How strong is the 9 ball ghost a player?

K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Curious...

What skill level would people rate the 9 ball ghost? In other words, what level player is expected to beat the ghost 50% of the time in a race to 9?

First off, to me the ghost works like this:

--regular rack, no special pattern
--break the balls, take ball in hand no matter what (scratch is ok)
--if you run out or make an early 9 ball, you win, otherwise you lose.
--race to 9
--9 foot table with average pockets

This is the easiest version of the ghost, but I think its how most play?

Anyway, so who should beat the ghost? I feel like a B player *may* beat the ghost on occassion, but very very rarely. Usually I think the B player will get out of line at least once per rack on average, and so won't run out consistently.

I must say even some of the A players might have some trouble. I would expect an "open" player to win almost every time, and an A player wins maybe 50% of the time. I would say someone who is the *favorite* against the ghost (wins more than 50%) is at least a solid A player.

This sound right to people? Thoughts?

KMRUNOUT
 
It is all about what does "A-player" or "open player" mean.i dont remember losing to 9b ghost in very long time,i usually score in 9:2-9:4 range but i dont feel like "open player" yet,it takes lot more than being good offensive player to be in "open player" class in my eyes. Just my opinion ;)

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on a 9' table a tournament player should be able to give up 7/4 on the money

Any reasonable "short stop" can win against the ghost on regulation equipment.

I used to give up 7/5 playing the 10 Ball ghost on a 10' table.....last time I got faded it took 45 minutes to win "10 ahead"....on a 9' table a tournament player should be able to give up 7/4 on the money and still win over time.



KMRUNOUT said:
Curious...

What skill level would people rate the 9 ball ghost? In other words, what level player is expected to beat the ghost 50% of the time in a race to 9?

First off, to me the ghost works like this:

--regular rack, no special pattern
--break the balls, take ball in hand no matter what (scratch is ok)
--if you run out or make an early 9 ball, you win, otherwise you lose.
--race to 9
--9 foot table with average pockets

This is the easiest version of the ghost, but I think its how most play?

Anyway, so who should beat the ghost? I feel like a B player *may* beat the ghost on occassion, but very very rarely. Usually I think the B player will get out of line at least once per rack on average, and so won't run out consistently.

I must say even some of the A players might have some trouble. I would expect an "open" player to win almost every time, and an A player wins maybe 50% of the time. I would say someone who is the *favorite* against the ghost (wins more than 50%) is at least a solid A player.

This sound right to people? Thoughts?

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...
 
I wonder what the odds are of getting a cluster-fooked layout that no one can run?

When I watched Dennis Orcullo playing 9-ball ghost he broke the rack very softly -- just enough to spread the balls out but very few of them down-table. Wonder if that's a common strategy?
 
bdorman said:
I wonder what the odds are of getting a cluster-fooked layout that no one can run?

When I watched Dennis Orcullo playing 9-ball ghost he broke the rack very softly -- just enough to spread the balls out but very few of them down-table. Wonder if that's a common strategy?
Click to expand...

I've seen some local players here play the ghost and break soft. They were playing on a 7ft Diamond. One of them was playing the 10-ball ghost 10 ahead and beat it in less than 30 minutes. He ran 10 in a row.
 
marek said:
It is all about what does "A-player" or "open player" mean.i dont remember losing to 9b ghost in very long time,i usually score in 9:2-9:4 range but i dont feel like "open player" yet,it takes lot more than being good offensive player to be in "open player" class in my eyes. Just my opinion ;)

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Click to expand...

Sure, I mean, I have a decent safety game so that makes up for some of my runout mistakes. But I'm just curious if an "A" player should be winning most times? And CJ, I'd say your a wee bit above "A" player status so I'm not sure your experience says much about mine haha!

KMRUNOUT
 
Let me phrase it another way...if I beat the ghost about 50% of the time, would you call me an A player?

KMRUNOUT
 
I must really be a crappy "B" (going by BCA rank)
I would beat the ghost maybe 2 out of 9 games, not sets, on my table, 9' with tight pockets, 4 3/8", on a Valley I can beat ghost about double that. I dont think there are many "A" BCA ranked players that will run out consistently in a regular 9 ball tournament. Before our state tournament I was going to a weekly 9 ball tournament and I never had 1 opponent break & run, I broke and ran 2xs over same period of time. I would say I would fit in around the lowest 20%-30% skill level in those 9 ball tournaments. My 9 ball game is pretty weak, I seldom play or even practice 9 ball.
 
What I think of ABCD levels, I'd say your estimation is about right, the ghost is an average or low level A-player.

