Humility and Modesty in the Billiards Industry

[manwon]

Humility and Modesty are great signs of character but it is really amazing that so many people can't see the forest through the tree's concerning this subject. Lately there have been many threads regarding this very subject, post's about cue makers calling themselves Master Craftsmen and others who just can't stand the fact that others in the same segment of the industry as them are making a name for themselves.

I find all of this conflict very distasteful, I mean that I just don't understand how some people apparently just can't see how they look when they are engaged in a conversation on a topic on their individual segment of the industry and can only add comments such as, I I I or Me Me Me, I mean come on people isn't this type of one way conversation a little embarrassing?:frown:

I think a persons work should speak for itself and nothing else, I know we all love praise and doing things that gain praise is a part of growth. However, when some one is grown, very successful and has nothing to prove to anyone because they have accomplished so much in what ever field they have chosen, and all they can do is down play another's accomplishments while trying to make themselves shine in some manner there is a problem with that individuals self confidences / self worth.

It would really be nice if everyone could be humble and modest, because then there would be no conflicts and no drama and the individual growth for us all would be off the charts. But most importantly by acknowledging the work of others in a positive manner, and by understanding that we don't have all the answers in any given subject we also do not pressure ourselves into a state of Depression trying to find still another way to one up all who do not agree with us.

I wish everyone a wonderful Holiday Season, I hope that good health, wealth, and especially peace of mind find each and every member of this forum.

Very respectfully

Craig W. Rittel

 

[JB Cases]

Perhaps part of being how you would like others to be is to be an example of that yourself. That begins with not attacking other people.

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that.

It would be really nice if we had world peace and no one went hungry and everyone could work in ways that fulfills them.

But that's not how the world works. The world is full of overreaching know-it-alls who seem to get a lot of joy out of pretending to be more knowledgeable about subjects that they are inexperienced at.

That type of behavior is what's grating to me.

And to be fair I have been GUILTY of it as well. Most recently I have been very hard on the BCA but really from an outsider's perspective as I have never been privy to the inner workings of the BCA.

Recently I sat down with a board member and he gave me some insight. That has made me rethink my position on the BCA somewhat and led me to not be so harsh with the speculation on the motivations behind the BCA's actions.

I think if we all would take a step back and post only that which we KNOW to be true and can be verified then we would cut down on most of the interpersonal issues. The problem as I see it is that a lot of us post speculation and innuendo in attempts to either make ourselves seem bigger than we are or in attempts to make others seem smaller.

I would suggest a huge dose of "practicing what you preach" for a lot of folks here, me included.

 

[book collector]

Perhaps part of being how you would like others to be is to be an example of that yourself. That begins with not attacking other people.

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that.

It would be really nice if we had world peace and no one went hungry and everyone could work in ways that fulfills them.

But that's not how the world works. The world is full of overreaching know-it-alls who seem to get a lot of joy out of pretending to be more knowledgeable about subjects that they are inexperienced at.

That type of behavior is what's grating to me.

And to be fair I have been GUILTY of it as well. Most recently I have been very hard on the BCA but really from an outsider's perspective as I have never been privy to the inner workings of the BCA.

Recently I sat down with a board member and he gave me some insight. That has made me rethink my position on the BCA somewhat and led me to not be so harsh with the speculation on the motivations behind the BCA's actions.

I think if we all would take a step back and post only that which we KNOW to be true and can be verified then we would cut down on most of the interpersonal issues. The problem as I see it is that a lot of us post speculation and innuendo in attempts to either make ourselves seem bigger than we are or in attempts to make others seem smaller.

I would suggest a huge dose of "practicing what you preach" for a lot of folks here, me included.

Tap Tap tap

 

[JesseAllred]

Humility and Modesty are great signs of character but it is really amazing that so many people can't see the forest through the tree's concerning this subject. Lately there have been many threads regarding this very subject, post's about cue makers calling themselves Master Craftsmen and others who just can't stand the fact that others in the same segment of the industry as them are making a name for themselves.

