How to Really Use English...

Kyzyl

Kyzyl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the book called, "A Mind for Pool" written by Philip B. Cappelle, it talks a little bit about how to really use english. I just wanted to share some thoughts from the book that I thought were really interesting and helped me improve my game. This guy is a certified instructor and has been around pool his entire life, so his knowledge is quite credible.

And I quote:

"English is sidespin. English is not center axis draw or follow."

"You only need english on 15-20 percent of your shots."

"Most of the time you should us no more than 1/2 tip of english."

"The further the object ball lies from the pocket, the less english you should apply."

"When you combine english with very much draw or follow, you should severely reduce the amount of sidespin."

"A lively cue and a smooth stroke can allow you to hit closer to the center axis and still achive the necessary english."

Most of you already know this, but for the new people on this forum and to the game, this is for you! There is more info in the book, and I highly recommend buying it.

Anyone disagree with these statements?
 
I have always been taught to use alot of spin like extreme sidespin to achieve position. I will try it tomorrow with less spin to see if I can get the same results.

Well, I don't always put extreme spin but I'm not scared to put a lot when needed, I got a good feeling of my cue's deflection.
 
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I have always used this rule of thumb. The use of English is to alter the cue balls' path, upon contact with the rail cushion, "after impact with the object ball".

** (absolutely cigardave - thanks)**
 
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ceebee said:
I have always used this rule of thumb, "the use of English is to alter the cue balls' path, after impact with the object ball".
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... (I would add at the end of the above)... upon contact with the rail cushion.

The only exception I know of is to use running english to "throw" the OB a bit... usually to minimize the travel of the CB down the tangent line... commonly done with a bit of draw as well.
 
Not the only exception Cigardave.........english as a means of altering the cue ball's path after hitting a cushion is not confined to only after contacting the object ball. It is of course also commonly used to alter the cue ball's path off a cushion before contacting the object ball;)
 
Kyzyl said:
...."A lively cue and a smooth stroke can allow you to hit closer to the center axis and still achive the necessary english."

Anyone disagree with these statements?
Click to expand...
Since the usual purpose of english is to alter the path off the cushion, and since the path is governed by the cueball's spin/speed ratio (for the most part) according to my understanding, and since this ratio is controlled by tip offset, I don't think this statement is quite right. A livelier cue or "smooth stroke" (if that means more cue speed for a particular shot) gets you more of both spin and speed, but still in the same ratio for a given tip offset...essentially the same anyway.

Jim
 
cigardave said:
... (I would add at the end of the above)... upon contact with the rail cushion.

The only exception I know of is to use running english to "throw" the OB a bit... usually to minimize the travel of the CB down the tangent line... commonly done with a bit of draw as well.
Click to expand...
I think you mean "outside" english - inside and outside are relative to object balls and cut angles, while running and reverse are relative to rails.

-djb
 
DoomCue said:
I think you mean "outside" english - inside and outside are relative to object balls and cut angles, while running and reverse are relative to rails.

-djb
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Well stated....randyg
 
It's my understanding that one should use english very sparingly... VERY sparingly. I think most players use english because it looks cool and that the use of english causes many more problems than it cures.

On cut shots the use of outside english (maybe running, maybe not) is, according to what I've learned, primarily used to avoid missing shots because of cling. I was also taught that there is no need to throw shots in except in the rare case that it is necessary because there is not room to cut it on or in the case of having to change the cut angle in order to have the cb move off the tangent line in one direction or the other.
 
I recall an old thread on sidespin "English" ...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=15788

There are some good comments in that thread, and I also posted this trivial analysis :

Look at the books The Pro Book (I own and use this book) and 99 Critical Shots (I've never seen this book let alone read it, I should). Count up the shots that suggest side-spin, and the ones that do not. I think that the answer will be pretty clear. Here are the numbers from The Pro Book

Simple Pots with Position
12 use sidespin
4 use no sidespin

Safeties
10 use sidespin
6 use no sidespin

Kicks
11 use sidespin
0 use no sidespin (!)

Kick Safeties
6 use sidespin
2 use no sidespin

Banks
3 use sidespin
5 use no sidespin

Somebody else can tally up the 99 Critical Shots

Dave
 
Kyzyl said:
In the book called, "A Mind for Pool" written by Philip B. Cappelle, it talks a little bit about how to really use english. I just wanted to share some thoughts from the book that I thought were really interesting and helped me improve my game. This guy is a certified instructor and has been around pool his entire life, so his knowledge is quite credible.

And I quote:

"English is sidespin. English is not center axis draw or follow."

"You only need english on 15-20 percent of your shots."

"Most of the time you should us no more than 1/2 tip of english."

"The further the object ball lies from the pocket, the less english you should apply."

