How to deal effectively with the Knocker
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
I just filled in some blanks,if you like this story please re read the last post
spell check and added info you will need to appreciate the rest of this story
25 % new stuff since the original
next installment will include the $2,000,000 shot,The wizard and the phone booth gaff
since this is not just about pool i have included a few gaff bets that i hope you guys enjoy
I will hold off on the poker score for now,it happened at the pool hall but was not technically
a pool score
see you guys this evening if I can get the time
spell check and added info you will need to appreciate the rest of this story
25 % new stuff since the original
next installment will include the $2,000,000 shot,The wizard and the phone booth gaff
since this is not just about pool i have included a few gaff bets that i hope you guys enjoy
I will hold off on the poker score for now,it happened at the pool hall but was not technically
a pool score
see you guys this evening if I can get the time
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Guys today have no style.
Last time I walked into Good Timez it was empty except for two poker players dressed in sweats playing one pocket for $25K a game. There was one guy watching them. No tomatoes or limo's in sight.
As for knockers I see it both ways. If a guy is looking to steal from someone I know I could give a shit less if he or anyone else calls me a knocker for smartening up a friend. People I don't know or like can learn on their own.
Anyone who would let a friend get taken off because they were afraid to be labeled a knocker is a scumbag. On the other end of the extreme is the know it all who whispers in everyones ear trying to look smart. I gotta say though its only pool where I have seen people berated for not letting someone else steal from strangers. Cause at the end of the day thats what it really is. Killing baby seals. We dress it up in romantic "hustler' or gambling terms but its one guy taking advantage of another guy in the end.
I wonder if guys on Wall Street call people knockers when they spill the beans on insider trading?
Last time I walked into Good Timez it was empty except for two poker players dressed in sweats playing one pocket for $25K a game. There was one guy watching them. No tomatoes or limo's in sight.
As for knockers I see it both ways. If a guy is looking to steal from someone I know I could give a shit less if he or anyone else calls me a knocker for smartening up a friend. People I don't know or like can learn on their own.
Anyone who would let a friend get taken off because they were afraid to be labeled a knocker is a scumbag. On the other end of the extreme is the know it all who whispers in everyones ear trying to look smart. I gotta say though its only pool where I have seen people berated for not letting someone else steal from strangers. Cause at the end of the day thats what it really is. Killing baby seals. We dress it up in romantic "hustler' or gambling terms but its one guy taking advantage of another guy in the end.
I wonder if guys on Wall Street call people knockers when they spill the beans on insider trading?
Where did dean copy that from?
No credit = plagarism.
No credit = plagarism.
Is knocking ever good?You decide
Pete Glenn who many of you knew as papa Glenn was possibly the best pool scuffler of all time.He also owned pool rooms in Phoenix and Cleveland,if memory serves
He raised 3 good boys,one named Denny (who owns about 200 Balabushkas and 200 Szamboti cues
You guys may have met him,The Glenn collection is often shown at pool tournaments or pool cue collector shows
Our story begins when little Denny was getting his pool training,an education for a pool player was never more faithfully executed
than the one papa Glenn gave to the Glenn boys
One day the curriculum got the point of pointing out Knockers,papa pointed these guys out and
explained their methods ,motivations,and the action killing results,along with the admonition"Don't ever knock Denny,I don't want to ever hear of you knocking.This was part of his daily instruction,father to son.
One late day Pete returned to the pool room with little Denny to find a well dressed fella hitting bank shots,Pete fancied himself a bank pool player,one thing led to another until the game was on,Pete threw off the first few games to increase the wager and shortly was $600 a game,soon thereafter Pete was paying off the last game of a $3000 loss
Later he said to himself in Denny's presence,"Who was that guy?"
Denny piped up"oh that's the guy that's been taking off everybody in town"
Pete said"why didn't you tell me?"
Denny replied "Daddy you told me not to knock"
Pete Glenn who many of you knew as papa Glenn was possibly the best pool scuffler of all time.He also owned pool rooms in Phoenix and Cleveland,if memory serves
He raised 3 good boys,one named Denny (who owns about 200 Balabushkas and 200 Szamboti cues
You guys may have met him,The Glenn collection is often shown at pool tournaments or pool cue collector shows
Our story begins when little Denny was getting his pool training,an education for a pool player was never more faithfully executed
than the one papa Glenn gave to the Glenn boys
One day the curriculum got the point of pointing out Knockers,papa pointed these guys out and
explained their methods ,motivations,and the action killing results,along with the admonition"Don't ever knock Denny,I don't want to ever hear of you knocking.This was part of his daily instruction,father to son.
