How Would You Play This? 2/20/09

Jude Rosenstock said:
That's precisely what I did. I used a lot of left spin to get me around the table and took advantage of the wall of balls near the side-pocket. I was pocketing okay during the match but not great. I wanted to safe here and wondered for a moment if I was going to be forced to shoot. Patrick Johnson's shot is also very very nice simply because it requires little movement and is very easy to execute but I was focused on that wall and getting behind it.
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Nice shot Jude, it was definately the way to go because if you try and hide the CB behind the 8 and sell out even slightly you are toast. The opponent will have a great safety on you. This shot gives you distance if you sell out, giving you better odds of getting back to the table.
 
Black-Balled said:
Gotta be this(?)

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I called this out in post number 12.. Nice to see people pay attention. lol

Honestly, I'm probably shooting at this ball in the side instead of duckin. Well the way it's set up on Judes table anyway. Black didn't set it up the same in this picture.

Depends on the situation I guess. Most likely shootin at it.
 
jsp said:
What about this? Play all CB with draw and right such that you go one rail to hit the 7.

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Hi jsp,

Your idea is interesting but there are a few problems to deal with. That really is a long way to go to hide the cueball while letting the 5ball go wild. You're simply going to have to pound that 5ball to get this result so it's indeterminable where the 5 will land. That means, you HAVE TO stick the cueball behind the 6 or 7 or there's a reasonable chance you're going to sell-out.

EDIT: Not sell-out but allow him to see the 5ball.

There is a reasonable chance you're not going to leave an easy shot so long as you get the cueball to the rail soyou can add that to the success percentage. Hiding the cueball should be viewed as bonus.
 
Nine Ball said:
I called this out in post number 12.. Nice to see people pay attention. lol

Honestly, I'm probably shooting at this ball in the side instead of duckin. Well the way it's set up on Judes table anyway. Black didn't set it up the same in this picture.

Depends on the situation I guess. Most likely shootin at it.
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Wow, you're absolutely right. Had you posted a diagram, I probably would have noticed immediately and I'm sorry for not reading what you posted carefully.
 
Hal said:

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This is more accurate than the shot above. It's pretty much a scratch.
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I agree the scratch might be on, but it can be dealt with. For instance, you can probably hit the 5 more full than I show it, using some right spin to throw it around the 8 (the slow speed of the shot makes this even more practical):

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Maybe it isn't even the right shot here, but I wanted to show this kind of simple safety concept that many players overlook. It comes up often, especially with few balls on the table and not much other cover.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I agree the scratch might be on, but it can be dealt with. For instance, you can probably hit the 5 more full than I show it, using some right spin to throw it around the 8:

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Maybe it isn't even the right shot here, but I wanted to show this kind of simple safety concept that many players overlook. It comes up often, especially with few balls on the table and not much other cover.

pj
chgo
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Well, along the same line of thought, you can also just follow to the right side of the corner pocket. Same goal accomplished. Your safety might need a little on-site tinkering but it's definitely on.
 
Bank the 5 into the 6? a little top on the cue ball to leave yourself a shot at the 5? Unless you're insistent on playing safe...then I'd go with the overall shot everyone else is saying.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
We're playing 9ball. I missed position horribly for the side pocket and left myself this scenario. The 8ball is covering enough of the 5ball that I cannot bank the ball in the lower right pocket and I'm not comfortable AT ALL about cutting the 5 into the upper side-pocket. I opted to play safe. Assuming you're not going to take the thin cut, how would you play safe?


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If you want to be aggressive and you can get a full ball hit on the 5, you can bank it cross corner from that position. Look at Banking With the Beard, page 119.

With the little angle that you have with a full ball hit, using low left on the cue ball ( ~7:30) and medium speed, you can get enough throw and transfer to to OB to make the bank.

Not saying this is the smartest thing to do, but it can be made.

I tried it five time this afternoon. Made three and the two I missed, I missed long.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
This isn't what I played but I like this shot a lot. The simplicity of it gives it high marks since you're pretty much guaranteed to leave little even if you fail to hide the cueball.
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hitting the 5 so it ends up where it does in the picture wouldn't let the cue ball follow that path
 

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Use 3 tips of right english, one of bottom, and speed to just bank the 5 back to the rail. CB will follow a slightly curved path to the first rail. This speed should turn the CB back to the same rail, allowing you to utilize the wall of balls on the right side of the table. A slow speed with lots of right english will turn the 5 ball past all the other balls. Might have to aim the 5 ball a little thicker because of the slow speed used.