I find all of this conflict very distasteful, I mean that I just don't understand how some people apparently just can't see how they look when they are engaged in a conversation on a topic on their individual segment of the industry and can only add comments such as, I I I or Me Me Me, I mean come on people isn't this type of one way conversation a little embarrassing?:frown:

I think a persons work should speak for itself and nothing else, I know we all love praise and doing things that gain praise is a part of growth. However, when some one is grown, very successful and has nothing to prove to anyone because they have accomplished so much in what ever field they have chosen, and all they can do is down play another's accomplishments while trying to make themselves shine in some manner there is a problem with that individuals self confidences / self worth.

It would really be nice if everyone could be humble and modest, because then there would be no conflicts and no drama and the individual growth for us all would be off the charts. But most importantly by acknowledging the work of others in a positive manner, and by understanding that we don't have all the answers in any given subject we also do not pressure ourselves into a state of Depression trying to find still another way to one up all who do not agree with us.

I wish everyone a wonderful Holiday Season, I hope that good health, wealth, and especially peace of mind find each and every member of this forum.

Very respectfully

Craig W. Rittel

Craig,

While your argument seems to make sense on a personal level, when it comes to a company or individual promoting themselves I don't think there's any room for modesty in our current world marketplace. Calling themselves a "master craftsman" is almost a requirement. Great ideas with theoretically sound basis only work if everyone is on equal terms. Since advertising and now self-promotion through youtube and other vehicles has become the norm and literally everyone is trying to gain a voice for their product, to cling to small town ideals about modesty simply doesn't work anymore.

respectfully,

Jesse

 

[manwon]

Perhaps part of being how you would like others to be is to be an example of that yourself. That begins with not attacking other people.

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that.

It would be really nice if we had world peace and no one went hungry and everyone could work in ways that fulfills them.

But that's not how the world works. The world is full of overreaching know-it-alls who seem to get a lot of joy out of pretending to be more knowledgeable about subjects that they are inexperienced at.

That type of behavior is what's grating to me.

And to be fair I have been GUILTY of it as well. Most recently I have been very hard on the BCA but really from an outsider's perspective as I have never been privy to the inner workings of the BCA.

Recently I sat down with a board member and he gave me some insight. That has made me rethink my position on the BCA somewhat and led me to not be so harsh with the speculation on the motivations behind the BCA's actions.

I think if we all would take a step back and post only that which we KNOW to be true and can be verified then we would cut down on most of the interpersonal issues. The problem as I see it is that a lot of us post speculation and innuendo in attempts to either make ourselves seem bigger than we are or in attempts to make others seem smaller.

I would suggest a huge dose of "practicing what you preach" for a lot of folks here, me included.

But that's not how the world works. The world is full of overreaching know-it-alls who seem to get a lot of joy out of pretending to be more knowledgeable about subjects that they are inexperienced at.

That has nothing to with Modesty or Humility, but I do see your point, there certainly is a great deal of this happening every where we look. It seems there is always a big dog at the food bowel who has to try and push others out of the way. Now knowledge is another subject, some people can have all the knowledge in the world, but for some reason they do not have the common sense to properly apply that knowledge in manner isn't abrasive or disruptive. When things are handled in this manner people really don't care about the message any longer so the knowledge is never absorbed.


I think if we all would take a step back and post only that which we KNOW to be true and can be verified then we would cut down on most of the interpersonal issues. The problem as I see it is that a lot of us post speculation and innuendo in attempts to either make ourselves seem bigger than we are or in attempts to make others seem smaller.

What does this have to with Modesty and Humility?


Thanks for your comments but it appears it is Kinda hard for you to stay on topic isn't it!!

 

[manwon]

Craig,

While your argument seems to make sense on a personal level, when it comes to a company or individual promoting themselves I don't think there's any room for modesty in our current world marketplace. Calling themselves a "master craftsman" is almost a requirement. Great ideas with theoretically sound basis only work if everyone is on equal terms. Since advertising and now self-promotion through youtube and other vehicles has become the norm and literally everyone is trying to gain a voice for their product, to cling to small town ideals about modesty simply doesn't work anymore.

respectfully,

Jesse

Jesse I have to disagree with you, a person can be modest and humble and still have a very loud voice for any product you are selling, but that voice must come from the end user of the product not the manufacturer.

Thanks for your post

 

[JesseAllred]

Jesse I have to disagree with you can be modest and humble and still have a very loud voice for any product you are selling, but that voice must come from the end user of the product not the manufacturer.