One late day Pete returned to the pool room with little Denny to find a well dressed fella hitting bank shots,Pete fancied himself a bank pool player,one thing led to another until the game was on,Pete threw off the first few games to increase the wager and shortly was $600 a game,soon thereafter Pete was paying off the last game of a $3000 loss
Later he said to himself in Denny's presence,"Who was that guy?"
Denny piped up"oh that's the guy that's been taking off everybody in town"
Pete said"why didn't you tell me?"
Denny replied "Daddy you told me not to knock"
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GoldenFlash
Banned
The wheels of justice roll slowly.....
Sooner or later, (usually later), any well known knocker ends up dead in the alley with the rats licking him.
They ALL have a death wish anyway. :shrug:
Sooner or later, (usually later), any well known knocker ends up dead in the alley with the rats licking him.
They ALL have a death wish anyway. :shrug:
Dear flash
you sound like a bully
or a blow hard
really are you guys really this shallow?
i doubt very seriously you would have lasted in the pool rooms i am describing
if you met billy t or vernon or george mcgan or RD any of the others i would doubt you would be talking so rough
i don't like knockers but this tough talk is not any thing like the way to handle them
it is sickening
once again no feedback
no buying ,no selling,probably no playing,no gamble
This talk is exactly what people expect from pool groupies
you sound like a bully
or a blow hard
really are you guys really this shallow?
i doubt very seriously you would have lasted in the pool rooms i am describing
if you met billy t or vernon or george mcgan or RD any of the others i would doubt you would be talking so rough
i don't like knockers but this tough talk is not any thing like the way to handle them
it is sickening
once again no feedback
no buying ,no selling,probably no playing,no gamble
This talk is exactly what people expect from pool groupies
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GoldenFlash
Banned
Thanks...coming from you, this makes me very happy
However, there is something I remember well from my younger years (and if you are a guy named Stafford Dean who ran with some of that old Dixie Mafia..back in the late 40's and 50's you will remember it too).
Here 'tis===>Words to remember from my dad: "Listen up, kid, Smith & Wesson and Colt didn't stop production after you bought yours. In a pool room, keep your mouth shut and reveal nothing"
Have a good day.
Oh, I'm not tough at all. I'm a coward through and through....scared of everybody. I don't play very good either.
However, there is something I remember well from my younger years (and if you are a guy named Stafford Dean who ran with some of that old Dixie Mafia..back in the late 40's and 50's you will remember it too).
Here 'tis===>Words to remember from my dad: "Listen up, kid, Smith & Wesson and Colt didn't stop production after you bought yours. In a pool room, keep your mouth shut and reveal nothing"
Have a good day.
does having the only gun in the world make you feel warm and fuzzy
only once (since the late 50's) can i recall a knocker getting his ass beat, as a rule they are treated like a pariah
Pete Glenn got me for $120 when he was like 70 years old and I was about 55. :bow-down: Came in local pool room quiet like. Left one hour later with my hundy and change.
JoeyA
JoeyA
I can't figure out why room owners allow these guys to even be there.
They almost never have any money, they don't buy anything , they want free coffee and complain about the tables , bathrooms , service, price of playing.
They swoop in on kids and guys with their girlfriends and run them off , if they get beat , there is always a big hulabaloo, that usually ends with them not paying.
The weird thing is , I have seen room owners , allow them to run off decent, paying customers and wonder why they can't make it in the business.
They almost never have any money, they don't buy anything , they want free coffee and complain about the tables , bathrooms , service, price of playing.
They swoop in on kids and guys with their girlfriends and run them off , if they get beat , there is always a big hulabaloo, that usually ends with them not paying.
The weird thing is , I have seen room owners , allow them to run off decent, paying customers and wonder why they can't make it in the business.
