How to develop an A player's stroke.

whitey2...People often ask me to post my schedule, to give them an opportunity to GET a lesson. You're correct about nobody knows it all. A good instructor is also a lifelong student. I am constantly learning new things, and better ways to communicate them to my students. I'm reasonably lucky, in that I know mostly what I don't know, and search out the answers! :D BTW, I'll be up in your neck of the woods in early March!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

whitey2 said:
Scott, you were not clear on whether you were looking to give lessons in
those states, or looking to get them, DOH :) You just said if anyone wanted
to work with you.

Remember, you can never learn too much!
No one knows it all!
You don't know what you don't know!

Ever wonder why some pros (and even experts) drop the elbow, and some
don't, DOH :)
Click to expand...
 
JoeyA, the impression I'm under is that you're already an A player and you're trying to get better. If this is the case, it's not necessarily your stroke or accuracy that needs work. The fact is, you already HAVE the tools to be better. It's just a matter of implementation.

I would strongly recommend watching as many videos as you can get your hands on. One I watched last night which I thought was VERY interesting was Rob Saez versus Jose Garcia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL4rnGYep7g). What I find most interesting about watching this particular match is that there are rarely moments where something miraculous happens. In fact, if you pay close attention, you'll see that they DON'T play perfect yet both players continue to play steady pool throughout the match. It turns into a bit of a grind.

Improving beyond A-level has more to do with playing percentages than it does about coming up with great shots. In the match I recommend you watching, there ARE moments where both players do something very impressive but most of the time, when they do, it was when no other options were readily available. Most of their shots (even their missed ones) were very doable. However, their foresight and experience carry them through the match.

I've played Robb Saez a few times and the fact is, he is the type of player that can easily get overlooked. You never see him recklessly turn a set into a shooting gallery nor do you see him bust out a remarkable stroke to get shape. All you see him do is win. IMO, he is a perfect player for anyone to model their game after with his healthy mix of solid shot-making, logical position play and timely defense.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think the over-the-spots drill (cue ball only straight up and down the center of the table) is a good one to start with. Use a stripe as the cue ball to see any unintended side spin immediately. Snooker champions are said to practice this, but at snooker there's enough money in the game that champions practice.

Do the draw drills in the Basics Clinic handout at www.sfbilliards.com but again use a stripe as your cue ball to get feedback about off-center hits. Here is the level 4 version of that drill: you have cue ball in hand in the kitchen. The object ball starts one diamond out of the kitchen. Pocket the object ball in a foot corner and draw to leave the cue ball within a diamond of the head rail. If you do this, put the object ball two diamonds out of the kitchen (by the side pockets) and again draw back to near the head rail. As with all "progressive practice" drills, if you fail to do it right, make the next shot easier by half a diamond and adjust half a diamond harder or easier for each subsequent shot.

Any A player should be able to get the object ball down to the foot pocket and still be 50% to leave the cue ball within a diamond of the head rail.

Remember to do this with a stripe as the cue ball so you can see off-center hits.

If you can't make good progress with this shot, find an instructor or go back to one of the easier levels of drills in the handout.

There is a new set of books of drills (or tests, really) in the PAT program. Some of those drills specifically test stroke accuracy.
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WOW!
Thanks for sharing some very useful free information with us AZers Bob. I browsed around your web site and I have to say that you have HUGE AMOUNTS of FREE INFORMATION on your web site that can help anyone's games. The drills are in http://www.sfbilliards.com/basics.pdf

I like the numerous articles that you have kept archived there to help anyone improve their game. Anyone can go there and retrieve all sorts of VALUABLE pool instruction free of charge.

Your pool school in San Francisco must be awesome.

The progressive drills are http://www.sfbilliards.com/progpract.pdf

Thanks again for all you do for pool. (Oh yeah, REP to you).:D

JoeyA
 
Rob Saez vs. jose Garcia

Jude Rosenstock said:
JoeyA, the impression I'm under is that you're already an A player and you're trying to get better. If this is the case, it's not necessarily your stroke or accuracy that needs work. The fact is, you already HAVE the tools to be better. It's just a matter of implementation.

I would strongly recommend watching as many videos as you can get your hands on. One I watched last night which I thought was VERY interesting was Rob Saez versus Jose Garcia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL4rnGYep7g). What I find most interesting about watching this particular match is that there are rarely moments where something miraculous happens. In fact, if you pay close attention, you'll see that they DON'T play perfect yet both players continue to play steady pool throughout the match. It turns into a bit of a grind.

Improving beyond A-level has more to do with playing percentages than it does about coming up with great shots. In the match I recommend you watching, there ARE moments where both players do something very impressive but most of the time, when they do, it was when no other options were readily available. Most of their shots (even their missed ones) were very doable. However, their foresight and experience carry them through the match.

I've played Robb Saez a few times and the fact is, he is the type of player that can easily get overlooked. You never see him recklessly turn a set into a shooting gallery nor do you see him bust out a remarkable stroke to get shape. All you see him do is win. IMO, he is a perfect player for anyone to model their game after with his healthy mix of solid shot-making, logical position play and timely defense.
Click to expand...

That business about me being an A player is all smoke and mirrors put in place from all of those road players I support when they come through town. AZers love to fan the fire too. A lot of my threads and posts are designed to help other AZers. I have receive much information from AZ Billiards and RSB in yesteryear and enjoy giving back to others in search for the Holy Grail.

