"Hustling": Is It Sleazy Or Clever (Or Both)?

[BmoreMoney]

The scenario you describe here is completely different than the one I commented on. This current one smacks of self esteem issues of a maladjusted person who is being mentally abused & preyed upon. Not the same thing.

Lets be honest on this issue, while for sure there my be self esteem issues and or some mental stuff going on - the VAST MAJORITY of these girls are doing this because they are being fed drugs and they find this the quickest - easiest way to fees their habits. Yea it can be sad, but what ever happened to personal responsibility?

 

[(((Satori)))]

The scenario you describe here is completely different than the one I commented on. This current one smacks of self esteem issues of a maladjusted person who is being mentally abused & preyed upon. Not the same thing.

You mean the girl didn't bring it on herself by trying to win his affection? It's not her fault for doing stuff she never wanted to do just so she could win the affection that was never really there? Interesting!

I was wondering where you would draw the line. Wondering when getting preyed upon would no longer be the victims fault.

Btw, in each scenario the victims are all getting preyed upon. The pool hustler, the gold digger, and the pimp are all predators taking advantage.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

what about all of the states (is it every state now?) that sell lottery tickets?

talk about making games getting all the nuts. :angry:

I consider this to be a tax imposed on people who are bad at math.

At the end of the day, if you gamble, there are attendant risks. If you are an adult and willing to give it a go, then it's your responsibility to understand the math - and all of the other risks.

The guy in the painters overalls may have never painted anything in his life. :wink:

best,
brian kc

 

[9andout]

I voted clever but I had to think about it a minute.
A favorite of non-hustle of mine was in Cornbread Red's book:
He said he would go into a new town and ask "Who's the best player in this town?"
When they replied he would say "Well, you better call him and tell him he's the SECOND BEST now that I'm here!" Lol
That got their attention I'm sure!

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Tramp I respect your opinion but find it very idealistic. Look at how many people on here love the road stories from CJ and many many others. Two of the most popular times in pool was after The Hustler and TCOM. Dont think that would have been the case if Fast Eddie had put his arm around Vince and said " look son, you have a gambling problem - I'm gonna help you ". I think there may be a couple things going on in this thread. First and foremost sleazy is a very subjective term. Secondly the definition of hustling means something different to everyone. So let me ask you Tramp, what are your thoughts on the example I put forth about a challenge table?

True enough, it is only my opinion and opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one, but this poll we've all partaken of, bears me out.
If someone does have a problem with a gambling addiction we certainly aren't obligated to help them off the path they've chosen, but on the other hand I don't feel we should help them move further on down that path either.
To me it's for the greater good of pool.

 

[GoldCrown]

If someone does have a problem with a gambling addiction we certainly aren't obligated to help them off the path they've chosen, but on the other hand I don't feel we should help them move further on down that path either.
To me it's for the greater good of pool.

There's a sucker born every minute. Suck or be sucked. That's life.

 

[BmoreMoney]

True enough, it is only my opinion and opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one, but this poll we've all partaken of, bears me out.
If someone does have a problem with a gambling addiction we certainly aren't obligated to help them off the path they've chosen, but on the other hand I don't feel we should help them move further on down that path either.
To me it's for the greater good of pool.

As far as I can see if you look at the poll I believe it puts you in the minority ( if taking those who voted it was both sleazy and clever which I did ). You obviously care more about a complete stranger than I do and that's cool bro. I care about people in general and try to be a good guy. I however though think its completely different when you have two adults that willingly engage in gambling ( for try e reasons I have stated above ). I am still curious about your take on the challenge table scenario though. Isn't it kinda considered " hustling " if while on that table you play just good enough to win? I will agree that would be some type of hustling, but at the same time find it completely acceptable and smart. Once again, each and every person you face on that table is also trying to take your money right? What would you do if you were on that table? I have no problem with someone who's conscience tells them to play their best game each and every game regardless if they know it will undoubtedly kill their action for the rest of the night, and knowing they are only going to win maybe $20 whereas the could probably win a couple hundred. But for me; imo at least, I think IF you are gambling the objective is to win and to win as much as you can as long as you are not cheating. Ie: Not moving a ball when they're not looking, calling a good hit when you know it was bad, sharking your opponent etc. As I said that's just my opinion but I have a feeling that opinion is prob held by most on here as well as most pool players that gamble in general.