The 4th installment or
THE CAPER CONTINUES
The story started out with an imaginative removal of Johnny Ervolino
someone you guys know or should know well
Not a bad guy,and i think you will agree he is all the better for it
The caper began with the Kid taking over center stage at the pool room with an imaginative
plan involving a loss of money to johnny,Flashing a huge bank roll,coming and going at his own times and seasons,high tipping,careless handling of the bank roll and losing many bets without the least concern
Occasionally someone gets excited and the kid can take off a score,but he remains the same guy
The story,like the score itself seems to be a let down after the elaborate staging
but that is the way it always is with the Big Score,or long Con
So now the drug Lord or King Pin has finally come to the pool room,when outta the blue one large show biz entertainer and a few of less repute,at the request of the hotel Casino owner
come to invite the kid to stay fully compted at Las Vegas finest for as long as he wants,free suite,free food,free show tickets...you name it
The Kid lays down a nonchalant dis interest giving the tickets to the bar help,the shine boy,the pizza delivery boy
all the regular working people
in other words the kid impresses the poor fellas who never have any way to return the favor.
just the opposite of the way most people act.Naturally this labels the Kid as a sucker,a fool,a man soon to be parted with his precious cargo.
KP is introduced in an off hand casual way and the kid invites the Kp into his circle warning him of the sharks ,sharps and wise guys.A complete reversal of rolls for KP
KP is reminded of his youthful days and what it was like to have fun,to just love life and be carefree
KP announces "I love this kid"
The casino owner who was experiencing large profits off Kp in the upstairs private room where he ran a n honest game,just ask him.But he was staking really great player to play for the house against the KP so casino owner is protecting his investment while at the same time enjoying himself
The casino owner has called Eddie Taylor from Louisiana to be on call in case something big happens
like prop bets on banks.This is Eddie'the Knoxville Bear'Taylor
the best banker to ever live, And he knows lots of proposition bets,and so a fellow shill introduces one after another and our hero falls for everyone
When he pays off everyone who bet,the kid says no more bets under $1000,I'm too far behind
as if he just arrived at one of the tables and finding an object ball frozen to the side rail
slightly over hanging the pocket with the cue ball in the middle of the table about 2 inches on the same half as the object ball
the kid says"i bet i can bank that in the other side pocket"
"Impossible" whispers almost every voice in the joint
"you think so,i will take 50 shots to make it for $25000"
Eddie steps up,examines the position of the cue ball and object ball
Eddie ask"mind if i mark the spots so each of the 50 is the same shot?"
ok says the kid
Eddie then states the proposition,no trick shots,,an honest bank like in a game,no 3 rail reverse English etc
ok
Eddie says I will take $25,000 of my own money
The general sentiment is that if the worlds foremost banking expert likes it,it must be a dead cold lock.
King pin says I will take $200,000
covered says the kid
then the casino owner says,not wanting to be out done "I will take a million
and in a avalanche of betting everyone in the room bets ,$10,000 here,
$20,000 there until a grand total of $1,300.000 is bet and posted or guaranteed by the casino man or the King pin
The kid deposited $3,00,000 at the cage of the casino upon arrival so the casino man says" the Hotel will honor the bet"
the kid says to him"you want the rest?"
well $3,000.000 was a lot of money way back then but the casino had untold reserves
so the casino owner says "done,the window is closed"
So now the kid has 50 shots to make the bank just one time.Sounds like a lot of shots,but the general understanding is that the shot is impossible
the kid misses 5 times,double kissing the cue ball or missing by a foot or two each effort,then a second 5 shots of the same,then another 5 but suddenly whack the bank shot flies in the hole. The crowd is astonished,the place goes dead still and then the King Pin arises ,walks over to the kid and says "i love it,congratulations"
The casino man does the same and they all pick up the money and go to the casino
The kids parting words to the patrons of the pool room "See ya tomorrow"
and this part ends here but the really high action is yet to come in the highest single Titanic score
ever
THE CAPER CONTINUES
The story started out with an imaginative removal of Johnny Ervolino
someone you guys know or should know well
Not a bad guy,and i think you will agree he is all the better for it
The caper began with the Kid taking over center stage at the pool room with an imaginative
plan involving a loss of money to johnny,Flashing a huge bank roll,coming and going at his own times and seasons,high tipping,careless handling of the bank roll and losing many bets without the least concern
Occasionally someone gets excited and the kid can take off a score,but he remains the same guy
The story,like the score itself seems to be a let down after the elaborate staging
but that is the way it always is with the Big Score,or long Con
So now the drug Lord or King Pin has finally come to the pool room,when outta the blue one large show biz entertainer and a few of less repute,at the request of the hotel Casino owner
come to invite the kid to stay fully compted at Las Vegas finest for as long as he wants,free suite,free food,free show tickets...you name it
The Kid lays down a nonchalant dis interest giving the tickets to the bar help,the shine boy,the pizza delivery boy
all the regular working people
in other words the kid impresses the poor fellas who never have any way to return the favor.
just the opposite of the way most people act.Naturally this labels the Kid as a sucker,a fool,a man soon to be parted with his precious cargo.
