How Would You Play This? 2/20/2014

I think I see jude's point, and I like it.

You can hit with a lil draw, medium soft, and beat the scratch (usually),
and bounce out enough for a good cut on the 9 (usually).
But it's kind of delicate.

Or you can let it rip with a full, good draw stroke, knowing you won't be catching
the nipple or scratching, and knowing you won't ever end up thin on the 9...
there's a huge position window once you come up off the bottom rail enough.
From about a half-diamond off that rail, to about 4 diamonds off, you're easy on the 9.

If I felt like there's even a 10% chance of catching the nipple drawing it,
I'm with csykes... make it, bounce out to center table or a bit past.
Trade that 100% shot on the 9, for a 95% shot with zero chance of scratch.
 
Why worry about it? High left, or high right. Either way if the cloth is fairly new, there's no scratch. Put the cb in the middle of the table and just make the nine. Be confident in your shots, quit over thinking things.
 
CreeDo said:
I think I see jude's point, and I like it.

You can hit with a lil draw, medium soft, and beat the scratch (usually),
and bounce out enough for a good cut on the 9 (usually).
But it's kind of delicate.

Or you can let it rip with a full, good draw stroke, knowing you won't be catching
the nipple or scratching, and knowing you won't ever end up thin on the 9...
there's a huge position window once you come up off the bottom rail enough.
From about a half-diamond off that rail, to about 4 diamonds off, you're easy on the 9.

If I felt like there's even a 10% chance of catching the nipple drawing it,
I'm with csykes... make it, bounce out to center table or a bit past.
Trade that 100% shot on the 9, for a 95% shot with zero chance of scratch.
Click to expand...

Thanks and yes, that's pretty much my point. I just know I've found myself staring at the side pocket knowing the stun-angle is a scratch and wondering what my options were. Unfortunately, I don't get a world of time to compete anymore but if there's one thing I always notice when I do compete, it's that the better players always seem to handle situations like these better than most. Perhaps this diagram is too dubious or perhaps other options seem too attractive but I'm sure there will be a day when other options look like crap and maybe, someone who saw this thread will remember that drawing 2 rails is actually a good way to go.
 
If you are gambling and want to extend your action....just play it off of the point of the side pocket...back out for a straight in 9...whew!!! I almost scratched!! ..:wink:

You mention that the cloth was new....If the cloth has slide the draw may not take the draw like you want and you may scratch in the side ...however...IF the cloth is worn enough to avoid the scratch and the rails are fast enough for the two/three rail draw...that seems like a safe route for the win....

Back to the gambling and/or knowing your opponent.....corner pocket size is a factor......miss the draw (which is likely due to your focus being distracted by avoiding the side pocket) and you sell out a probable easy two ball out......the bank has a chance for the win...and also a miss on the bank will likely leave a long rail bank for your opponent....getting "lucky" is an art.....:wink:
 
I just set this up on my table and looked at the draw shot on the 8 ball. It's probably doable with new cloth, but don't be fooled by the diagram. There isn't a lot of room for the cue ball to grab before the side pocket comes into play.

It was a very simple out for me to roll the cue ball with no spin into the 8 ball, pot it in the corner, and come across the table for an easy 9 ball in the lower corner. Few calories expended and no guessing on how much stroke and spin I need on the cue ball.

I played both draw shots (inside and outside) and found the low outside gave me better position after going three rails under the 9 ball. The low inside was harder to control and wanted to float down to the short rail as it killed on the side rail. Center draw sent the cue ball close to the side pocket off of the tit.

Best,
Mike
 
How would I play this shot? If I made the 8 and somehow managed not to scratch I would then end up with the cue ball frozen to the 9:rotflmao1:
 
I set this up and shot it some. I can assure all you ball spinners that if you shoot this with exact center ball medium stroke the cue ball will end up 2/3 of the way across the table, below the opposite side pocket nearly straight in on the 9. Every time.

Now it's off to Reno for me. Plane leaves at 1

JC
 
Mikjary said:
I just set this up on my table and looked at the draw shot on the 8 ball. It's probably doable with new cloth, but don't be fooled by the diagram. There isn't a lot of room for the cue ball to grab before the side pocket comes into play.

It was a very simple out for me to roll the cue ball with no spin into the 8 ball, pot it in the corner, and come across the table for an easy 9 ball in the lower corner. Few calories expended and no guessing on how much stroke and spin I need on the cue ball.