I was watching a show on TV , maybe the learning channel and it was a school teacher talking to about 30 students about "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend". The school teacher kept the students in stitches but drove home the point really well. He told a GREAT STORY about Paul Revere, you know, the one that rode the horse, yelling "THE BRITISH ARE COMING". He rode all of 19 miles on his horse while another guy Ismael-somebody who rode like across several states with the same message warning people that the British were coming. No one remembers poor old Ismael but everyone know about Paul Revere from Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's poem. http://poetry.eserver.org/paul-revere.html

But I do thank you for your advice and I will watch more videos. I've gotten away from watching them in the past few years. My problem seems to be that I miss every now and then. Don't laugh and don't think I'm not being serious. I don't like missing ever and I want to know why I miss every time. Most of the time I can only guess why I miss and reallly want to eliminate missing altogether. :)

I like what you had to say about playing the percentages. I really just want to improve my consistency and think that if I can tweak just a bit more out of my stroke I will be where I want to be. I had a good match or two this weekend and it probably because of the azz-whup that a couple of other guys put on me during the week that helped me elevate my game a bit on the weekend.

I will check out that match .
Thanks for the input.

JoeyA
 
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av84fun said:
If that device helped you, I think that is GREAT. Good for you. But any such devise, whether stroking along the seem between the top rail and the cushion, or into a coke bottle...or through Buddy Hall's stroke trainer, merely alerts you to a variation from a true pendulum--straight back and forth stroke.

What it does not do, except I suppose by rote trial and error, is to instruct you as to WHY your stroke isn't straight.

A top instructor and tell in you 5 minutes why your stroke isn't straight and provide a SERIES of remedies that no machine can ever do.

You do have a fine looking stroke though and however you acquired it is great.

Regards,
Jim
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Hello Jim, The stroketrainer will tell you if you have a flaw in your stroke with in a very few strokes. As far as telling you why well you will see what you have been doing wrong while you are on it. If you can?t keep your hand against the guide plate while you are stroking then you have movement side to side in your stroke. With that being said while keeping you hand there you will train your muscle to go in a straight line more consistently. It will also teach you to have a steadier bridge hand and also help you find center ball. It is something you have to see and try to understand the concept I guess. If you ever see one somewhere try it. I think you will be impressed.
 
mr8ball said:
Hello Jim, The stroketrainer will tell you if you have a flaw in your stroke with in a very few strokes. As far as telling you why well you will see what you have been doing wrong while you are on it. If you can?t keep your hand against the guide plate while you are stroking then you have movement side to side in your stroke. With that being said while keeping you hand there you will train your muscle to go in a straight line more consistently. It will also teach you to have a steadier bridge hand and also help you find center ball. It is something you have to see and try to understand the concept I guess. If you ever see one somewhere try it. I think you will be impressed.
Click to expand...

Bought it several years ago :D True. Mine is black. Got it when I was posting a lot on the ccb.
 
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jay helfert said:
Eureka!

Question - How to develop an 'A' player's stroke?
Answer - Become one!
Click to expand...

That's all you got? Sheesh. I expected much more from you, GingerBread Man.

JoeyA
 
Pool

JoeyA said:
What tips might you offer to develop a super accurate stroke?

Are there and drills in particular that you would recommend?

Are there any particular things to remember to do when coming with the perfect stroke?

I'll offer one item and ask you to make other suggestions:

On your final stroke, pull the cue stick back more slowly than the rest of the strokes. This will help keep you from pulling the cue offline. It will also make the transition to the forward motion, more smoothly which also helps to keep the cue stick from being pulled offline.

Let's "hear" your BEST STUFF!

JoeyA
Click to expand...
BALL TO BALL POCKETS BALLS, NOT ANY KIND OF STROKE
 
BALL TO BALL POCKETS BALLS, NOT ANY KIND OF STROKE

There Are No Angles To Plot In Pocketing Balls. It Is All The Same Shot All The Time.

There Are No Angles To Plot In Banking Balls, It Is Always The Same Shot
Click to expand...

I think I'm getting the hang of this... lemme try one:

There are no balls.

Hey, this game is easy!

pj
chgo
 
halhoule said:
BALL TO BALL POCKETS BALLS, NOT ANY KIND OF STROKE
Click to expand...

Hal Houle.
How are you doing my man?
Hope everything is going well for you.
My Best,

JoeyA
 
Nice thread

Wanted to bump up this good thread. Also I use many of Joe Tucker's training aids and believe me THEY WORK.
 
i went to visit Hal the other day on my way to becoming a Houlagin. I must say his aiming system is quite interesting and I will definitely be going back to his house to learn some more. Hal and his wife and their dog Blackie are great entertainers and are the nicest people I have met in a long time. Hal is definitely a one of a kid person, and great to be around. I live to hear stories of the old days of pool, and Hal has surely got them!!!
 
jay helfert said:
Eureka!

Question - How to develop an 'A' player's stroke?
Answer - Become one!
Click to expand...

I love this answer... the best solutions are often the simplest ;)

This reminds me of another thread in which the original poster asked about what heart was... to which someone replied - playing your ordinary game under extraordinary circumstances.

Amen, brother. Amen.

Ray
 
You don't need an A-player's stroke. If you master english, you will get the easiest shots you will ever get.
 
Very important for a good stroke is the stance and the way you align yourself with the object ball . Easy to tell , hard to do it right . :D
 
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This is funny! I guess the pro players that come on here, telling us to master centerball (vertical axis shooting), instead of using sidespin on every shot, don't know what they're talking about! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

WesleyW said:
You don't need an A-player's stroke. If you master english, you will get the easiest shots you will ever get.
Click to expand...
 
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