Thanks for your post

Dang, you're right. I was trying to make a good argument against modesty and failed miserably. You may have won this battle, but I will be modestly prepared for our next encounter!

Depressingly humbled,

Jesse

 

[JB Cases]

But that's not how the world works. The world is full of overreaching know-it-alls who seem to get a lot of joy out of pretending to be more knowledgeable about subjects that they are inexperienced at.

That has nothing to with Modesty or Humility, but I do see your point, there certainly is a great deal of this happening every where we look. It seems there is always a big dog at the food bowel who has to try and push others out of the way. Now knowledge is another subject, some people can have all the knowledge in the world, but for some reason they do not have the common sense to properly apply that knowledge in manner isn't abrasive or disruptive. When things are handled in this manner people really don't care about the message any longer so the knowledge is never absorbed.


I think if we all would take a step back and post only that which we KNOW to be true and can be verified then we would cut down on most of the interpersonal issues. The problem as I see it is that a lot of us post speculation and innuendo in attempts to either make ourselves seem bigger than we are or in attempts to make others seem smaller.

What does this have to with Modesty and Humility?


Thanks for your comments but it appears it is Kinda hard for you to stay on topic isn't it!!

It's a matter of perspective. I for one don't think that anyone BUT a mastercraftsman can bestow the title of mastercraftsman on someone.

I certainly don't think of myself as one, and I don't think of our shop as a master shop of leather working. We are learning, always learning.

I disagree with your answer to Jesse that all that is to be said about a "product" should come from the customer. The customer is not the builder and as such has only a one sided perspective.

This is not a kumbaya world. It's just not. As much as we would like it to be it's not. We are all in competition. If someone elevates another maker above me without factual grounds then who is going to step in and correct the incorrect information?

Another customer? One of mine?

A statement like "so and so is the best" is subjective and can be ignored. it's flattering and ego-satisfying but it's an opinion that's usually not accompanied by a lot of experience with many other brands to compare to. But a statement that so and so's workmanship is "better" is objective and can be compared point for point. And if it's then not a true statement why should it be allowed to stand without challenge? And who should challenge it?

A statement like so-and-so's case provides the best protection is also a statement of fact. And if not true then who should correct that?

I mean if Joe Consumer were looking for the most protective case (not neccesarily the prettiest) and four people piped up and gave four answers as to which brand they thought had the best protection but all four people were factually wrong then should the maker of the case which does have the best protection chime in or not? Or should he remain modest and humble and not engage in the conversation to toot his own horn so to speak?

What if his daughter needs new shoes and losing that sale by not chiming in causes him to lose income? Should a person in business lose sales in order to err on the side of modesty and humility?

This isn't church. It's life. It's competition. Some of us work very hard to stay ahead of the curve and to do that we have to make sure we don't get passed up by others.

Now, I believe in what Steven Covey calls an abundance mentality. I believe that there is plenty of business for everyone. But that doesn't mean that everyone in business can sit back and wait for customers to come knocking. That's how people in business end up out of business.

In German they say, 'wer nicht werbt, stirbt' which means who doesn't advertise, dies. That's how it goes in procreation and in business. VERY VERY VERY few businesses can survive on word of mouth alone.

So while I can understand your position I think it's not practical for a small business whose only chance to speak up and tell the world about themselves is on forums related to their product.

If a business speaks up and showcases the things that they have done to improve the field they are in then that should be fine, if true. Now I agree that they can go about that with humility and grace or with arrogance and classlessness. Personally I have run the whole spectrum.

But speaking just for myself I will never lay down and allow anyone else to be placed ahead of me when they don't deserve it when it comes to a statement of fact. And I expect my competitors not to allow it when such a thing happens to me. That's what keeps us all on our toes trying to make better products. Well at least that's how I go about it.

 

[nksmfamjp]

The people above me in this thread are in the industry, I believe.

From the customer prospective, I see two things going on here.

First, Manwon, you probably make the best cues in your area, state, country, world. . .but I don't know that because you aren't always putting them on here, telling us, the regular Joe, what you are doing. From the words of others, I would expect your work to be amazing! I wish you would show, push, promote more. Some have said JB pushes too much. Frankly, I see his promotion as about right. It is not so much that I think, if I open this thread, it will be the same thing again. No, I think, crap I've bee waiting almost 3 days to see what could be the coolest case ever! JB, BHQ, Sly, Al_Bautista, the_general, I missed a few, I'm sure are all promoting here, the right amount. Promote your stuff. . .promote your know how.

