How Would You Play This? Keeping Things Routine

Cuebacca said:
I will give it a try. For my skill set, I am pretty sure that I favor the shot I described. I may be a little weird in that I love hitting these shots, where you hit it a little off-speed (if that's the right term), soft but with a lot of spin. That hit seems to allow you to hit fuller on the 8, such that the shot is on the favorable side of the grey area because the tangent line is closer to parallel with the long rail.

The X factor comes up I guess when the pockets are super tight and I'm not dialed into the amount of throw in the balls. On the other hand, if I can take it as fact that I'll make the shot, I think I'll do better on unfamiliar equipment going the route I picked because I don't have to worry about those scratches and speed so much.

All that said, I'll go ahead and hit a few going two rails. Good to work on my weaknesses. :)
Click to expand...

Not sure that there is any speed problem going two rails. You can hit it twice as hard as you mean to, catch two extra rails, and still have an easy shot on the 9, whereas you hit the draw/loads of outside english shot just a "little" bad, and you may be left with no shot at all.

You can avoid the scratch by simply picking a second rail contact point to aim for, that's all. Lots of people will scratch on this shot just because they don't bother to aim for a contact point on the second rail.

Plus, with one shot, you are staying closer to center ball, and with the other you are getting out towards "miscue land". In almost ALL cases, staying closer to center ball is better than going heavy on the spin, when aiming for the same position spot.

Good luck on working the new shot into your game, man..

Russ
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Our 9-ball league recently concluded play-offs and I saw a B level player fail to get out from here. I was mildly shocked at the moment but later realized many players will fall into their routines and sometimes their routines are not consistent with the right shot. The B-player attempted a route that they were comfortable shooting unfortunately, it was the wrong route and they ended up giving back the table.

I don't expect it to take long for someone to post the correct shot here since there are so many good players on azb but I figured it'd be a good lesson for anyone who has been in this not-so-unusual situation and wanted to know a way to keep it routine.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
Stun outside, to and through the second diamond. Absolutely standard, bread and butter shot (that's what Jerry Brieseth calls it).

Fred
 
I like how you describe your thought process in determining which way to go.
Click to expand...

Going the draw route I forgot to consider the possible scratch you pointed out (in the lower left corner if you get a little to steep and too long on the 9). I would have chosen the Z pattern anyway, but I hope I would have thought of that while considering options at a real table.

pj
chgo
 
Russ Chewning said:
Not sure that there is any speed problem going two rails. You can hit it twice as hard as you mean to, catch two extra rails, and still have an easy shot on the 9, whereas you hit the draw/loads of outside english shot just a "little" bad, and you may be left with no shot at all.

You can avoid the scratch by simply picking a second rail contact point to aim for, that's all. Lots of people will scratch on this shot just because they don't bother to aim for a contact point on the second rail.

Plus, with one shot, you are staying closer to center ball, and with the other you are getting out towards "miscue land". In almost ALL cases, staying closer to center ball is better than going heavy on the spin, when aiming for the same position spot.

Good luck on working the new shot into your game, man..

Russ
Click to expand...


These are all EXCELLENT points and Cornerman's "Bread & Butter" description is great!
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Going the draw route I forgot to consider the possible scratch you pointed out (in the lower left corner if you get a little to steep and too long on the 9). I would have chosen the Z pattern anyway, but I hope I would have thought of that while considering options at a real table.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Actually, you can scratch in the bottom side-pocket, too. I mean, it doesn't look possible and I didn't think it was when I took a similar shot and scratched against Joe Korsiak in a tournament out in Connecticut with the score at 4-4. Yeah, I never caught up to him after that.
 
Russ Chewning said:
Not sure that there is any speed problem going two rails. You can hit it twice as hard as you mean to, catch two extra rails, and still have an easy shot on the 9, whereas you hit the draw/loads of outside english shot just a "little" bad, and you may be left with no shot at all.