Ps - as far as what's good for pool, I think its been well established the squeaky clean image is not well rcvd and the seedy ( insert whatever adjective here) is what most find the most interesting and inturn gives pool its popularity.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

As an aside, there's a hustle going on in my pool room, I beg your pardon, sports bar and grill. It's a 'quiet hustle'.
There's a fellow who is pensioned, and has a job driving a truck so his income is good. He plays One Pocket, but not that well.
There are three 'quiet hustlers' who regularly take turns cleaning his clock for fairly large sums of cash. Whether he knows he's being hustled is uncertain. Maybe he figures it's a learning experience, who knows.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

As far as I can see if you look at the poll I believe it puts you in the minority ( if taking those who voted it was both sleazy and clever which I did ). You obviously care more about a complete stranger than I do and that's cool bro. I care about people in general and try to be a good guy. I however though think its completely different when you have two adults that willingly engage in gambling ( for try e reasons I have stated above ). I am still curious about your take on the challenge table scenario though. Isn't it kinda considered " hustling " if while on that table you play just good enough to win? I will agree that would be some type of hustling, but at the same time find it completely acceptable and smart. Once again, each and every person you face on that table is also trying to take your money right? What would you do if you were on that table? I have no problem with someone who's conscience tells them to play their best game each and every game regardless if they know it will undoubtedly kill their action for the rest of the night, and knowing they are only going to win maybe $20 whereas the could probably win a couple hundred. But for me; imo at least, I think IF you are gambling the objective is to win and to win as much as you can as long as you are not cheating. Ie: Not moving a ball when they're not looking, calling a good hit when you know it was bad, sharking your opponent etc. As I said that's just my opinion but I have a feeling that opinion is prob held by most on here as well as most pool players that gamble in general.

Ps - as far as what's good for pool, I think its been well established the squeaky clean image is not well rcvd and the seedy ( insert whatever adjective here) is what most find the most interesting and inturn gives pool its popularity.

The third choice, "Both Sleazy and Clever", should not be there. It's redundant and unnecessary.

 

[BmoreMoney]

The third choice, "Both Sleazy and Clever", should not be there. It's redundant and unnecessary.

Why? You can easily feel more than one way about pretty much anything at the same time.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Why? You can easily feel more than one way about pretty much anything at the same time.

But, not in a poll.
Any answer to "Both Sleazy and Clever" can be taken so many ways as to make the selection pointless. How much sleaze as opposed to how much cunning.
The selections should only have been, sleaze or clever, you choose.
Well, that's it for me. I've become as moot as this poll has. :thumbup:

 

[PoolChump]

Sleazy. Just sleazy.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Can anyone else chime in and give thoughts to my challenge table example. I am going to say this upfront : If 10 people on here say they would just get up and play balls to the wall and try to absolutely crush every person that gets on the table I am calling BS on 9 of them!

On many challenge tables in a bar full of people, if you lose, you may not get back to the table for a LONG time. So yes, when I play on them I try to win every game. I won 16 games in a row once. It's best if there is only one table in the bar, because then after the players have waited a long time for their turn, you will most likely get as least one game out of them.

 

[PoolChump]

On many challenge tables in a bar full of people, if you lose, you may not get back to the table for a LONG time. So yes, when I play on them I try to win every game. I won 16 games in a row once. It's best if there is only one table in the bar, because then after the players have waited a long time for their turn, you will most likely get as least one game out of them.

Playing weaker players hurts your game. Play somewhere else where you lose and you will win in the long run.:embarrassed2::shakehead::bash::slap::banghead:oke::nono::withstupid:

 

[Mr. Bond]

Tramp I respect your opinion but find it very idealistic. Look at how many people on here love the road stories from CJ and many many others. Two of the most popular times in pool was after The Hustler and TCOM. Dont think that would have been the case if Fast Eddie had put his arm around Vince and said " look son, you have a gambling problem - I'm gonna help you ". I think there may be a couple things going on in this thread. First and foremost sleazy is a very subjective term. Secondly the definition of hustling means something different to everyone. So let me ask you Tramp, what are your thoughts on the example I put forth about a challenge table?

I do realize that the "bad guy" image always appeals to a certain number of people.
John Dillinger had movies made about him too. But at the end of the day, he was still a thief. A brilliant thief.

I do realize that playing for money is not inherently sleazy, neither is gambling - when the risks are clearly known or defined.

But the question isn't about popularity, wagering, or gambling. It's an opinion question on deception, in whatever form it comes.

Yes, people do it all the time. Oh well.
Would I do it? No.
It might be fun to play dress-up for a while, but at the end of the day, I'd still be just a pretender and a thief.

I will beat you on the table with my pool playing skills, not with better lies than you.
If you need lies to win, you need more practice.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Playing weaker players hurts your game. Play somewhere else where you lose and you will win in the long run.:embarrassed2::shakehead::bash::slap::banghead:oke::nono::withstupid:

Do you not know what a "Challenge Table" is? I have no idea the skill level of the next player to step up. The next player could be a "Pool Champ or Chump". The idea for me is to make enough money to pay for the night out. It's called having "fun".

