I am so sick of it.

T

The Machine

Registered
Evryone wants tournaments. People talk about sponsors, added money, paying the tourney directors. STOP!

Who are these people? They are not the people that love to play...that dream of becoming a player. These are players or "I think I am a player"s.

I guarantee you this. You run a $7 entry pool tournament. You allow 32 players. Running a pool tournament is like falling off a log, so no need to pay some money grubber to run it.

You now have $224 in entry fees. Any pool hall owner worth his salt will host 32 players and their significant others. With 32 players you only need 6-8 tables for an hour or two, then 4 tables for the same then 1-2 for the same.

With your $224 you don't need to handicap the event to keep out the top players. You simply structure it so the top players aren't interested. And you certainly structure it so that anyone from out of town won't play. Why would the pool hall owner want the out of towners. He wants to create players that will frequent the establishment on a regular basis.

So, with your 32 players and $224 you have a fine event. First place...a $99 dollar cue. Second place $40, third $35, 4th $25, 5th and 6th $20, 7th and 8th $10, and 9th thru 12th...give them a free entry to another event.

The cue costs $50, so you have given away $210 cash, and 4 entries with a "value of $7 each. Keep in mind that those players WILL be back, and spend money in the hall, and fill the event, which creates demand.

Back to my guarantee. You do this, and you will have a full tourney every week. You will create players, and it will be fun. Anyone that turns up their nose at competing for a $99 cue, or $40 cash....you don't want them anyway. You have weeded out the moneygrubbers, and provided an event that sends home 12 winners. Thats 12 people strutting their stuff all week, about how they "made the cash". You are creating players and providing competition for the up and comers.

This can be taken to the next level also. Consider a $15 entry 32 player event. You are now catering to the next level of player. You still will not have out of town money grubbers, but you may get a few of the in town top guys. But, the lower players can still get a piece of the pie, and many of them would like a chance to play the top guys.

With this one you have $480 in the pot. Again, provide for 12 happy winners. 1st place $85, 2nd $70, 3rd $60, 4th $50, 5th/6th $40, 7th/8th $30, and 9-12th $15. Gee, you even have $15 left to have someone run this one.

Both these events can be 8,9, or 10 ball. With 8 ball, a race to 3 is sufficient. With the 9 or 10 ball, a race to 4 does the trick.

Doubtful? Proven. Full events for 2 years running, turning people away. In a community of 7500.

I am so sick of people whining about tournaments. most are just whining because there is nowhere for them to make money. Face it, money is tough to make in this game. We need to create players in order to see the sport grow. Look at the leagues. Most leagues have lots of teams, each player paying $10 or more a week to play, and most have no realistic chance of winning. These are the players competition pool needs.
 
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I guess everyone entered is playing off the wall. Most league players own at least one pool cue. Most of them aren't playing with a POS KMart cue.

WHy would a guy who is a beginner/novice who already has purchased a cue through a desire to get better using a consistent piece of equipment want a POS $99 cuetec, players cue?

Glad to hear you get a full field and turn them away. I am certain the draw isn't a new cue...

The local Moose here has weekly Friday and Saturday tourneys with the shortest races imaginable. They have a good turn out week after week. It's rare that the same player will win 2 weeks running. The payout is usually 60% 30% 10% with 3rd place purse covering the entry fee and a couple of $2 beers.

Keep the prizes cash and let the winner go buy a POS cue with his $50 -$80 winnings.

:cool:
 
no mystery

Hate to agree with anybody but The Machine is right except for
the $99.00 cue. You could throw in a small side pot and a 9-ball
on the break on going pool for a buck or two. Beer drinkers all.
Saturday afternoon so no one gets home at 2:00 AM. I've seen
it done . I've played in them and enjoyed it.
 
The Machine said:
Running a pool tournament is like falling off a log, so no need to pay some money grubber to run it.
Click to expand...

I agree that the job itself is easy enough but I disagree on your sentiment. I ran a local tournament for yrs and was given free table time from the pool room for doing so. Nowadays I wouldn't do it if I was paid cash.

As I stated, the job is easy, it is the BS that comes with the job that makes it not so easy. Even if the tournament isn't handicapped there are many variables that come into play that can give someone a headache. There is too much whining from the players about too many things from their wait time to a called hit and everything in between.

Sure its easy but it certainly isn't worth the headache it causes. Nope, couldn't pay me to do it again. :wink:
 
If you won the tournament you don't need a new cue yours works just fine. It's like giving a new driver to whoever wins the longest drive at a golf tournament.
 
The Machine said:
Evryone wants tournaments. People talk about sponsors, added money, paying the tourney directors. STOP!