Now, the arguing that my joint, ferrule, splice is better than yours, is tiring when it happens, I think it is rare. The only thing I see which bothers me as a customer is the your idea is dumb and only I build it right. . .but I can't say how. The I'm the best and I can't say why gets old. You know who you are. That is the self promotion I don't like. The best example was Mr. Baroni when he jumped on here with a wild flame out for a while!


The key is explaining/showing what you do best without tossing out that one technical detail you worked on for years. For example, I would expect if I asked every cuemaker to post their exact shaft taper and how they determined it was best, that you would all flame me. If I asked what are your shaft measurements at 0,8,16" from the tim, I would hope that is a fair question which customers could use to say well, Joe's taper is what I think is about best for me.


So, I agree pure arrogance has no place, but I believe I'm best because of this, this and this. . .I think this has a place.

Just be careful because best will invite opposing opinion and that can start a flame - out which just leaves your name at the top of a long battle.

Anyways, cuemakers. . .please post your stuff and tell us dumb customers why it is best.

 

[JB Cases]

Nate,

Here is a link to your case if you want to change your case relationship status in your sig line.

http://www.jbcases.com/nathan.html

 

[StrokeofLuck]

It seems there is always a big dog at the food bowel!

Food bowel? Ewww! Sorry, made me laugh when I saw it.

 

[bobco729]

He may need a laxative. lol
"country Bob

 

[manwon]

Food bowel? Ewww! Sorry, made me laugh when I saw it.

That is kinda funny, I should have chosen different words!!!!!!!!!

Thanks very much for your post

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

The title of Master Craftsman can be bestowed by anyone.
I'm far from that title but happy with what I can do so far and will only get better by practice.

If Craig were to call himself a Master Craftsman, I would say thats pretty presumptuous. If I want to bestow that title on him because of the beautiful restoration work he does on older cues, then I can. I don't have to be an artist to tell whats good or not.

 

[manwon]

The people above me in this thread are in the industry, I believe.

From the customer prospective, I see two things going on here.

First, Manwon, you probably make the best cues in your area, state, country, world. . .but I don't know that because you aren't always putting them on here, telling us, the regular Joe, what you are doing. From the words of others, I would expect your work to be amazing! I wish you would show, push, promote more. Some have said JB pushes too much. Frankly, I see his promotion as about right. It is not so much that I think, if I open this thread, it will be the same thing again. No, I think, crap I've bee waiting almost 3 days to see what could be the coolest case ever! JB, BHQ, Sly, Al_Bautista, the_general, I missed a few, I'm sure are all promoting here, the right amount. Promote your stuff. . .promote your know how.

Now, the arguing that my joint, ferrule, splice is better than yours, is tiring when it happens, I think it is rare. The only thing I see which bothers me as a customer is the your idea is dumb and only I build it right. . .but I can't say how. The I'm the best and I can't say why gets old. You know who you are. That is the self promotion I don't like. The best example was Mr. Baroni when he jumped on here with a wild flame out for a while!


The key is explaining/showing what you do best without tossing out that one technical detail you worked on for years. For example, I would expect if I asked every cuemaker to post their exact shaft taper and how they determined it was best, that you would all flame me. If I asked what are your shaft measurements at 0,8,16" from the tim, I would hope that is a fair question which customers could use to say well, Joe's taper is what I think is about best for me.


So, I agree pure arrogance has no place, but I believe I'm best because of this, this and this. . .I think this has a place.

Just be careful because best will invite opposing opinion and that can start a flame - out which just leaves your name at the top of a long battle.

Anyways, cuemakers. . .please post your stuff and tell us dumb customers why it is best.

First, Manwon, you probably make the best cues in your area, state, country, world. . .but I don't know that because you aren't always putting them on here, telling us, the regular Joe, what you are doing. From the words of others, I would expect your work to be amazing! I wish you would show, push, promote more. Some have said JB pushes too much. Frankly, I see his promotion as about right. It is not so much that I think, if I open this thread, it will be the same thing again. No, I think, crap I've bee waiting almost 3 days to see what could be the coolest case ever! JB, BHQ, Sly, Al_Bautista, the_general, I missed a few, I'm sure are all promoting here, the right amount. Promote your stuff. . .promote your know how.