You can avoid the scratch by simply picking a second rail contact point to aim for, that's all. Lots of people will scratch on this shot just because they don't bother to aim for a contact point on the second rail.

Plus, with one shot, you are staying closer to center ball, and with the other you are getting out towards "miscue land". In almost ALL cases, staying closer to center ball is better than going heavy on the spin, when aiming for the same position spot.

Good luck on working the new shot into your game, man..

Russ
Click to expand...

Thanks, Russ. I'm OK with the two-rail shot, but just seeing how many knowledgeable posters prefer it made me realize I should practice it a little and find out why it doesn't strike me as a better path.

Regarding the speed, what I mean is that coming up way short is less of a problem with the 1-rail route. It would leave a tough cut on the 9, but that's better than a bank, or worse, that could be left from coming up short going two rails.

A pro may not come up way short, but keep in mind I could be rated as low as a C player by some people's standards (from what I've read on here), although higher depending on the region. I think on any given shot (including when using extreme english) I'm much more likely to blow my speed than I am to miscue.

As far as too much speed, even if I choose the angle for the two rail shot, I may end up not hitting my target, and worst case scenario I could end up on that scratch track, and also overcook the shot. Worst case scenario going one rail is probably the miscue, like you said, but less likely for me I think.

All of that said, I might just have to try both of them a handful of times tonight or tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for your insight and encouragement. :)
 
Cuebacca said:
Thanks, Russ. I'm OK with the two-rail shot, but just seeing how many knowledgeable posters prefer it made me realize I should practice it a little and find out why it doesn't strike me as a better path.

Regarding the speed, what I mean is that coming up way short is less of a problem with the 1-rail route. It would leave a tough cut on the 9, but that's better than a bank that could be left from coming up short going two rails.

A pro may not come up way short, but keep in mind I could be rated as low as a C player by some people's standards (from what I've read on here), although higher depending on the region. I think on any given shot (including when using extreme english) I'm much more likely to blow my speed than I am to miscue.

As far as too much speed, even if I choose the angle for the two rail shot, I may end up not hitting my target, and worst case scenario I could end up on that scratch track, and also overcook the shot. Worst case scenario going one rail is probably the miscue, like you said, but less likely for me I think.

All of that said, I might just have to try both of them a handful of times tonight or tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for your insight and encouragement. :)
Click to expand...


When you do get the chance to play with this shot, you're going to find it can change quickly depending on the angle and depending on the distance. Most of the time, you just use a little right and hit it firm. When there's a lot of angle, sometimes only right is needed. If the ball is near the pocket, you may need to use a little draw. If the ball is far from the pocket, you might be able to just use center. It's not long before you just get a feel for what you need to use.
 
Cuebacca said:
Go one rail to the short side of the 9. Kidding!

I don't know if this is considered correct, but I like hitting this low and with a ton of right letting the english take off the rail sending the cue ball up table. My reason is that it takes the dangers out of the two rail (long/long) approach. The dangers being coming up short and leaving a tough cut on the 9, or going too far and scratching in the upper right pocket.
Click to expand...

I also agree with this methodology, especially if it is a bar table, because the rails on bar tables are not always real consistent and the pockets are real big when it comes to the possiblity of scratching two rails in the opposite corner pocket.

-don
 
I wanted to make one final comment on this. My point in posting this shot was to show a scenario where there were multiple right answers. The fact is, I'm 100% certain everyone who posted here can get out using their own method. However, I really wanted to display the strength of the z-pattern because it's not a route many intermediate players see at first. I sorta started playing them by accident and when I recognized how better players used them, I started playing them deliberately. The route in this scenario (and many similar scenarios) avoids some pitfalls and allows you to keep things simple. If anything, it's also a position route that can be necessary (see below) where the route you're familiar with might be blocked.

CueTable Help

 
Russ Chewning said:
Not sure that there is any speed problem going two rails. You can hit it twice as hard as you mean to, catch two extra rails, and still have an easy shot on the 9, whereas you hit the draw/loads of outside english shot just a "little" bad, and you may be left with no shot at all.

