if you were in his shoes you would most likely be as wealthy as he is... For me, its not about what he has done, but what he is doing now. I believe he is making an effort to better our sport, ofcourse he is going to try and make money, he would be foolish not to.

He is in a world that if he gets started in the right direction the whole billiard comunity will pressure him to stay on track. this is big business, he is playing with the big boys now, he will need to watch his step. he is a small fry in this community and im sure by now he realizes he cant through much weight around and this I believe is the reason for the IPT in the first place...

Im all for the IPT, although I believe the qualifier tourney is BS.. Judge not lest you be judged.. trying to weed out undesireables with a stiff entry fee is a modest attemp at nothing, he is only hurting honest players. He doesnt want new talent, he wants whats already established, as would any money grubbing son of a gun... Thats cool, but bad for the IPT image... If he really wanted to make amends with the public he would encourage new talent, this would bring new excitement and sales everywhere would sky rocket...

I think he has started making bad decisions.. the only question will be WILL THE IPT survive because of it? and if it does how long before big daddy BCA takes control?


2wld4u

 

[Gabber]

rackmsuckr said,

I don't know the background of every person who starts a tour, nor do I necessarily care.

You are kidding me, right ?
Since day 1 you have been glorifying KT and the IPT. Now you [ and Colin] have become apologists for him, trying to talk everything he has done bad, good And now you are making excuses for his obvious bad buisness practices.
Its not going to wash.
The bottom line is that KT made his money conning people. Mega Memory, lose 100 kilo's in 5 minutes, grow your own hair [?] and now its 'we are all going to be rich'. His MO has never changed, it has become more refined tho.

That being said, I [ and all the other critics] would gladly shut-up about his past [ its all been said] if you guys would stop with the 'Kevin is such a wonderful person' posts.
What you dont seem to realise is that that KT works to a formula. This idea that anyone how has doubts about the IPT set-up is negative, is a common technique in MLM. [ check out AMWAY].

Gabber...............BTW.......Mr Wilson should have kicked that idiot wonderlan off the board rather than lock that thread. I dont see what John did wrong?

 

[Colin Colenso]

It's funny you should bring this up Colin, because this is exactly what I find most reprehensible about some of KT's actions. His misleading desperate people in order to get their money. He peddles fake cures.

As I stated earlier, my father died from lung cancer. I was with him as the disease progressed and he grew more frail, eventually dying (with my sister and me at his side). My father did not know who KT was. But, undoubtedly, many desperate people have looked to KT's Natural Cures in their darkest moments. Hoping for a cure for a disease they or a loved one had. What did they find? A scam. I'm sorry. I wish you guys all the success in the world, but someone who would do that is IMHO a piece of SH&T!

As far as what KT says now- You want to know who a person is? You don't listen to what they say, you look at what they do. What a person does defines who they are.

Peace.

Hi JLW,
If one is to assume that what KT sells provides fake cures and he is aware of this, then your point would be valid.

I've met a lot of people in the natural and alternative medicine circles and I think a lot of their ideas, especially with hindsight and further reading, were useless, insignificant and sometimes even harmful. But I never met one who didn't believe in what they were preaching or selling wasn't the right thing to do, something of benefit to other people.

Compare this to the accepted professional who sell Coke, fast food etc. who know well that what they sell and promote does more harm than good.

In my opinion the entire pharmaceutical industry is guilty of promoting more bad medicines and being far less altruistic in their actions than those promoting natural cures.

It is also my opinion that a lot of the information in KT's book is very useful to people. In terms not only of healing methods but in raising the awareness of the corrupt nature of the pharmaceutical industry.

His mega-memory products, though over hyped (effective selling method), provided people with tools to increase their memory. Real and useful tools if practiced. I'm sure those who weren't to lazy to adapt the lessons benefited greatly.

I disagree with you on the nature of what he sells, and hence I have to disagree with the conclusion you make on how 'what he does' defines his character.

btw: It does not require a conspiracy theory to believe that the pharmaceutical industry is corrupt. It is simple economics. They enjoy a government protected monopoly, so they don't have to worry about competition over effectiveness of treatments. They have an economic incentive to produce medicines that require long term use (treating the symptom) and benefit greatly from a generally sick society.

Drugs that achieve these are highly profitable and so more investment goes into these. Drugs that would cure on one use, or cannot be patented are abandoned and criticised. Many good examples abound, but don't expect to see it on the 6 o'clock news.

 

[JLW]

Hi JLW,
I disagree with you on the nature of what he sells, and hence I have to disagree with the conclusion you make on how 'what he does' defines his character.

Colin- It's always nice to talk with someone who can converse in a rational, calm way. So I appreciate the dialogue. I think you've shown yourself to be a great asset to this forum. In terms of KT, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not looking to rain on everyone's parade here regarding the IPT. As I've said repeatedly, I really want it to work. I've only asked people take an honest look at who this man is. It's his past, so I don't think any of the AZBers here should be vilified for bringing it up and discussing it. And I don't think it makes any of us negative about pool's future. It makes us informed. It's all out there as a matter of public record.