I myself am quite a bit lower lever player than the ghost, meaning that I can sometimes win in a race to 9, assuming the table breaks easy, but the ghost is still an obvious favourite. And I consider myself as an average B-player.

Then again, I live in a country in which the level of play is not as good as that in the big pool countries, such as the US, so my estimate of my own level might be too high globally.

In the end, I'd think the ABCD-rankings are quite subjective.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Let me phrase it another way...if I beat the ghost about 50% of the time, would you call me an A player?

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...

I would say yes. I've never seen someone that could be called a B player that could beat the ghost on average. As you mentioned, maybe on a really good day a B player will win a race to say 10, but not long races or consistently.

Lewis
 
I am a AA player and when I am playing good regularly beat the ghost.
I don't expect an A player to beat the ghost. Just a few too many position errors.
Shortstops beat the ghost maybe 60 percent plus.

When you runout on the ghost and win most sets you have the potential to beat anybody. A very fine line for me. When in stroke and motivated I surprise myself and run 3 packs or more. Hardest part is motivation, good weather is here and little action anymore.
 
john schmidt and charlie williams spotted the ghost 5 games or more on a race to 10 at grovers bout 15 year ago and won.
 
Its not that easy to say...,

lewis_rva said:
I would say yes. I've never seen someone that could be called a B player that could beat the ghost on average. As you mentioned, maybe on a really good day a B player will win a race to say 10, but not long races or consistently.

Lewis
Click to expand...

I know a guy in Houston that can spot the ghost 3 on the wire going to 9, but he cant beat any of the top players in 9 or 10 Ball even. He still needs a ball to have chance to beat them, so is he an A Player?

He cant beat the A players, but he beats the 9 and 10 Ball ghost?
 
King T said:
I know a guy in Houston that can spot the ghost 3 on the wire going to 9, but he cant beat any of the top players in 9 or 10 Ball even. He still needs a ball to have chance to beat them, so is he an A Player?

He cant beat the A players, but he beats the 9 and 10 Ball ghost?
Click to expand...

There are many things going on here.

First of all, spotting someone a ball (meaning giving the 8 or 9) doesn't mean shit. If you can run the rack to the last ball, you can also run it to the end. That is no spot, really.

Second, playing against the ghost, which is usually done without money on the table, is quite different from playing against an opponent, with pressure, coming from a bet and/or audience or whatever.

E. Also, as I understand it, the top players in a big city aren't A-players, they should be called A+ (a shortstop) or something like that.
 
good post, i have wanted to post the same thing myself,because i wonder where i rank, i feel i am a decent "B" player statewide and probably nationally as well,but i wonder where some of the other players that play better then me rank. I like the ranking system AAA,AA,A,B,C,D because it gives lots of room for small differences in ability,but now figuring who fits into what category is the problem. I live in Indiana and some of the better players around me are Mark Jarvis,George Breedlove,Brian Greg,Steve Oaks,Brian Groce, ...all who on any given day can beat any touring pro out there and have many times. Where do you rank these guys against the touring pro,are most of the pros considered to be AAA players, then that puts these guys at about AA level,then the guys right below them that they beat more than 50% of the time are A players,then there is me who the A players beat more then 50 % of the time and so on...i think the key is that 50% mark with each level. People in our local tournaments handicaps go up and down with no reason or ryme and i keep telling the owner,the change has to be made by figuring their winning percentage against players at their own level to be accurate and impartial,but he doesnt want to do the work of keeping track of that,so its a whinning session each week about handicaps and people go up and down like a roller coaster,after the Calcutta is ran off BTW,its like wth,if i would have known their handicap was going to be different then last week i wouldnt have tried to buy them,in short,its all screwed up.with no salvation in sight...:( ....anyways i feel i dont beat the 9ball ghost using the same rules as stated more then 50% of the time on average equipment and i am a solid "B" player.
 
Going by Shannon Daltons, The Southern Billiard Tour ratings of AA, A, B and so on. The AA's are road players like Richy Richerson, Benny Conway and so on. I feel that most A players can beat the 9 ball ghost consistently, with some beating the 10 ball ghost and all AA players beating the 10 ball ghost.
 
Yes, I'd call you an "A" player.

KMRUNOUT said:
Let me phrase it another way...if I beat the ghost about 50% of the time, would you call me an A player?

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd call you an "A" player.....not quite "AA" (they can beat the 10 Ball ghost) and only "AAA" if you can beat the ghost playing 10 Ball and give up 7/6 on the money (on tough equipment).
 
My son was ranked as an A player on Shannon's tour and I was ranked B+. If we are both shooting average he will beat the ghost over 50% of the time and I won't. So I guess the A or B rating test holds true for us.
 
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