You can avoid the scratch by simply picking a second rail contact point to aim for, that's all. Lots of people will scratch on this shot just because they don't bother to aim for a contact point on the second rail.

Plus, with one shot, you are staying closer to center ball, and with the other you are getting out towards "miscue land". In almost ALL cases, staying closer to center ball is better than going heavy on the spin, when aiming for the same position spot.

Good luck on working the new shot into your game, man..

Russ
Click to expand...

Great points Russ, but if this is a league player on a table that is only seven feet long you really would not need to load it up too much to get the cue ball to come up table off the rail and it almost totally eliminates the scratch and the possiblity of coming up short and not having even a difficult cut. Just more food for thought. Some say tomaaato, some say tomato.

-don
 
Thecoats,

I understand what yer saying.. What I was trying to say tho, is that if you become comfortable with the technically "right" way of playing this shot, (i.e., the way 95% of pros play it) then you are prepared for success on the overwhelming majority of situations and tables you might find yourself in/on.

The pros do not shoot it this way because they have much greater skillz than us mere mortals.. They shoot it this way because it is physically easier to consistently repeat this position play than by using max english. Being able to consistently repeat something is the key to great pool.

Using max english, even a pro would be challenged to consistently repeat the results of any one particular shot, on any table.

Russ
 
As the shot is diagrammed the cut on the 8 seems to me to be too thin to comfortably draw the cueball one cushion up past the side pocket for shape on the 9. From this angle on the 8 the "Z" shot is automatic, IMO. Hit correctly, the cueball will lengthen out off the second cushion and leave a very simple, perhaps even straight in, shot on the 9.
 
You really dont need to hit the cue ball hard, Id use low with a touch of right, with the 9 ball so close to the pocket, I wouldnt risk going across and back.. you just basicaly need on the "good side" of the 9 youd be surprised at the speed you can use to get a winning shot on the 9.. I shoot these shots daily.. and always play them as described unless there are interfearing balls..

CueTable Help

 
Another way to play it, although maybe not the right shot, would be to use top left with a good hit and go directly across to the opposite rail and have the english take off that rail to send you down towards the 9. Kind of difficult to describe and I don't know how to use the Wei table very well.

Just trying to bring another idea to the table. I realize it's best to keep it as simple as possible but I could see this being an option if you have some obstructing balls in the other routes.
 
I Agree

SPINDOKTOR said:
You really dont need to hit the cue ball hard, Id use low with a touch of right, with the 9 ball so close to the pocket, I wouldnt risk going across and back.. you just basicaly need on the "good side" of the 9 youd be surprised at the speed you can use to get a winning shot on the 9.. I shoot these shots daily.. and always play them as described unless there are interfearing balls..

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

I agree with everyone that the Z shot is "the right shot", but going one rail to get the right angle for the nine is pretty routine for a good player. Also, it eliminates the possibility ( however rare ) of scratching.
 
D_Lewis said:
I would probably try and play two rails, possibly three if it contacted the head rail. (not sure what a B player is, but maybe I am one!) ha

How did HE play it?
Click to expand...


i think two rails is the right shot here. as danny dillaberto would call it. The Z stroke
 
poolstar31 said:
I agree with everyone that the Z shot is "the right shot", but going one rail to get the right angle for the nine is pretty routine for a good player. Also, it eliminates the possibility ( however rare ) of scratching.
Click to expand...


trying to draw the ball back is the lower percentage way to get shape. way too easy to make a mistake doing it
 
it is more of a stun - spin back shot than a draw. A good player can get out from there all day.:D
 
An interesting interpretation of the shot can be seen on propoolvideo.com in the Duell-Hatch match at about 8:15 into the match.

The difference is the interfering balls which Corey bypasses by hitting the cueball with hard inside left english which carries off the second rail to get shape on the ball on the head rail.

I've already used this shot twice in competition after seeing the video.

Squirrelly looking, but it works. LOL

Stones
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top