IMO, if you are informed about the things he has done in the past and feel that it's ok, then more power to you. Really. I'm not being sarcastic here. I don't think information and debate is ever a bad thing. Just as we should always question authority, I think we (as lovers of the game of pool) have a responsibility to ask questions now regarding KT. A friend of mine used to have a great sign on his door. It said "Everone has a right to their own opinion, but no one has a right to be wrong about the facts." I think that is appropriate here.

Regarding the above quote, I will also have to disagree. You can believe whatever you want and say whatever you want, but (IMHO) it's what you actually DO that reveals who you are. Just my .02 worth.

Have a great Holiday Season.

 

[wayne]

Wayne-
As far as which cures are fake. Are you kidding? Take your pick. Here are a few of KT's musings for everyone's amusement:

The Sun does not cause skin cancer, sunscreen does.
Showers are dangerous because fluoride is a deadly chemical.
Intravenous use of Hydrogen Peroxide cures AIDS.
You can cure arthritis by removing all dental metal from your mouth.
It's good for your body for you to get 15 colonics in 30 days.

Do I really need to go on?

Well, I don't know what the context of these are or if he explains them more fully but I do know for a fact that metal in your mouth is not good for you and has negative effects and I would guess that most people would benefit greatly from getting the colonics.

Wayne

 

[wayne]

Sort of. I'd agree with you in full if you'd said "people who are willing to consider the possibility that their ailment may be curable naturally."

The problem here is that attemtping to convince somebody with a minor ailment that no medical assistance is needed can result in the unnecessary escalation of minor ailments into serious medical conditions. Medical attention is expensive, so if you want to tell people what they want to hear, tell them they can be healed without the aid of a medical professional. It's a principle faith healers and televangelists have always understood, and off which more than a few of them have made a tidy profit.

Hence, if some of the cures offered are invalid, and in your post, you've suggested that any reasonable reader of "Natural Cures" would understand this to be the case, damage is done.

Hence, there is a grave moral question at the heart of the matter, specifically:

ARE THOSE WHO, BY PROVIDING INACCURATE INFORMATION, PROMPT OTHERS INTO ACTIONS THAT ARE NOT IN THEIR OWN BEST INTERESTS, ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE ACTIONS?

I sure think so, and our courts have judged the same on many occasions. If your supposition that readers should know better than to believe in some of the cures presented is true, you are assuming misrepresentation, and if you're right, then, in my view, the spreaders of these fictions have some accountability here.

For me, I'll reserve judgment on whether false cures are in this book, as I simply don't know.

Your writing about what I was "suggesting" or my "suppositon" are not valid, why not just respond to what I actually said instead of coming up with things, to make yourself seem right and to make others wrong, that had nothing to do with what I said.

BASED ON YOUR WRITINGS "YOU" ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR INACCURATE INFORMATION.

Wayne

 

[sjm]

Your writing about what I was "suggesting" or my "suppositon" are not valid, why not just respond to what I actually said instead of coming up with things, to make yourself seem right and to make others wrong, that had nothing to do with what I said.

BASED ON YOUR WRITINGS "YOU" ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR INACCURATE INFORMATION.

Wayne

Sorry, Wayne. Guess you're right. I veered off in a different direction from that of your post. Yes, I am accountable for what I wrote. I obviously misinterpeted you. I will try to do a little better next time. Lesson learned.

 

[JLW]

I would guess that most people would benefit greatly from getting the colonics.

Wayne

15 in 30 days? Really? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're not an MD.

 

[Cuedog]

Where's the Beef?

I haven't read it all, but I've read a lot about this and other subjects about KT and what I am wondering is, how is the player hurt or about to be hurt by KT starting this tour?

How does the player lose out in all of this?

Are you (anyone that is anti-KT) inferring that by providing a means for the players to make larger sums of money than ever before, KT is setting them up and using them for some major diabolical scam?

Are the players just pawns in this scam?

What is your point other than to smear the guy?

What do you care?

If you are saying that pool will eventually become guilty by association, and will be irrevocably damaged by this, now I get it! I don't necessarily agree. But, I do get where you are coming from.

Give us a bottom line as to why the public execution. Hold on while I get my popcorn.

 

[Colin Colenso]

15 in 30 days? Really? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're not an MD.

I got into colonic irrigations for a while after reading a book by Norman Walker. He had regular colonics, thousands in total and lived to 107, remaining very lucid even after passing 100 years of age.

I no longer believe all the stuff Norman Walker wrote, but he made a case for colonics that should hardly be scoffed at.

