How to play this?

There is the vertical masse in which you send the cue a few inches and have it turn around and knock the nine in. Of course, you might follow the nine in with the cue ball. Also, there's a way of spinning it in, too, but I don't know whether it would constitute a double hit.
 
Its impossble for me to even suggest what I might try.That kinda shot depends on the little things around the balls...tits,angles,closeness,relation to each other ect.It really has to be viewed from the top.The smallest of differences would define my attempt...and my most probable miss lol.

FWIW as I see it I'd stroke the cue hard with a masse type stroke turning the cue into the nine and following through with my tip going into the pocket.An attempt to squeeze the nine into the hole in a way...
 
Two possible choices, neither of them easy (depending on how tight the pockets you're playing are)....

1) Play the cue ball with outside (left) english towards the halfway point between the left and middle diamonds by the top right corner pocket and play it with speed.

2) Depending on the amount of room there is on the opposite side of the cue ball (between the cue and the tit), play the cue on a hair of angle with right english so it comes off the rail and clips the outside edge of the 9 ball.

I'll try these shots tonight and see if they work.
 
The out and in masse is a possibility, but would you ever play that in a tournament? I wouldn't unless there was absolutely no other way.

I understand that diagrams are really too hard to determine the finer details. With that said, I'll just say that the balls are frozen to one another, and also to the rail on both sides. The furthest that you can see along the upper left rail is about the 2-3 diamond. I can't recall at the moment.

My initial thought was maybe trying to come into the left side of the corner pocket with extreme low right. I was thinking that I could come one rail and back with the english. I was wrong...

I ended up making the shot according to what I layed out in the diagram. I aimed to the right of the side pocket with top-right and came 4 rails (5 if you include nipping the long rail before the 9).
 
Would I ever play that masse in a tournament? Well looking at the situation you are in, you are left with very few options considering a miss on your behalf would most certainly equal a win for your opponent. The answer to your question would be yes. Sometimes you are just forced to NUT UP, and take your lumps. You wont miss that shot 100% of the time, but if you give up ball in hand you will lose that game 99.99 of the time.
 
briandlau said:
The out and in masse is a possibility, but would you ever play that in a tournament? I wouldn't unless there was absolutely no other way.
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If the CB is frozen to the OB and the OB is in turn frozen to the rail, there is no better shot than the masse. The masse has to be a BIG favorite over a 4-rail kick. Any trick-shot using spin to turn the ball would likely result in a foul.

Would I do it in a tournament? YES, I've used it successfully in a game of 1P.

You stated that it took you several attempts to make the 4-railer. I made the masse on the first try and I can make the shot 75% of the time...cold. I'll make it 100% on the second try.

http://cuetable.com/P/?@3HcQg3PaUp3kaUp3kWKL3kWjD3kXhD3kYGE3kYnI3kbKT3kbKW@

BTW, here's another thread similar to yours. In this case, the balls were not reported to be frozen so some tricky double-kiss shots were a possibility...but I'd still throw down the masse.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=44561
 
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I think you guys are all over-thinking this one way too much. It is a simple throw shot. If they are frozen, then you are legally allowed to push through the cue ball. Do this with extreme left (which will impart right on the 9, and also get the cue ball out of the pocket).

Secondly, even if they are not frozen, shooting away from the pocket with left will probably still make the nine as it kisses back off the cue ball.

Someone convince me I am wrong, please.

p.s. after looking at the cue table again, it looks like the balls are frozen together and frozen to the rails. Makes the shot virtually unmissable with throw.
 
belmicah said:
I think you guys are all over-thinking this one way too much. It is a simple throw shot. If they are frozen, then you are legally allowed to push through the cue ball. Do this with extreme left (which will impart right on the 9, and also get the cue ball out of the pocket).

Secondly, even if they are not frozen, shooting away from the pocket with left will probably still make the nine as it kisses back off the cue ball.

Someone convince me I am wrong, please.

p.s. after looking at the cue table again, it looks like the balls are frozen together and frozen to the rails. Makes the shot virtually unmissable with throw.
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You cannot legally push through the cueball. It is a foul.

I guess I worded my original post in a confusing manner. My inital attempts were to go one rail and back. I only made it after going 4 rails. Sorry about that.
 
A little rail jump with top right spin has a good chance of knocking the 9 in. You would have to play with extreme top though so your cue ends up going over the CB after contact and not double hitting.
 
briandlau said:
You cannot legally push through the cueball. It is a foul.

I guess I worded my original post in a confusing manner. My inital attempts were to go one rail and back. I only made it after going 4 rails. Sorry about that.
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Please review the frozen ball rule before posting

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccbo...&Number=241720&page=0&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=&vc=

edit: I guess I have read different interpretations of the frozen ball rule and the push shot foul.

I know for a fact you can shoot through a cue ball that is frozen to the object ball, but a push shot IS a foul. SO I guess to sum it up, don't shoot the shot I described as a push shot that would result in a foul or double kiss. Shoot a normal stroke with extreme left and throw it in. It'll go..I pommiss;)
 
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belmicah is correct. The World Standardized Rules define such a situation.

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml


GENERAL RULES OF POCKET BILLIARDS said:
3.23 FOULS BY DOUBLE HITS

If the cue ball is touching the required object ball prior to the shot, the player may shoot toward it, providing that any normal stroke is employed. If the cue stick strikes the cue ball more than once on a shot, or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul. (See Rule 2.20 for judging this kind of shot.) If a third ball is close by, care should be taken not to foul that ball under the first part of this rule.
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belmicah said:
Please review the frozen ball rule before posting

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccbo...&Number=241720&page=0&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=&vc=
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Perhaps I was confusing the type osf shot that you were referring to. That particular shot is not a foul. However, I was imagining that you wanted to continue to spin the cue to cause the object ball to roll in. Not sure if I explained it right. The shot I'm referencing is indeed written off as a foul in Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards, I believe.
 
belmicah said:
Please review the frozen ball rule before posting

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccbo...&Number=241720&page=0&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=&vc=

edit: I guess I have read different interpretations of the frozen ball rule and the push shot foul.

I know for a fact you can shoot through a cue ball that is frozen to the object ball, but a push shot IS a foul. SO I guess to sum it up, don't shoot the shot I described as a push shot that would result in a foul or double kiss. Shoot a normal stroke with extreme left and throw it in. It'll go..I pommiss;)
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Phew, I didn't want to reply in a way to make you feel like I was insulting you. If you hit through a ball causing a throw is not a push shot.

We did try using extreme left and we had negative results. Perhaps due to the tight pockets or our lack of stroke. I hope the former...
 
briandlau said:
Phew, I didn't want to reply in a way to make you feel like I was insulting you. If you hit through a ball causing a throw is not a push shot.

We did try using extreme left and we had negative results. Perhaps due to the tight pockets or our lack of stroke. I hope the former...
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Damn, what type of rails/pockets are they? What size (look small)?

Are they shimmed?

I think I did this once with about a 4.5" pocket.
 
I would use a lot of right english and hit right before the opposite diagonal pocket's left point, it would then hit the right side of the right point and come back to you and drop the 9.

Make sure not to hit too much of the 9 when you shoot it on the way out. Otherwise, the cueball deflects, doesn't hit far enough down the rail, and goes toward the side pocket instead.
 
belmicah said:
Damn, what type of rails/pockets are they? What size (look small)?

Are they shimmed?

I think I did this once with about a 4.5" pocket.
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They are shimmed, although, I don't know the exact size. They really aren't THAT tight. just tight enough that two balls would wedge themselves before falling into the pocket.
 
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