How to visualize "skid"?

weakfingers

weakfingers

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There must have been times that balls have skidded on me, but I never like to blame my mistakes on equipment.

The question I have is on this shot by Mike Dechaine on the 6 ball... Jim Wych claims the 6 skidded and that's why it missed. Agree/disagree? How can you tell from the way the ball is rolling?

I do notice a bit of sidespin slightly after contact and then it rolled forward, but couldn't you say it's bad contact as well?
 
"skid" is when the ball slides BEFORE rolling, which changes the path of the ball. This is why brand new felt is so difficult to play on. Blaming a missed shot on "skid" is perfectly legitamte. Some people might call "skid" when it actually didn't, but when it really does happen its not really the shooters fault.

The only way to prevent this is the have 100% clean equipment. And even then im not sure.
 
Good question.

Sometimes, when people talk about skid, they almost make it sound like the object ball 'curves'. Like it starts out undercutting...then it corrects itself and starts travelling along the intended line.

I don't think this happens. I think a skid still sends the ball in a normal straight line, and visually you can't recognize a skid just by which direction the ball went. Undercutting might be skid or the player might have just undercut the ball.

Instead, the only visual cue you see is, especially with stripes, the object ball seems to 'turn over'... like it starts out spinning backwards, then switches and starts rolling forward. But then again... at the right speed, an object ball starts out sliding then picks up forward roll from the table, just like the cue ball will when struck firmly. So the 'turn over' we see might just the ball switching from sliding mode to rolling mode.

To me, the #1 clear cut way to recognize skid is by sound. It makes a unique hollow sound at the moment of impact. Kind of like "thud" instead of "click". Without the sound, I would not be 100% sure whether I witnessed a skid or not.

That shot mike missed was certainly missable under pressure.
 
Eddie May said:
"skid" is when the ball slides BEFORE rolling, which changes the path of the ball. This is why brand new felt is so difficult to play on.
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1. The OB always slides before rolling; it's just increased (so more visible) with skid.

2. Sliding doesn't change the OB's path; its path is changed entirely during contact with the CB (like normal throw, only more).

3. New cloth doesn't have anything to do with it.

pj
chgo
 
Sometimes it's subtle though. I attempted to shoot a 6B the other night into the side pocket. I had to load up the CB with inside to hold the CB near the rail for the 7B. The 6B skidded dramatically, but because it doesn't have a stripe...no one saw it but me. It was a slow-roller too, so it wasn't audible.

Generally, it takes the form of an odd turn at the moment of impact. The OB will take a (small or large) turn to the same side the CB hit it before taking on the natural roll.

In extreme cases, you can hear a heavy "clunk" (instead of a click) when the OB & CB collide. The OB may even bounce a tiny bit.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
1. The OB always slides before rolling; it's just increased (so more visible) with skid.

2. Sliding doesn't change the OB's path; its path is changed entirely during contact with the CB (like normal throw, only more).

3. New cloth doesn't have anything to do with it.

pj
chgo
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Are you trying to say on new cloth balls don't slide instead of roll... Because if you are you sir are 100% wrong... When the ball slides more than it normally does instead of rolling it can alter the path of the ball, which is exactly what skid is.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
1. The OB always slides before rolling; it's just increased (so more visible) with skid.
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Er, no--almost always I will give you.

Consider hitting the CB softly with big draw so that the CB makes contact with the OB and is immediately drawing backwards. The backspinning contact causes forward spinning roll on the OB. The OB will have no skid or almost no skid. This kind of shot has to be performed with a raised cue butt to get enough draw for skid to equal zero. This is basically a draw massé that happens to make contact with an OB at the point of reversal. That is why it is an almost always instead of an actual always.

Conversely, the more top you hit the CB with, the longer the skid on the OB after contact. The top on the CB will create just a hair of backspin on the OB, causing the skid to last longer. Therefore, if you want to train your eye to see the skid, try shooting medium hard with lots of top.
 
weakfingers said:
There must have been times that balls have skidded on me, but I never like to blame my mistakes on equipment.

Why not, they are as much a part of the game as everything else. Blaming your mistakes on real and tangible aspects of the game are Very important and it shows ones understanding of ball collisions and play conditions. Players like JA think about this during certain shots where others Never do. Its why you see allot of players cleaning whitey off before they break, to minimize another factor that effects play and runouts. When I watched Earl run the million dollar package 4-96, he wiped off EVERY BALL before he broke ea rack, being in Dallas with the Humiditiy he wanted to take this factor out of play+ the newer style GC Pockets at that time were transferring their rubber on to the balls much like a pencil eraser does to paper.
The worst thing players do ALLOT is blame the Wrong thing or Make Up a Story as to why, when its NOT reality, tho this is understandable with learning players.
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Dr. Dave is the man for info

Dr.Dave has a good explanation for skid, or klang as he calls it.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
1. The OB always slides before rolling; it's just increased (so more visible) with skid.

2. Sliding doesn't change the OB's path; its path is changed entirely during contact with the CB (like normal throw, only more).

3. New cloth doesn't have anything to do with it.

pj
chgo
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1.Yes

2. No, a skidding ball curves.

3. No, new cloth has less friction.
 
RRfireblade said:
You can literally see it skid.
:)
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CreeDo said:
Good question.
Sometimes, when people talk about skid, they almost make it sound like the object ball 'curves'. Like it starts out undercutting...then it corrects itself and starts travelling along the intended line. ..
I don't think this happens. I think a skid still sends the ball in a normal straight line, ...
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I have certainly seen an OB cling-to the CB, when the shot is a cut shot.

I have also seen the phenomena exhibited in straight shots (no cut).

Only the first type results is a notable deviation of OB path...logically, IMO

CreeDo said:
...That shot mike missed was certainly missable under pressure.
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Most all can...!
 
Friends.......... Mike should have played for the skid, and cheat the pocket to the left, overcutting the 6-ball.

This ensures you make the shot. Either you pocket the ball into the left portion of the pocket, OR the ball skids and it is pocketed into the right portion of the pocket.

Either way you win. It's a skid-proof method!
 
Me:
2. Sliding doesn't change the OB's path; its path is changed entirely during contact with the CB (like normal throw, only more).
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Tennesseejoe:
No, a skidding ball curves.
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Only if it has masse spin (skid doesn't create masse spin).

Me:
3. New cloth doesn't have anything to do with it.
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Tennesseejoe:
No, new cloth has less friction.
Click to expand...
Less cloth friction doesn't create or increase skid. Skid makes the OB slide a little more (not the other way around), and this can be even more obvious on new cloth, but that isn't an increase in skid.
 
When the cb and the ob collide, they stick together for a tiny distance before they separate and go on their merry ways. This is called CIT (collision induced throw). This time can be lessened with english. When you have dirty equipment, such as chalk marks, oils from your hands, or just plain gunk from equipment never being cleaned, the time they stay in contact with each other will be increased dramatically. This is called "skid". Skid always results in a ball being undercut. You will see the ob skidding foward a little before it starts to actually roll. That is because the balls were basically stuck together for a small amount of time.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Only if it has masse spin (skid doesn't create masse spin).


Less cloth friction doesn't create or increase skid. Skid makes the OB slide a little more (not the other way around), and this can be even more obvious on new cloth, but that isn't an increase in skid.
Click to expand...

Patrick, thanks for the explanation. I understand it better now. You win...
 
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