 

[sjm]

I got into colonic irrigations for a while after reading a book by Norman Walker. He had regular colonics, thousands in total and lived to 107, remaining very lucid even after passing 100 years of age.

I no longer believe all the stuff Norman Walker wrote, but he made a case for colonics that should hardly be scoffed at.

Tried to PM you, but your box is full.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin- It's always nice to talk with someone who can converse in a rational, calm way. So I appreciate the dialogue. I think you've shown yourself to be a great asset to this forum. In terms of KT, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not looking to rain on everyone's parade here regarding the IPT. As I've said repeatedly, I really want it to work. I've only asked people take an honest look at who this man is. It's his past, so I don't think any of the AZBers here should be vilified for bringing it up and discussing it. And I don't think it makes any of us negative about pool's future. It makes us informed. It's all out there as a matter of public record.

IMO, if you are informed about the things he has done in the past and feel that it's ok, then more power to you. Really. I'm not being sarcastic here. I don't think information and debate is ever a bad thing. Just as we should always question authority, I think we (as lovers of the game of pool) have a responsibility to ask questions now regarding KT. A friend of mine used to have a great sign on his door. It said "Everone has a right to their own opinion, but no one has a right to be wrong about the facts." I think that is appropriate here.

Regarding the above quote, I will also have to disagree. You can believe whatever you want and say whatever you want, but (IMHO) it's what you actually DO that reveals who you are. Just my .02 worth.

Have a great Holiday Season.

Cheers JLW,
Best wishes to you and your's also for the Holyday Season.

Mabe one day we can sit down and chat about some of the topics in more detail and I can convince you on some points

I know you're not anti-ITP success. A also know I can't read the mind of KT, but base my points purely on what I see from what he has done.

I'm trying not to be prejudiced about it. Some here know I've long been an economics enthusiast of libertarian bent. So I'm naturally disposed to be supportive of those who make money by non-coercive (no force or association with the state) means.

KT, as an enemy of the state supported FDA, AMA and FTC jumps straight into my good books, regardless of the IPT.

I'll stop before I segue into another sermon

I just ask you to consider the thousands of naturapaths out there who wholeheartedly believe their advice is in other's benefit. And I'm sure some of their advice does harm, as does the advice of some altruistic, benevolent GP's.

Just because KT is heavier on the hype, adapting to proven selling methods, does not, in my opinion, show any intent to harm.

Ok...just a small sermon.

Cheers to ya, and hope to meet and chat someday

Colin >~likes using 3 letter abbreviations.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Tried to PM you, but your box is full.

Fixed that sjm. That box seems to fill up too quickly

 

[macguy]

I got into colonic irrigations for a while after reading a book by Norman Walker. He had regular colonics, thousands in total and lived to 107, remaining very lucid even after passing 100 years of age.

I no longer believe all the stuff Norman Walker wrote, but he made a case for colonics that should hardly be scoffed at.

The truth is none of this stuff should be done without consulting a doctor. Now, everyone will start yelling all doctors are liars but that is just not true. Seeking out the right doctor and a good doctor is the responsibility of the patient. (and that can include a doctor who believes in the natural way and isn't just a pill pusher) You have to go in there informed to some degree and you don't need to take what the doctor says as being written in stone but you do need his input so you can make up your own mind or get several opinions. Symptoms often mask themselves as other things you can't just begin diagnosing and treating yourself it would not be very wise.

 

[Colin Colenso]

The truth is none of this stuff should be done without consulting a doctor. Now, everyone will start yelling all doctors are liars but that is just not true. Seeking out the right doctor and a good doctor is the responsibility of the patient. (and that can include a doctor who believes in the natural way and isn't just a pill pusher) You have to go in there informed to some degree and you don't need to take what the doctor says as being written in stone but you do need his input so you can make up your own mind or get several opinions. Symptoms often mask themselves as other things you can't just begin diagnosing and treating yourself it would not be very wise.

I agree there are some good doctors out there. They are just hard to find. This is because federal regulations and the AMA put firm restrictions on doctors promoting their abilities. They's prefer us to believe that all GP's are equally perfect.

In China hospitals and medical clinics are now advertising on TV to compete against other facilities. Basic services here are just about as good and a small fraction of the cost in the US thanks to a freeing up of market policies.

If the US had a free market approach to medicine, you'd see the GP's and various clinics and hospitals doing the kind of hyped up advertising we see in every other industry. Instead they are behind a blood curtain. Their perception of authority and expertise created by their silent and largely unquestioned veil of superiority given to them by state protection.

e.g. I could read 10,000 books on general and alternatice medicine, run a practice somewhere in wholistic medicine, had success rates in helping patients that blows the average G.P. out of the water and be called a quack with no medical training.

I've known several trained doctors, and I can spin their heads with information from anatomy to endocrinology to nutirtion. I've read hundreds of times more than they have on various aspects of nutrition. Yet their opinions on any subject related to medicine or health would carry much more weight that mine in the mainstream media due to their government approved training.

