It looks from the diagram like all three shots are available (inside follow, outside draw, rail-first inside draw). But since Jude says the follow shot doesn't work, and since the rail-first shot is a little too nuts, it's the z-pattern outside-spin draw shot.
OK, Jude, what circus stunt did you pull out of your... clown pants?
Given the distance, the amount of speed and the steep angle, I had no chance of getting this result. If I were closer and more shallow, this might've been possible but from where I was, this would have posed a big risk.
I can't imagine that the draw back isn't possible. It's amazing how straight you can bring the CB back off these shots if you get the speed and spin sweet.
Anyway, here are a couple of other options.
The grey line is just a possible extension...i.e. Play 3 rails.
Okay, first thing I have to say is that you guys are very funny. It's nice to have some light humor, especially when discussing a difficult situation like this.
The fact is, no matter what you do here, you're in a tough bind. Both the 8 and 9 require fairly accurate position. Given the distance, necessary speed and varition in table conditions, it's going to be very difficult to get a consistant result here.
This was my thought process:
Going forward - Top/Left or Left
I'm definitely running into the 9ball. Now, that's not always a bad thing. If the 9-ball was on the rail and it was pretty certain I could clip the top half thinly, I'd probably get a good carom to the other side of the table. I'm also repositioning the 9ball and since it's in a very tough position now, it'll likely be in a better position when I'm done.
I didn't go this way because I felt I couldn't control how I ran into the 9. If the cueball stays around there and the 9ball moves toward the pocket, my chances of winning will rest on a long bank on the 8.
Drawing 1-rail - bottom/right
This is the type of shot that might be very playable on new cloth. There's a sort of circle-draw action you can get on new cloth that seems to defy normal laws of draw. This cloth was fairly old and I didn't think I was going to get that whipping action so this option was out.
Drawing 2-rails (z shot) - bottom/right
Normally, I like this shot A LOT. It's actually one of my personal favorites and works very well on bouncy rails. However, after some consideration, I thought this shot would have been too risky. I simply wasn't going to get down table enough to guarantee great shape on the 8 and I felt I really needed great shape. If the 9ball were near the pocket, I'm definitely going this way since all I have to do is get reasonable but since it wasn't, I thought this was also a risk.
For me, the bottom line was this - the 8 and 9 were in awkward position and there was going to be a risky shot on either the 7 or the 8 to get out. By taking a risk on the 7, I would be leaving the 8 and 9 as-is which meant if I missed, my opponent would be left with a somewhat similar problem. I went rail-first, drew-back and ran out. However, I'm fairly certain had I missed the 7, there's a good chance I may still win the game against anybody. Had I taken the z route, I'm definitely making the 7, possibly missing the 8 and from there, who knows?
Anyway, that was my thought process. Yes, the shot is not easy but it's not as difficult as one might think. The risk of missing is minimized a bit given the layout.
The thing is, I'm not so sure it's a higher percentage play. By that, I mean, I'm looking at when I want to take a chance. The z-shot probably leaves me tough on the 8 which may leave me tough on the 9.
By going rail first, my risk is placed entirely in the first shot.
The thing is, I'm not so sure it's a higher percentage play. By that, I mean, I'm looking at when I want to take a chance. The z-shot probably leaves me tough on the 8 which may leave me tough on the 9.
By going rail first, my risk is placed entirely in the first shot.
True, but I put much more weight on making the ball. If you miss the ball and get perfect on the eight who cares. If you make the ball and fall short or long on the eight you are still at the table and can play safe against a weaker opponent. JMO.
True, but I put much more weight on making the ball. If you miss the ball and get perfect on the eight who cares. If you make the ball and fall short or long on the eight you are still at the table and can play safe against a weaker opponent. JMO.
I agree and there are plenty of scenarios where I agree even more with your argument. It can be such a tough call in 9ball sometimes and I think you know what I'm referring to - there are layouts where you're just stumbling through, making one challenging shot after another. I'm always fascinated to see what players will do to avoid this and when they find it's unavoidable.
IMO you played the right shot.Like you said missing the 7 was an acceptable risk if you don't move the 8 or 9.
I have been using variations of that shot for a little while now since some1 posted it here.Especialy playing 1P you learn to go rail first on balls that are not real close to the rail with acuracey.
Only other way you might have gone is pocket the 7 and play safe if you are to thin on the 8.Speaking for myself I would never bank the 8.
IMO you played the right shot.Like you said missing the 7 was an acceptable risk if you dong move the 7 or 8.
I have been using variations of that shot for a little while now since some1 posted it here.Especialy playing 1P you learn to go rail first on balls that are not real close to the rail with acuracey.
Only other way you might have gone is pocket the 7 and play safe if you are to thin on the 8.Speaking for myself I would never bank the 8.
Jude-
You may have gotten out here but if you ask me, this is the right approach here. Playing it with draw and a LITTLE right should have you come off the lower rail to the LEFT of the pocket, putting you on the right side of the 8 with a natural angle to comeback down table for the 9.
If you use too much right (and the wrong stroke) you could conceivably come off the lower rail to the RIGHT of the pocket. But its not likely. Even if you did, however, the odds of running into the 8 still would more likely than not leave you a decent shot on the 8.
I like this too. You're not going to get straight in on the 8 and you're on the correct side of the 8 where even if you get frozen on the rail you can still get on the 9.
With Jude diagramming it though I expect he did something weird. He probably made the 7-9 bank combo or something :smile:
Either this way or going rail first with low inside. This avoids hitting the 9. But I would go with option 1 unless the 7 was on or very close to the rail. These are the 2 best options for sucess. Trying anything else is futile.
I wouldn't use much right english on this shot. I rely mostly on draw here, but I think it's a matter of personal preference and exactly how much angle you have on the 7. If the cut were any thinner, I would need the right english to help get the CB back.