"When you combine english with very much draw or follow, you should severely reduce the amount of sidespin."

"A lively cue and a smooth stroke can allow you to hit closer to the center axis and still achive the necessary english."

Most of you already know this, but for the new people on this forum and to the game, this is for you! There is more info in the book, and I highly recommend buying it.

Anyone disagree with these statements?
Click to expand...

The man knows of what he speaks.
 
Pretty common knowledge for intermediate to advanced players, but the use of English isn't always used to achieve 'un-natural' action off the rails after pocketing a ball. English can be used to pocket balls too. The most common example is hitting an ob thicker than the actual cut, and using the English to spin the ob thin in order to stop or kill the CB. More advanced examples would be a variation of the same shot. Hitting an OB thicker than it's actual cut, but with spin (outside English) will allow you to limit the amount of distance the CB takes on the tangent before the follow or draw overcomes. In other words, with changes in spin and speed combinations, you can considerably adjust how thick or thin you cut a ball, and as a result, can adjust your lines of follow and draw.
One of the most valuable pieces of advice I've ever received was to set up the exact same shot, and to see how much variation in lines you can get just by simply changing degrees of spin and speed.
Sigel was one of those players that could tighten or widen his CB action at will by using a combination of speeds, spins, and grips.
dave
 
PKM said:
So what exactly is a "lively cue"?
Click to expand...

Strange choice of words, but I would take it to mean a solid hitting cue, from the context of the sentence.
 
JimS said:
It's my understanding that one should use english very sparingly... VERY sparingly. I think most players use english because it looks cool and that the use of english causes many more problems than it cures.

On cut shots the use of outside english (maybe running, maybe not) is, according to what I've learned, primarily used to avoid missing shots because of cling. I was also taught that there is no need to throw shots in except in the rare case that it is necessary because there is not room to cut it on or in the case of having to change the cut angle in order to have the cb move off the tangent line in one direction or the other.
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YES! He said many things about how english can eaither make your game or break it. He aslo advised that younger players shouldnt mess with english untill they got their shots down! Thanks, you hit it right on the nose.

This is turning into a good informative post, I want to bring some of those back to this forum for the guests. (as I used to be)
 
Kyzyl said:
In the book called, "A Mind for Pool" written by Philip B. Cappelle, it talks a little bit about how to really use english. I just wanted to share some thoughts from the book that I thought were really interesting and helped me improve my game. This guy is a certified instructor and has been around pool his entire life, so his knowledge is quite credible.

And I quote:

"English is sidespin. English is not center axis draw or follow."

"You only need english on 15-20 percent of your shots."

"Most of the time you should us no more than 1/2 tip of english."

"The further the object ball lies from the pocket, the less english you should apply."

"When you combine english with very much draw or follow, you should severely reduce the amount of sidespin."

"A lively cue and a smooth stroke can allow you to hit closer to the center axis and still achive the necessary english."

Most of you already know this, but for the new people on this forum and to the game, this is for you! There is more info in the book, and I highly recommend buying it.

Anyone disagree with these statements?
Click to expand...

Would'nt disagree - but to put things in context, this is good
general advice for beginer/intermediate players while learning
the game.

IMHO if you watch or talk to advanced players, you will learn that
sidespin, in all its subtle variations, is vital in playing well. Especialy
in more complex games like One Pocket or Straight Pool and even
some thorny run-outs in 8 ball. You can not overstate the importance
of just the right amount of English combined with stun.
Developing this skill changed my game overnight.

Much of what has been posted seems to be geared to moving the CB.
I often use English more to kill the CB. Sometimes, changing the line by
1/2 inch makes all the diference.

Remember, there is a world of difference between
using a lot of English, and using English a lot. Speed and
angle are very important, but there are times when they are not enough.

When you can judge just how much and how often, you're ready to
start really playing.

Dale<who pretty much got it down in just a few decades>
 
i was taught at a young age by a very proficient player that it's very rare that you'll ever stroke a cue ball with no english, so why not learn how to use the spin in you're favor. if you watch the game allot you'll notice that many top players, including Efren, use some sort of spin, whether it be side top or bottom, on almost every shot. once a player knows the "throw" or deflection of their cue they can use this to their advantage while shooting. for example on "open" shots (ones that will travel inside the angle) it tends to make you (see) aim the angle slightly closed but the use of slight english opens it up to the "on line" path. it does just the opposite for "closed" shots (ones traveling outside the angle). the "trick", so to speak, is that you must "see" the path (angle) correctly or you can miss the shot as bad as anyone. this method of play can really screw up a "non" players game but imo someone who already has a good "feel" for the game can benefit from this greatly and raise their level of play greatly.
 
I read that book front to back.......I would recomend it!!!!

But, when I use English......I just push 1 .....:D

Russ.........
 
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