Thanks very much for your post and the kind words. But, the truth is I love making cues, I love repairing cues, and I love restoring Antique cues. However, I am certainly not the best at what I do, there are many others who's experience exceeds mine by a great deal. I am a self taught Cue Smith who happens to build a few cues throughout the year, almost all my experience has been gained by hands on trial and error. The reason I do not promote myself on the forum is the same reason I do not promote myself locally, I have all the work that I wish to handle. When I opened my pool room / retail store / cue repair shop in 2003 business was slow and this is to be expected, because in my opinion everyone must build a reputation that is good or bad based upon their actions - not what they say and this can only happen over time.

I have always believed that ones actions speak louder than words. I personally think the biggest turn off is when some one has to over and over and over tell everyone how good they are or why they are better than the others, I mean who are these people trying convince themselves or their customers. I have never been one to push my myself or what I do on others and I don't think there is ever any reason to do so. In my opinion your product will tell the whole story, and the way people react to each individuals talents will make you succeed or fail, and no matter what you say it will never be more important than the reaction of your customers to your service's. This is why I think that word of mouth advertising is the best form on the planet and it is the only reason I have enjoyed the level of success I am satisfied with today.

To add to the above I would further say knocking the work of others also certainly isn't the way to go. No one knows everything, and some appear to not understand this because they always have the answer and they always have to be right. This type of arrogance is totally counter productive for anyone who chooses this route with the goal of self glorification, and this behavior does go on and it is very obvious in posts by some forum members. I have wondered if they can't see what they are doing or if they think that everyone else is as blind as their individual group of followers who hype them at every turn. Either way, awareness is the key to correcting bad habits, and I hope no one takes this post in personal manner because in some way, shape, form or time it can apply to us all.


Thanks very much for your post, I appreciate your thoughts on this subject and your comments.

 

[manwon]

The title of Master Craftsman can be bestowed by anyone.
I'm far from that title but happy with what I can do so far and will only get better by practice.

If Craig were to call himself a Master Craftsman, I would say thats pretty presumptuous. If I want to bestow that title on him because of the beautiful restoration work he does on older cues, then I can. I don't have to be an artist to tell whats good or not.

I also agree that you do not have to be expert to have an opinion, this is another thing that sets some people off. There are members of this forum who believe that unless you have this many posts or you have been a member for so long, or unless you are well known throughout the Billiards Community you should just keep your mouth shut and listen so that you can learn from the wise. I Mean WTF

This to me is a joke, just because some one has done or been involved with something for a longer period of time doesn't mean that they have their finger on the pulse of the industry. In my opinion anyone can have any opinion they choose to have concerning what they like or what they dislike, and it doesn't take some know it all expert to bring them around to a point of view that they obviously don't agree with in the first.

Everyones opinion is valuable and sometimes when people are involved with a single project or industry for a long period time they forget that ideas and valuable content can come from places that you would never expect and from people who are over looked because some ones nose gets in the way. This is no way to act and it does nothing for anyones self image, in fact over time people like this no longer like what they see in the mirror and their only source of enjoyment is saving the world from itself, when actually the world needs to saved from them.

Tolerance of another's opinion is part of being humble, and for those who can not tolerate how some else feels about a given subject or item you need to grow up, because you are not the voice of reason or the great savior that you think you are, in the end you only look like a know it all who everyone knows doesn't know as much as they think they do!!!!

Thanks for your post buddy, and the information provided at least in my opinion!!!!!:grin:

 

[JB Cases]

The title of Master Craftsman can be bestowed by anyone.
I'm far from that title but happy with what I can do so far and will only get better by practice.

If Craig were to call himself a Master Craftsman, I would say thats pretty presumptuous. If I want to bestow that title on him because of the beautiful restoration work he does on older cues, then I can. I don't have to be an artist to tell whats good or not.

I agree that anyone can say that anyone else is a "mastercraftsman". But I was speaking of it more in terms of being judged by your peers.

