How Would You Play This? 4/1/10

[dabarbr]

Im talking about what I said in the previous post. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2351693&postcount=59
Bumping the 3 is a likely shot from the opponent from the safe I said. The response is pocketing his 1 in the side. Leaves bih on the 6 to break out the cluster for the opponent, and either way he tries it, he risks getting hooked on the 8 because of going into the cluster from a bad line. If he gets the breakout fine, but you have given yourself a better chance to win than going for the breakout off of the 12 which is IMO too dangerous.
Like you said, the wei table makes things look easier, like breaking the cluster by drawing off of the 12 into 2 opponent object balls that can hook you from the 8 anyway.
The 8 should have been moved earlier in the rack, but since it wasnt, a smart play will win more games than attempting hero shots that IF either part is missed are guaranteed sell outs.
Chuck

I don't think many good players will attempt to break them out with the six after you pocket the one ball.

Most will continue to maneuver the three and five balls until they are ready for the run. This is why I say you might get back up to the table more that once but with very little hope of winning this game.

 

[RiverCity]

I don't think many good players will attempt to break them out with the six after you pocket the one ball.

Most will continue to maneuver the three and five balls until they are ready for the run. This is why I say you might get back up to the table more that once but with very little hope of winning this game.

At this point in the rack, its down to who is going to make the first mistake. The rack has to be evaluated shot by shot to know what is the next move. My whole point with this, is that there are other options than taking risks that will almost certainly result in loss of game if you miss the low percentage shot that you are attempting. Even if you feel you are delaying the inevitable, play the smart shot and hope your opponent makes the first mistake.
Chuck

 

[Maniac]

play the smart shot and hope your opponent makes the first mistake.
Chuck

Ah yes, one of the most common pieces of advice ever given to a poolplayer. Usually, it's about all you CAN do.

Maniac

 

[cuetechasaurus]

At this point in the rack, its down to who is going to make the first mistake. The rack has to be evaluated shot by shot to know what is the next move. My whole point with this, is that there are other options than taking risks that will almost certainly result in loss of game if you miss the low percentage shot that you are attempting. Even if you feel you are delaying the inevitable, play the smart shot and hope your opponent makes the first mistake.
Chuck

You've got me so confused I don't even know what to say. You mentioned pocketing the 12 and leaving the cueball on the end rail, near the middle diamond. You asked me what someone would do in response to that shot. I said they could just roll up on the 3, leaving you frozen. Even if you pocket the 1 ball, all they have to do is keep nudging those balls, until the 8 ball is free and the table is runnable.

 

[12310bch]

Dutch doubles eight -ball anyone? Thank goodness that I don't play pool with my wife. I could see this kind of dialogue going on 24/7.:rotflmao1:

 

[RiverCity]

You've got me so confused I don't even know what to say. You mentioned pocketing the 12 and leaving the cueball on the end rail, near the middle diamond. You asked me what someone would do in response to that shot. I said they could just roll up on the 3, leaving you frozen. Even if you pocket the 1 ball, all they have to do is keep nudging those balls, until the 8 ball is free and the table is runnable.

Its ok, Chuck Norris would have gotten out, Chuck Norris ALWAYS gets out. :thumbup:
Chuck

 

[Jimmy M.]

At this point in the rack, its down to who is going to make the first mistake. The rack has to be evaluated shot by shot to know what is the next move. My whole point with this, is that there are other options than taking risks that will almost certainly result in loss of game if you miss the low percentage shot that you are attempting. Even if you feel you are delaying the inevitable, play the smart shot and hope your opponent makes the first mistake.
Chuck

It might be down to who makes the first mistake but, in this case, you are at such a disadvantage that, unless you're just playing someone who can't play a lick, you're almost certain to be the one to make it.

I can see the rationale behind playing safe on the 12 somehow and trying to prolong the game and, hopefully, try to squeeze out a win but, again, you're at such a disadvantage in doing so that your odds are certainly no better than they are at firing in the cross bank and breaking out the 8.

I'd have to be playing someone who plays pretty bad to consider passing the table back to them knowing that I'm at such a tactical disadvantage ... like someone who plays at least as bad as I do.

 

[Luxury]

When someone tells you that you should have gone for the cross bank break-out instead of putting the 12 in front of the pocket or some other shot that people say you should have shot then mark up the balls and give him 20 tries being stripes where he has to go for his break out shot and then you get 20 tries playing the shot you think is best and play out the games and see who wins the most.

Should be the easiest $20 bucks ever.

Had to edit. Accidentally said solids instead of stripes. My point is basically the bet would have to be Jude would have to shoot the cross bank break out every game and see how many times he would win. Then Joey A would play 20 games as stripes by playing the stripe in front of the pocket which I think would win more games.

 

[Jimmy M.]

When someone tells you that you should have gone for the cross bank break-out instead of putting the 12 in front of the pocket or some other shot that people say you should have shot then mark up the balls and give him 20 tries being solids where he has to go for his break out shot and then you get 20 tries playing the shot you think is best and play out the games and see who wins the most.

Should be the easiest $20 bucks ever.

Why does the person with solids have to go for the break-out? You are assuming that they're going to do something stupid to get the 8 out of there and try to run out on their first inning. No one who can play even a little bit is going to do that. All they have to do is dink around and keep you safe, which isn't tough to do when they have 4 balls on the table and you have 1, until the balls are open and they can run out. You like putting the 12 in front of the pocket? Heck, from there they can pocket your 12, giving you ball in hand, and you're still at a disadvantage.

The truth is, given 20 tries, you aren't going to win many of those games from there regardless of whether you go for the shot or play safe. It's a low percentage shot going for it, and you're probably going to get out-moved if you play safe. Knowing that I'm at a disadvantage either way, I'd rather take an offensive opportunity if one exists.