Russ
 
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This was the first shot I thought of also, but haven't had a chance to get to a table. Wonder if it could maybe throw too close to the corner pocket, though. Maybe play it off the long rail to the center of the short rail?
 
Russ Chewning said:

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Use 3 tips of right english, one of bottom, and speed to just bank the 5 back to the rail. CB will follow a slightly curved path to the first rail. This speed should turn the CB back to the same rail, allowing you to utilize the wall of balls on the right side of the table. A slow speed with lots of right english will turn the 5 ball past all the other balls. Might have to aim the 5 ball a little thicker because of the slow speed used.

Russ
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I couldn't make this speed work for both balls - I had to leave the cue ball near the short rail in the shadow of the 8. If I brought the cue ball back to the long rail the 5 would bounce out from behind the blocking balls.

pj
chgo
 
Okay so I tried all the shots mentioned and the best methods for me were to cut it in or shoot the PJ safe.

I tried what Jude said he did and I cant get the ball speeds anywhere near what they need to be. Banking the 5 only a short distance and traveling the cue ball nearly triple that distance off of two rails killing speed.

I shot the cut 5 times and made it four times.
I shot the PJ safe and at least partially hooked the OB all five times. One was much better and was a tough hit. One left a one rail kick that might get me hooked.

I shot Jude and Blackballs shot and left the five open each time. Perhaps the table wasnt fast enough but to stop the 5 ball on the bottom side of the table I couldnt hit the cueball hard enough.

I also shot the 5 trying to get it below or near the 9 ball and dragging the cueball back over to the same bottom side. Only got a hook 1 out of five.

Its surprisingly not hard to leave the cueball in the redzone and lay it behind the nine. 4-5 shot left a hook and the other left very little.

thanks Jude for the shot .. I really like seeing everyones opinions and then trying them.
 
If you don't shoot here you don't like to win. Unless i'm giving up the 5 out on a very tight table (which won't happen anytime soon), I gotta shoot.
 
I like Russ's solution, and JSP's (more or less the same).
I also like Hal's solution of parking the CB on the headrail and banking the 5 to the siderail. It has maybe less chance of hooking the guy, but near 0 chance of leaving him a real shot. It's hard to screw up.

Normally I'm shooting this ball. Of course I say that with Wei glasses, if I'm down in front of it I might say "holy crap that's thin". But it looks like a shot I make often and the CB will not travel wildly far. I can't tell from the bird's eye view if I'm beating the scratch with draw or follow. The more I stare at it, the more it looks like follow.

Solutions I don't like:
PJ's - as Hal mentioned, this looks like it'd have to go wider than diagrammed, even if you're using a lot of sidespin to throw the 5. Getting it to roll almost straight forward like that looks like it'd need a very fat hit. On the other hand, you only need the 5 to barely clear the opposite side of the 8, it doesn't have to be banked as wide as diagrammed to get the same result. So maybe it's ok. Seems like it can be screwed up though, given the speed control, sidespin, and slight risk of scratch.

Cuetable's - If you look at the circles he drew as final resting places... you'll see he actually left a pretty decent shot :P But ignoring that for a second... you don't necessarily get it just by keeping in the red zone, for that to happen the CB has to hit the 9 just so and end up within a foot or so of the side rail. But if you bank short or wide and don't touch the 9, then the 5 bounces off the side rail and comes out enough to possibly be shootable, especially in the upper part of that red zone. I can easily see the 5 on this shot ending up near the footspot for example.
 
side pocket low right come off short rail and be perfect on 6..[dont anybody play offense anymore] even if you miss you have a good chance of a leave
 
The side pocket shot is a little deceiving on the layout. I haven't been able to do the table yet but I'll try and explain what I would've done.
I would've shot full into the 5 just missing the 8 with a firm follow and a tip of left. It brings the cb between the 6 and 9. The five goes 2 rails and falls short of the long rail. While shooting this I did make the 5 2 rails in the corner. But I'm sure on those shots I prob had more angle then the original shot. But the shot was very consistent. Rarely did I leave an open shot on the 5 and when I did it was a shot most wouldn't like.
 
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