I agree that you don't have to be an artist or a craftsman to know what's "good". But "good" also has different meanings to different people.

My point is that I feel pride when a customer says what we make is good. I feel validated when a colleague/competitor says it's good or even goes so far as to adopt our techniques.

I know that some customers are very discerning, they are very much in tune with the nuance of the products. When I know their experience level and with what sort of "eye" they look at the products they pass judgment on then I give more or less weight to their opinions.

An extreme example would be if someone came on this forum and declared that the maker of the Budweiser Cues from the flea market must be a mastercraftsman. That person would be laughed off the forum. Mere ownership of a product does not make one an expert.

When any of us get a new toy we always describe the positives and gloss over the negatives, and if we don't have a lot of experience with similar products we might not even know that certain things "should" be better.

On my leatherworking board www.leatherworker.net this is a common complaint. Leather workers are often faced with customers who compare their painstakingly finished leather goods with el cheapo mass production ones as if the workmanship were close. They have to fade people telling them that their stuff is overpriced when they can get the "same thing" two booths down for half the price.

In Germany they still have the apprentice system and no one can get the title of Master Craftsman without earning that distinction from existing Masters. They don't take the title lightly nor do they bestow it lightly.

And anyone who does without truly understanding what the title means dilutes it in my opinion until it is meaningless.

A good example would be if x-number of people were to say that so-and-so is a master leather worker. But so-and-so's work wouldn't even be allowed on the table at any decent leather show. So the problem is then that a certain number of customers who have no real experience come to think that so-and-so's work is representative of master class work.

This type of hype tends to create uncomfortable situations for the real master craftsmen who have worked very hard to get to their level. And it's often that so-and-so doesn't consider themselves to be a master either but it's hard to dismiss such praise when it's lavished on you.

Anyway, it's all murky these days. As much as the net can be used to show off your work it's also just as easy for people who aren't as good to be elevated above you whether they deserve it or not.

 

[JB Cases]

There is a difference between stating an opinion and making a statement of fact.

When someone THINKS that a situation in the industry is a certain way but they don't KNOW it for sure then they should STATE that clearly.

But when someone makes a statement as if it's fact and insinuates that they know it for sure and it's not then that has to be addressed.

No one is forbidden from expressing their opinion. But a lot of folks have forgotten how to express an opinion so that it's clear that they don't really have the facts.

So when a person expresses an opinion as if it's a fact then they are either trying to make themselves out to be an expert or they are truly just not cognizant of the proper way to distinguish a factual statement from an opinion. I personally think that both types of people frequent all forums.

When it comes to the billiard industry there are people on this board who are truly "in the know" on certain subjects and those people are constantly amazed to see the comments from others which are false but presented as if those comments are based in fact.

That's annoying to those who are in the know on certain subjects.

 

[JB Cases]

I also agree that you do not have to be expert to have an opinion, this is another thing that sets some people off. There are members of this forum who believe that unless you have this many posts or you have been a member for so long, or unless you are well known throughout the Billiards Community you should just keep your mouth shut and listen so that you can learn from the wise. I Mean WTF

See my post above on the difference between opinion and fact. To this I would add that if your opinion is offensive then it should be disagreed with.

No one has said that anyone else should just keep their mouth shut. What people SHOULD do is not offer opinions that are stated as fact. They shouldn't pretend to be industry insiders when they are not.

This to me is a joke, just because some one has done or been involved with something for a longer period of time doesn't mean that they have their finger on the pulse of the industry.

True. But if that person is active in their industry then it's a fair assumption that they do have a higher level of insight and factual information than people who are on the outside looking in.

In my opinion anyone can have any opinion they choose to have concerning what they like or what they dislike, and it doesn't take some know it all expert to bring them around to a point of view that they obviously don't agree with in the first.

Once again, when an opinion is stated as an opinion then everyone is entitled to state it. And a dissenting opinion is also allowed to be stated.

For example if a person says so-and-so is the greatest cuemaker ever then another person is allowed to disagree with that opinion and provide examples. If someone says so-and-so builds the best cue in the world from a technical standpoint and yet their work shows plenty of flaws then in my mind it's the duty of others to correct this fallacy.

Everyones opinion is valuable and sometimes when people are involved with a single project or industry for a long period time they forget that ideas and valuable content can come from places that you would never expect and from people who are over looked because some ones nose gets in the way.