I played both draw shots (inside and outside) and found the low outside gave me better position after going three rails under the 9 ball. The low inside was harder to control and wanted to float down to the short rail as it killed on the side rail. Center draw sent the cue ball close to the side pocket off of the tit.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

If you're scared of scratching while drawing the cue ball, then you're over hitting the cue ball. Should be able to soft draw straight along the rail to play the 9 in the bottom left.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
If you're scared of scratching while drawing the cue ball, then you're over hitting the cue ball. Should be able to soft draw straight along the rail to play the 9 in the bottom left.
Click to expand...

You don't need draw. Center ball does the trick. The cue ball will pick up natural clockwise spin from hitting the 8 ball just enough to send it across the table below the opposite side pocket eliminating that scratch possibility.

In reality though, a touch of inside english makes that pocket much friendlier to accept the 8 ball and is probably worth the shape on the 9 slightly up table.

JC

I'm leaving now for real!
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
If you're scared of scratching while drawing the cue ball, then you're over hitting the cue ball. Should be able to soft draw straight along the rail to play the 9 in the bottom left.
Click to expand...

With newer cloth, you can easily draw down to the 9 ball. As the cloth ages, your angle changes where you must play off of the rail. My table cloth is showing some wear and while it's not new, it still has a few miles left on it. I don't over hit the cue ball when it's next to the side pocket, "Hits 'em Hard. Did you read the part where I said I drew down under the 9 ball and back out three more rails?

Best,
Mike
 
I finally got to a table today and when I set it up like the diagram it was nothing like I thought and would shoot it with just a little left to come out to the middle of the table.
 
I also shot this a number of times. I must be setting it up wrong as there wasn't anything difficult or tricky to it. Just pocket the 8-ball. A little left helps, but not necessary.

-td
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Thanks and yes, that's pretty much my point. I just know I've found myself staring at the side pocket knowing the stun-angle is a scratch and wondering what my options were. Unfortunately, I don't get a world of time to compete anymore but if there's one thing I always notice when I do compete, it's that the better players always seem to handle situations like these better than most. Perhaps this diagram is too dubious or perhaps other options seem too attractive but I'm sure there will be a day when other options look like crap and maybe, someone who saw this thread will remember that drawing 2 rails is actually a good way to go.
Click to expand...

It's funny, it came up in a game last saturday and I used it. I was gonna do the 1 rail
but remembered this thread want let 'er rip. Worked flawlessly.
 
Mikjary said:
With newer cloth, you can easily draw down to the 9 ball. As the cloth ages, your angle changes where you must play off of the rail. My table cloth is showing some wear and while it's not new, it still has a few miles left on it. I don't over hit the cue ball when it's next to the side pocket, "Hits 'em Hard. Did you read the part where I said I drew down under the 9 ball and back out three more rails?

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Maybe the confusion is that you are drAwing 'down' to the head of the table?
 
Close to center ball, bounce the cue ball off the side pocket titty uptable on 8 ball side, comes back 45 degree angle right in the triangle.
 
Mikjary said:
With newer cloth, you can easily draw down to the 9 ball. As the cloth ages, your angle changes where you must play off of the rail. My table cloth is showing some wear and while it's not new, it still has a few miles left on it. I don't over hit the cue ball when it's next to the side pocket, "Hits 'em Hard. Did you read the part where I said I drew down under the 9 ball and back out three more rails?

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Did you fail to read the first part you wrote that I quoted? A nice, smooth stroke, enough to make the cue ball grab is all you need. Nothing more. And on older slower cloth, the draw shot should be easier to do.
 
cleary said:
I feel like if you try to do too much you're going to lose the game. Just make the 8 and the 9ball is pocketable from nearly anywhere on the table.

I'm trying to see the problem. Long as you make the 8 and avoid the scratch, I feel like it's impossible to end up in a bad place. The 9 is a borderline hanger.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.

This seems like trying anything else is a recipe for disaster. But... it would be hard to end up in a BAD spot in the 9. Unless you're frozen to it.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
Did you fail to read the first part you wrote that I quoted? A nice, smooth stroke, enough to make the cue ball grab is all you need. Nothing more. And on older slower cloth, the draw shot should be easier to do.
Click to expand...

Nope. I would still roll the cue ball on the 8 and 9 and play the natural angles with no spin. Why make it any harder? A nice, smooth stroke doesn't replace good position play. BTW, old Simonis cloth doesn't grab better as it ages.

Drawing the cue ball down to the short side of the 9 ball is iffy at best. You're also coming across the position zone instead of towards the ball which narrows your chances of getting a good shot at the money ball. Shoot too hard or too soft and you don't get out.

Best,
Mike
 
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