KP is introduced in an off hand casual way and the kid invites the Kp into his circle warning him of the sharks ,sharps and wise guys.A complete reversal of rolls for KP
KP is reminded of his youthful days and what it was like to have fun,to just love life and be carefree
KP announces "I love this kid"
The casino owner who was experiencing large profits off Kp in the upstairs private room where he ran a n honest game,just ask him.But he was staking really great player to play for the house against the KP so casino owner is protecting his investment while at the same time enjoying himself
The casino owner has called Eddie Taylor from Louisiana to be on call in case something big happens
like prop bets on banks.This is Eddie'the Knoxville Bear'Taylor
the best banker to ever live, And he knows lots of proposition bets,and so a fellow shill introduces one after another and our hero falls for everyone
When he pays off everyone who bet,the kid says no more bets under $1000,I'm too far behind
as if he just arrived at one of the tables and finding an object ball frozen to the side rail
slightly over hanging the pocket with the cue ball in the middle of the table about 2 inches on the same half as the object ball
the kid says"i bet i can bank that in the other side pocket"
"Impossible" whispers almost every voice in the joint
"you think so,i will take 50 shots to make it for $25000"
Eddie steps up,examines the position of the cue ball and object ball
Eddie ask"mind if i mark the spots so each of the 50 is the same shot?"
ok says the kid
Eddie then states the proposition,no trick shots,,an honest bank like in a game,no 3 rail reverse English etc
ok
Eddie says I will take $25,000 of my own money
The general sentiment is that if the worlds foremost banking expert likes it,it must be a dead cold lock.
King pin says I will take $200,000
covered says the kid
then the casino owner says,not wanting to be out done "I will take a million
and in a avalanche of betting everyone in the room bets ,$10,000 here,
$20,000 there until a grand total of $1,300.000 is bet and posted or guaranteed by the casino man or the King pin
The kid deposited $3,00,000 at the cage of the casino upon arrival so the casino man says" the Hotel will honor the bet"
the kid says to him"you want the rest?"
well $3,000.000 was a lot of money way back then but the casino had untold reserves
so the casino owner says "done,the window is closed"
So now the kid has 50 shots to make the bank just one time.Sounds like a lot of shots,but the general understanding is that the shot is impossible
the kid misses 5 times,double kissing the cue ball or missing by a foot or two each effort,then a second 5 shots of the same,then another 5 but suddenly whack the bank shot flies in the hole. The crowd is astonished,the place goes dead still and then the King Pin arises ,walks over to the kid and says "i love it,congratulations"
The casino man does the same and they all pick up the money and go to the casino
The kids parting words to the patrons of the pool room "See ya tomorrow"
and this part ends here but the really high action is yet to come in the highest single Titanic score
ever
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Yer killin me , My ADHD DD HH with a side order of koo koo is going into overdrive.
this planned score,while having some resemblance to a pool table
game actually ends with more proposition bets,the way they are
introduced and some advanced examples of 'feeding the PIGEONS TO KEEP THEM HAPPY
Since I have let the original purpose get out of sight,i plan to let the story go
for now unless there is any interest in the art of the con or the spread
it involved how the kid maintained an image of careless indifference to the dollar
losing most bets in order to win the isolated Big score while looking stupid and lucky
Titanic used to study the way to handle these big fish so he would stick around until the
action
,rather the money was gone
unless i am misreading the pulse here on az, I think the
interest of most people is just the game of pool for pools sake
and this is good,but i can't tell you much about that
thank you for your time and the kind pms
If you know of a big player like king Pin or even the Casino owner
it might be interesting to discuss possibilities
game actually ends with more proposition bets,the way they are
introduced and some advanced examples of 'feeding the PIGEONS TO KEEP THEM HAPPY
Since I have let the original purpose get out of sight,i plan to let the story go
for now unless there is any interest in the art of the con or the spread
it involved how the kid maintained an image of careless indifference to the dollar
losing most bets in order to win the isolated Big score while looking stupid and lucky
Titanic used to study the way to handle these big fish so he would stick around until the
action
,rather the money was gone
unless i am misreading the pulse here on az, I think the
interest of most people is just the game of pool for pools sake
and this is good,but i can't tell you much about that
thank you for your time and the kind pms
If you know of a big player like king Pin or even the Casino owner
it might be interesting to discuss possibilities
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