I am sure you are right. However the statement is awfully broad. I disagree that everyone's opinion is "valuable". Sorry but some people just troll with no intention of being helpful in any way. Is a D-players opinion that a flea market special as good as a Bushka valuable? Not to me.

This is no way to act and it does nothing for anyones self image, in fact over time people like this no longer like what they see in the mirror and their only source of enjoyment is saving the world from itself, when actually the world needs to saved from them.

This seems like a deeper issue for you. And there is an awful lot of psychological analysis going on. Shouldn't this all be in Non-Pool Related?

Tolerance of another's opinion is part of being humble, and for those who can not tolerate how some else feels about a given subject or item you need to grow up, because you are not the voice of reason or the great savior that you think you are, in the end you only look like a know it all who everyone knows doesn't know as much as they think they do!!!!

Again how someone feels and what they try to pass of as fact are two different things. Some know-it-alls actually do know it all about certain subjects. Those people should be respected for their knowledge. I would not presume to debate antique cues with you for example. My experience with them is so limited as to be nearly inconsequential. So if I made a statement that I thought Titlists were pieces of crap and anyone who makes cues using them is a hack then I would expect to be soundly admonished and set straight with facts.

This is after all a discussion board. Humility is also not overstepping your knowledge level to make your opinions sound as if they come from a base of knowledge. Modesty demands that you take a back seat and not over-hype something to the detriment of others just because you are pleased with it.

At least that's how I understand the concepts of humility and modesty.

And lastly making all sorts of insults to a person where you attempt to delve in to their pysche by acting like a psychologist is neither modest nor humble.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Words for all of us to remember.

 

[manwon]

See my post above on the difference between opinion and fact. To this I would add that if your opinion is offensive then it should be disagreed with.

No one has said that anyone else should just keep their mouth shut. What people SHOULD do is not offer opinions that are stated as fact. They shouldn't pretend to be industry insiders when they are not.



True. But if that person is active in their industry then it's a fair assumption that they do have a higher level of insight and factual information than people who are on the outside looking in.



Once again, when an opinion is stated as an opinion then everyone is entitled to state it. And a dissenting opinion is also allowed to be stated.

For example if a person says so-and-so is the greatest cuemaker ever then another person is allowed to disagree with that opinion and provide examples. If someone says so-and-so builds the best cue in the world from a technical standpoint and yet their work shows plenty of flaws then in my mind it's the duty of others to correct this fallacy.


I am sure you are right. However the statement is awfully broad. I disagree that everyone's opinion is "valuable". Sorry but some people just troll with no intention of being helpful in any way. Is a D-players opinion that a flea market special as good as a Bushka valuable? Not to me.


This seems like a deeper issue for you. And there is an awful lot of psychological analysis going on. Shouldn't this all be in Non-Pool Related?



Again how someone feels and what they try to pass of as fact are two different things. Some know-it-alls actually do know it all about certain subjects. Those people should be respected for their knowledge. I would not presume to debate antique cues with you for example. My experience with them is so limited as to be nearly inconsequential. So if I made a statement that I thought Titlists were pieces of crap and anyone who makes cues using them is a hack then I would expect to be soundly admonished and set straight with facts.

This is after all a discussion board. Humility is also not overstepping your knowledge level to make your opinions sound as if they come from a base of knowledge. Modesty demands that you take a back seat and not over-hype something to the detriment of others just because you are pleased with it.

At least that's how I understand the concepts of humility and modesty.

And lastly making all sorts of insults to a person where you attempt to delve in to their pysche by acting like a psychologist is neither modest nor humble.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Words for all of us to remember.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Words for all of us to remember.


I think you made some very valid points post thanks for your participation, and I agree that not judging another's actions is very important especially since there is no one qualified to pass judgment on another's opinion. Lets face it no one can change what some one else thinks, providing additional information may work and it may not, however, by allowing silly opinions to pass without answer shows that confidence in good judgment will prevail and that is a very important step in gaining the self confidence many of us seek.

Self confidence is first step to becoming humble and modest because once we attain it we can add content without forcing our opinion and thoughts on others and the foolishness can just be passed by without a second thought.


Thanks again