 

[PoolChump]

Do you not know what a "Challenge Table" is? I have no idea the skill level of the next player to step up. The next player could be a "Pool Champ or Chump". The idea for me is to make enough money to pay for the night out. It's called having "fun".

Chumps always win. :nanner::welcome::wave::killingme::embarrassed2:

 

[BmoreMoney]

I do realize that the "bad guy" image always appeals to a certain number of people.
John Dillinger had movies made about him too. But at the end of the day, he was still a thief. A brilliant thief.

I do realize that playing for money is not inherently sleazy, neither is gambling - when the risks are clearly known or defined.

But the question isn't about popularity, wagering, or gambling. It's an opinion question on deception, in whatever form it comes.

Yes, people do it all the time. Oh well.
Would I do it? No.
It might be fun to play dress-up for a while, but at the end of the day, I'd still be just a pretender and a thief.

I will beat you on the table with my pool playing skills, not with better lies than you.
If you need lies to win, you need more practice.

Mr Bond, I guess this is what I'm saying - I will agree that in the strictest moral sense intentionally not playing your best to try to extract the most money out of your opponent IS WRONG. But who amongst us has the highest moral authority such as a saint, a priest ( no jokes please ) or whomever? Now that argument by itself admittedly would not be enough so I will add something that I believe to be the crux of this issue. I sorta feel like it has been, is, and always will be part of the gambling game. As someone said it is in fact a skill. Cat and mouse if you will. I think just about anyone that gambles is well aware of it. Often both parties are playing the same ( game ), only one can be best at it. Early in this thread some were comparing it to robbery. In my mind someone who goes in and robs a 7-11, a little old lady with her ss check, whatever is on a TOTALLY different level than someone who is matched up and laying down somewhat. The two are not even on the same planet as far as I'm concerned. Matching up has always been a part of action, and as far as I know you should match up the best you can if you're putting your $$$ on the line. I fully understand not everyone will feel this way and that's fine. I will say though I do whole heartedly believe some people posting in this thread are playing the " holier than tho " card. What I mean by that is of those that gamble; let's say they match up with someone that they KNOW they can easily give the 6 ball to but that person only asks for the 8. I do not believe for one second these people are going to say no no you need at least the 6 my friend. I know this is not the exact same thing we are talking about but the principal IS exactly the same. I know we are on the Internet so most don't know me on a personal level but here is an example I'd like to share. So, I've already said that if on a challenge table for example I'm only going to play as good as I need to to win. With that being said, this has happened to me twice over the last several months - I have been in the casino and someone has dropped something out of their pocket without knowing it. Once was a couple hundred in cash, once was a cash out ticket for a little less than a hundred . Both times; without even thinking about it, I grabbed it and gave it right back to the person. So with both of these things at the opposite ends of the morality spectrum does this make me a morally corrupt person?

 

[(((Satori)))]

I do realize that the "bad guy" image always appeals to a certain number of people.
John Dillinger had movies made about him too. But at the end of the day, he was still a thief. A brilliant thief.

I do realize that playing for money is not inherently sleazy, neither is gambling - when the risks are clearly known or defined.

But the question isn't about popularity, wagering, or gambling. It's an opinion question on deception, in whatever form it comes.

Yes, people do it all the time. Oh well.
Would I do it? No.
It might be fun to play dress-up for a while, but at the end of the day, I'd still be just a pretender and a thief.

I will beat you on the table with my pool playing skills, not with better lies than you.
If you need lies to win, you need more practice.

Pretty much what I was saying. Mutual betting is one thing. Then a player that is "hustling" to get the best of it starts to get a little iffy. But I know that not all hustling is a he is trying to take my money so I am going to take his competition and many times the hustler is looking for an easy victim and will do super shady things to get the cash.

I think pool hustling is considered sleazy by most people even at the most basic level. Most certainly at the higher levels.

 

[KissedOut]

The degree to which people can rationalize and justify their dishonesty is truly amazing. Misrepresentations for the purpose of financial gain are dishonest. No matter who else is doing it or to what extent. It is dishonest. No matter what kind of movie has been made about the people doing it. No matter how much the film-maker uses his art to make you root for the guy he wants you to root for even though you despise his every value.

Now you can rationalize that and justify it all you want but that doesn't change anything.

If that makes me naive and a flat, compared to all of you sharps, that is fine. Sharps tend to die alone and broke and flats tend to die surrounded by their loving family. Even if somewhere along the line the sharp takes the flat for a ride. Because in the end the flat is still a decent person and the sharp is --- well --- a sharp.