How to test for squirt?
- Thread starter JimS
- Start date
Set up cue ball and an object ball from fairly far away, opposite pockets you'd be shooting across the table. Balls should be at least 5' to 6' apart. And it will be a straight in shot.
Hit the cue ball with extreme left or right english, but do not compensate for squirt. And see if you make the object ball straight in....this should be done with a 9" or 8" table... not a barbox, since lighter balls tend to deflect a little more than heavier ones.
If it you make the shot without compensating then you have a low deflection shaft. I seem to alway make this shot 8 out of 10 with my Z2 shaft...
please let me know how you did, I have been thinking of doing the same to my OB1...
Hit the cue ball with extreme left or right english, but do not compensate for squirt. And see if you make the object ball straight in....this should be done with a 9" or 8" table... not a barbox, since lighter balls tend to deflect a little more than heavier ones.
If it you make the shot without compensating then you have a low deflection shaft. I seem to alway make this shot 8 out of 10 with my Z2 shaft...
please let me know how you did, I have been thinking of doing the same to my OB1...
Last edited:
racer rx said:
That's what I've been doing this evening. It just seemed that there might be a better, more scientific, way to do this. A lot of the results fall on my ability to aim straight and reliably and I'd like a more objective method. I've been shooting hard in order to maximize squirt so this tends to screw up my accuracy. It's going to take a while and I see that I'll have to keep some records in order to figure out what I've got here.
I have an OB 1 shaft cut down to 12.25 mm and had the ferrule replaced and the pad removed by Kevin Varney. With the Morri Quick installed it hits a little better but, per his suggestion, I think I need to try a Talisman x-hard tip. I have one to put on it but will be out of town all weekend so all testing will be on hold for a few days. For comparison I have 2 Predator sp's, one with a Z and one with a 314. I also have other "regular" cues to compare these with.
I guess my goal is to get the OB1 to have the crisp hit that I like but still retain its low squirt characteristics.
Last edited:
JimS said:
Try the test described in the current issue of Billiards Digest and is available here:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2007/nov07.pdf
Thanks Mike.
While trying to get to sleep I decided to not use any object ball and in that way not have to think about throw. Seems like a better test would be one that I read abouit some time ago where a piece of carbon paper is inserted between two pieces of note book paper and bent around the foot rail cushion. A line is drawn for a target and that cb is placed on the head string. The cb is shot at the target line and the amount it squirts is recorded on the paper under the carbon paper.
Seems like if I do this for each cue, say 10 shots each, trying as best I can to duplicate the speed and amount of english applied I might get some decent data.
While trying to get to sleep I decided to not use any object ball and in that way not have to think about throw. Seems like a better test would be one that I read abouit some time ago where a piece of carbon paper is inserted between two pieces of note book paper and bent around the foot rail cushion. A line is drawn for a target and that cb is placed on the head string. The cb is shot at the target line and the amount it squirts is recorded on the paper under the carbon paper.
Seems like if I do this for each cue, say 10 shots each, trying as best I can to duplicate the speed and amount of english applied I might get some decent data.
This is how I was going to recommend you do it, but I suggest trying it two ways:
1. with the CB less than halfway down the table, so your butt is over the end rail
2. with the CB more than halfway down the table, so your butt is not over the end rail (and the cue held as level as possible)
Of course, shot 1 is longer than shot 2, so you'll have to multiply the squirt measured in shot 2 by the difference to compare.
I think the results will be noticably (maybe dramatically) different because of the presence (1) and absence (2) of swerve.
pj
chgo
PS: I tape the carbon paper to a flat piece of wood (stood against the end rail) so I can get smaller marks.
Why?
pj
chgo
The location of the pivot point that people get for the "low" squirt cues, for instance, is all over the place. And many of the testers are techically savy.Patrick Johnson said:
I'm not implying that I know any better, but I think two things are crucial to performing the aim-and-pivot test with accuracy (hopefully). One is to wet the contact area on the object ball to reduce throw to near zero. The other is to judge a full hit not by what the cueball does after impact (ie, spinning in place), but by what the object ball does (ie, takes off straight along the pre-shot line of centers).
Then maybe select a point at random along the shaft and call that the pivot point.
I know you're pretty meticulous with the tests you've performed. If you've measured the pivot point for a low squirt shaft, or any for that matter, as I'm sure you have, Dr. Dave Alciatore over on the Billiards Digest forum would be interested in your results, I'm sure. He's been asking for people to report them.
(I'd be happy to relay the information.)
Jim
JimS...I would be surprised if the manufacturer of the OB1 shaft does not publish squirt data. Predator does. Of course, they could be lying but they would risk their competition publishing independent scientific research to expose the lie.
Given in inability for most human beings to deliver the tip to an EXACT spot on the CB with any consistency...especially at the high speeds required to test for maximum squirt, the manufacturer's data would probably be as reliable as anything.
Best,
Jim
Given in inability for most human beings to deliver the tip to an EXACT spot on the CB with any consistency...especially at the high speeds required to test for maximum squirt, the manufacturer's data would probably be as reliable as anything.
Best,
Jim
Here's the simplest squirt test I know: freeze three OBs in the middle of the short rail. Remove the middle ball, then part the remaining two slightly so there's about a 1-1/2 ball space in there. With the CB on the spot farthest from the two balls, try to get in and out of the space between them with maximum English. So far, only Predator and Smart Shaft have passed this test; haven't tried with the OB-1. GF
mikepage said:
I agree Mike,
I've used George's method to explain Squirt/Deflection to players. And how much you have to compensate to hit the middle of the two balls.
All the players and their cues (hundreds of different cues) were able to end up compensating to be able to hit the middle of these two balls.
The players with the Predators still had to compensate.
My low-squirt shaft (10mm hollow tip with straight taper) has a pivot point of 24.0 inches, measured as carefully as I can with swerve minimized but probably not eliminated. Performing the same tests on an off-the-shelf Joss (13mm normal tip with pro taper) produces a pivot point of 8.8 inches.
I measured these pivot points two different ways with identical results:
1. The aim-and-pivot test described in the RSB FAQ.
2. Measuring tip offset and total squirt over a measured distance.
pj
chgo
Last edited:
For instance, with the two shafts I reported on a few minutes ago here (custom low-squirt shaft and off-the-shelf Joss shaft), with a 1/3-inch tip offset and a 3-foot shot, you'd make the shot by aiming about 1/2 inch off with the low-squirt shaft vs. about 1-1/3 inch off with the Joss (with swerve minimized).Tom In Cincy said:
Edit: I just tried this with the two shafts and confirmed.
pj
chgo
Last edited:
I propose the shot I use to demonstrate different squirt in different cues to students: Freeze an object ball to the middle of the foot rail. Put the cue ball on the head spot. Using maximum side, land the cue ball on the cushion next to the ball and spin into it to pocket it.JimS said:
When demonstrating the shot, I ask the student to stand down by the object ball and tell me where the stick is pointing when I shoot. I don't know where the stick is pointing. Really. I know where it feels like it is pointing, but I'm often way off. That doesn't keep me from making the shot with either a 14-mm blunderbuss or my sub-predator-squirt Stroud special shaft. I just adjust, and sometimes that's over a ball in where the stick is pointing for different shafts as reported by the unbiased observer.
Can you describe the special design features that make it sub-Predator-squirt?
pj
chgo