Maybe there's a great safe there to be played. I'm not discounting that possibility but, if there is, I'm missing it.

 

[Aaron_S]

Im talking about what I said in the previous post. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2351693&postcount=59
Bumping the 3 is a likely shot from the opponent from the safe I said. The response is pocketing his 1 in the side. Leaves bih on the 6 to break out the cluster for the opponent, and either way he tries it, he risks getting hooked on the 8 because of going into the cluster from a bad line. If he gets the breakout fine, but you have given yourself a better chance to win than going for the breakout off of the 12 which is IMO too dangerous.
Like you said, the wei table makes things look easier, like breaking the cluster by drawing off of the 12 into 2 opponent object balls that can hook you from the 8 anyway.
The 8 should have been moved earlier in the rack, but since it wasnt, a smart play will win more games than attempting hero shots that IF either part is missed are guaranteed sell outs.
Chuck

I understand what you're saying, Chuck, but I agree with the others who say that your shot will put you in a bad spot. When your opp rolls onto the 3, they can easily nudge the 5 out a bit at the same time, whether by cutting the 3 into the 5 slightly or by hitting the 3 into the rail and then into the 5, depending on where exactly you leave whitey on the foot rail. Either way, they can put you snug behind the 3, and the 5 only has to move out a half-inch or so to be clear for either corner pocket. If you give up bih after that, they won't have to shoot the 6, they can just pocket the 5 and bump either the 8 or the 3 enough to free the 3 ball, and they'll have the 6-ball as insurance in case they don't fall nicely on the 3-ball after the bump.

I don't necessarily disagree with playing safe here, but I think you want to leave the 12-ball on the table if you do, perhaps somewhere on the long rail or very near the bottom pocket to block shots into that hole. I think whatever you do here (aside from running out) is going to eventually have you kicking at the 8-ball unless your opponent makes a serious error. Your opp can just bunt balls around until he has an opportunity to put you in that spot, and once he does it's pretty much curtains.

Aaron

 

[GMAC]

Make a bigger mess

I would slow kick the 12 from behind into the cluster. If you kick it real good and place it nice in the cluster his break out becomes very difficult. If he plays safe you can easily slow kick at the 12 off the bottom rail or pocket one of his open balls. In the end you are creating more innings for yoursefl and thats all you can do in this situation. The more innings the bigger chance your opponent can make a fatal error.

 

[Olive]

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ADkp3CaHQ3...gXof3gYfK3kKOe3kWyN3kakE3kFQX3kWMo2kbfW2kUnj@

I've drawn in 2 shots.

1. pocket your object ball and bring the cue back back into a position which allows you to get approx. 1/2 ball hit on the 8.

2. attempt to x-bank the 8 into the middle pocket. you will be getting a lot of throw from that angle if you play the shot right, which means the 8 ball will not move your opponents cluster. if you miss (80%? of times?) you will leave a very difficult long pot and no guaranteed run out because of the cluster & your opponent is playing from off the cushion. the 8 ball will finish in a favorable position.

-o

PS.. how to post the qtable strait to the reply??

 

[Luxury]

Why does the person with solids have to go for the break-out? You are assuming that they're going to do something stupid to get the 8 out of there and try to run out on their first inning. No one who can play even a little bit is going to do that. All they have to do is dink around and keep you safe, which isn't tough to do when they have 4 balls on the table and you have 1, until the balls are open and they can run out. You like putting the 12 in front of the pocket? Heck, from there they can pocket your 12, giving you ball in hand, and you're still at a disadvantage.

The truth is, given 20 tries, you aren't going to win many of those games from there regardless of whether you go for the shot or play safe. It's a low percentage shot going for it, and you're probably going to get out-moved if you play safe. Knowing that I'm at a disadvantage either way, I'd rather take an offensive opportunity if one exists.

Maybe there's a great safe there to be played. I'm not discounting that possibility but, if there is, I'm missing it.

Dude I was up late and accidentally wrote solids instead of stripes. Please reread my edit. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Philthepockets]

Not sure if I even like this option, letting my opponent back at the table but you could bank his 1 into the cluster making for a tougher break out.

 

[fan-tum]

This is a great thread!! I prefer ultra-caution, a tactic which usually blows up in my face. But my shotmaking is only b- at best, so I feel compelled to do something, giving up bih if necessary, if I think it improves my chances. So-how about this---c.b. lightly into the 2 solids-nudging the 8 near the side pocket, hopefully leaving the 2 solids still unmakeable.

 

[Underclocked]

Is this a one-game match or a longer race to X? If it is fairly early in the longer race, I'm going to power draw into the cluster and break out the 8. I may wind up with a good shot, or hooked, or even make the eight. If I succeed with the shot, the opponent is not only going to lose that game... he's going to remember how I "easily" fired my way out of a touch situation and it will let a bit of air out of his tires.

If I don't succeed, he'll just think I'm nutz. :grin-square:

 

[12310bch]

man-up-- draw the sucker

Is this a one-game match or a longer race to X? If it is fairly early in the longer race, I'm going to power draw into the cluster and break out the 8. I may wind up with a good shot, or hooked, or even make the eight. If I succeed with the shot, the opponent is not only going to lose that game... he's going to remember how I "easily" fired my way out of a touch situation and it will let a bit of air out of his tires.

If I don't succeed, he'll just think I'm nutz. :grin-square:

This is the shot!!!!!!:clapping:

 

[Maniac]

So-how about this---c.b. lightly into the 2 solids-nudging the 8 near the side pocket, hopefully leaving the 2 solids still unmakeable.

That's a great shot IF you're playing ME. But, if you're playing all the World Champions we have on this forum, you're gonna lose this game :smilewinkgrin:

Maniac