The medical system is perverse. Almost as perverse as the Chinese food distribution system was 25 years ago. Those who think the government should stand behind something as important as medicine should look at the dozens of examples where governments took control of food distribution and starved their citizens.

Right now in the US, and most countries I should add, the government supported medical system is starving the people of health, and poisoning them to slow miserable deaths.

That some good is done amongst the bad, is no defense of the system. That KT has done a great deal to make people question the status quo medical industry is a great thing in my opinion.

 

[JLW]

I haven't read it all, but I've read a lot about this and other subjects about KT and what I am wondering is, how is the player hurt or about to be hurt by KT starting this tour?

How does the player lose out in all of this?

Are you (anyone that is anti-KT) inferring that by providing a means for the players to make larger sums of money than ever before, KT is setting them up and using them for some major diabolical scam?

Are the players just pawns in this scam?

What is your point other than to smear the guy?

What do you care?

If you are saying that pool will eventually become guilty by association, and will be irrevocably damaged by this, now I get it! I don't necessarily agree. But, I do get where you are coming from.

Give us a bottom line as to why the public execution. Hold on while I get my popcorn.

Cuedog- No, I'm not in any way suggesting that Kevin Trudeau is setting up pool players as pawns in some scam. I don't think that's happening, and I don't believe that the pros need me to presume to tell them what's best for them. As a matter of fact, I'm all for them getting as rich as they can through the IPT. The only reason I posted in this thread is because I saw posts I felt excused or diminished his past misdeeds. He's done prison time for being a dishonest businessman. He's had repeated run-ins with the Federal government, but he's rich and he's backing a pool tour, so that makes everything he did in his past off limits for discussion or critique. Right? I don't think so. The fact is, a lot of people don't really know anything about KT. And I don't see it as a public execution or smear campaign to educate them about the guy. I'm not making this stuff up. It's all stuff HE did and said. And yes, I do think to some extent it's bad for professional pool's image to be associated with Kevin Trudeau. Will it be a big deal in the marketing of the IPT? No, I don't think so.

As far as why I care, I care because I think he's shown himself to be a sleazy snake oil salesman who takes advantage of unsuspecting consumers (many of whom are emotionally vulnerable due to severe medical problems). I've never met the guy. Maybe I would change my mind if I did. I repect Colin's opinion, and he seems to think highly of KT.

For me the bottom line is- Support the IPT. Support the players. Support pool. BUT...let's not ignore everything this guy has done in his life simply because he's waving money in our faces.

 

[macguy]

I agree there are some good doctors out there. They are just hard to find. This is because federal regulations and the AMA put firm restrictions on doctors promoting their abilities. They's prefer us to believe that all GP's are equally perfect.

In China hospitals and medical clinics are now advertising on TV to compete against other facilities. Basic services here are just about as good and a small fraction of the cost in the US thanks to a freeing up of market policies.

If the US had a free market approach to medicine, you'd see the GP's and various clinics and hospitals doing the kind of hyped up advertising we see in every other industry. Instead they are behind a blood curtain. Their perception of authority and expertise created by their silent and largely unquestioned veil of superiority given to them by state protection.

e.g. I could read 10,000 books on general and alternatice medicine, run a practice somewhere in wholistic medicine, had success rates in helping patients that blows the average G.P. out of the water and be called a quack with no medical training.

I've known several trained doctors, and I can spin their heads with information from anatomy to endocrinology to nutirtion. I've read hundreds of times more than they have on various aspects of nutrition. Yet their opinions on any subject related to medicine or health would carry much more weight that mine in the mainstream media due to their government approved training.

The medical system is perverse. Almost as perverse as the Chinese food distribution system was 25 years ago. Those who think the government should stand behind something as important as medicine should look at the dozens of examples where governments took control of food distribution and starved their citizens.

Right now in the US, and most countries I should add, the government supported medical system is starving the people of health, and poisoning them to slow miserable deaths.

That some good is done amongst the bad, is no defense of the system. That KT has done a great deal to make people question the status quo medical industry is a great thing in my opinion.

Then why doesn't he re-title the book as an exposé of the medical industry? You don't need to answer because we both know that "Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You To Know About " is a more provocative title although completely deceiving as is almost everything he says in his informercials. Have you seen them by the way? If you haven't you might fing this interesting
http://www.infomercialwatch.org/tran/trudeau.shtml
I am afraid his book puts him in the same category as those he pretends to expose. He is trying to sell what would normally be a meaningless conspiracy theory book no one would even look at by lying as to it's content. I would be curious how many books are actually sold from store shelves where the buyer can skim the book before buying. You could only have sales like he has selling a pig in a polk the way he does on TV. The book itself would not sell any copies on it's own merit or by word of mouth.