Who are these people? They are not the people that love to play...that dream of becoming a player. These are players or "I think I am a player"s.

I guarantee you this. You run a $7 entry pool tournament. You allow 32 players. Running a pool tournament is like falling off a log, so no need to pay some money grubber to run it.

You now have $224 in entry fees. Any pool hall owner worth his salt will host 32 players and their significant others. With 32 players you only need 6-8 tables for an hour or two, then 4 tables for the same then 1-2 for the same.

With your $224 you don't need to handicap the event to keep out the top players. You simply structure it so the top players aren't interested. And you certainly structure it so that anyone from out of town won't play. Why would the pool hall owner want the out of towners. He wants to create players that will frequent the establishment on a regular basis.

So, with your 32 players and $224 you have a fine event. First place...a $99 dollar cue. Second place $40, third $35, 4th $25, 5th and 6th $20, 7th and 8th $10, and 9th thru 12th...give them a free entry to another event.

The cue costs $50, so you have given away $210 cash, and 4 entries with a "value of $7 each. Keep in mind that those players WILL be back, and spend money in the hall, and fill the event, which creates demand.

Back to my guarantee. You do this, and you will have a full tourney every week. You will create players, and it will be fun. Anyone that turns up their nose at competing for a $99 cue, or $40 cash....you don't want them anyway. You have weeded out the moneygrubbers, and provided an event that sends home 12 winners. Thats 12 people strutting their stuff all week, about how they "made the cash". You are creating players and providing competition for the up and comers.

This can be taken to the next level also. Consider a $15 entry 32 player event. You are now catering to the next level of player. You still will not have out of town money grubbers, but you may get a few of the in town top guys. But, the lower players can still get a piece of the pie, and many of them would like a chance to play the top guys.

With this one you have $480 in the pot. Again, provide for 12 happy winners. 1st place $85, 2nd $70, 3rd $60, 4th $50, 5th/6th $40, 7th/8th $30, and 9-12th $15. Gee, you even have $15 left to have someone run this one.

Both these events can be 8,9, or 10 ball. With 8 ball, a race to 3 is sufficient. With the 9 or 10 ball, a race to 4 does the trick.

Doubtful? Proven. Full events for 2 years running, turning people away. In a community of 7500.

I am so sick of people whining about tournaments. most are just whining because there is nowhere for them to make money. Face it, money is tough to make in this game. We need to create players in order to see the sport grow. Look at the leagues. Most leagues have lots of teams, each player paying $10 or more a week to play, and most have no realistic chance of winning. These are the players competition pool needs.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good promotion to me. Maybe a few room owners could learn something here.
 
Pool Tournaments

The Machine,
I wasnt attracted to this thread initially because of the title but being sick of something in this sport ranks up there as pretty important to me so I had to have a look to see just what this was about.

You I think are the single one person that seems to "get it". I ran a tournament and I begged the owner "Not to add money". He didnt listen and that killed the event for me. I would stand there all day for 10 hrs as people vied for the cash and listened to them complain about the rating I assigned them. The owner was paying me $50 dollars and all I wanted was some free practice time. At his rates I couldnt get much on $50 bucks a month but it was something. In the end I decided I could make more money doing just about anything since mowing grass netted me much more money.

So the root of all evil ---Money---killed the whole deal.

All I wanted was a good pool day on a Saturday and some appreciation for bringing in some locals.

Money killed it. I got so aggravated by it that I just couldnt deal with it because managing the money, trying to pay people for their place because they want to leave early, staying out all day for a paltry amount of money just to buy some practice time seemed as a waste of my time and it truly was.

Sure money is good but this is a great game and what part of spending time with your buddies isnt good? There isnt anything I would rather do.

If you dont have friends its a lonely walk through this life.

I agree with you 100%. You cant put a price tag on that.

Ditto my friend, just ditto.
 
Well, you're lucky. In one of the pool rooms I play out of, we can't get more than ten or twelve people to show up to play for the tournaments(9ball on Wednesday, 10ball on Saturday) handicapped, $10 fee, $5 side pot,normally some added money, loser pays one hour time . Winner usually pays $75-$100. I live in an area with 500-700k people in a 15 mile radius of the room. It's a clean 15 table room with good equipment. Just doesn't seem to be interest in pool around here except for the regulars. There are various leagues in the area, I guess they don't want to play on nine footers or without alcoholic beverages.
As far as playing for a cheap cue every week, that doesn't make much sense to me. Most people that play in tournaments have their own equipment of a lot better quality and don't need something like that. Cash would be better, IMO.
 
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bingo

claymont said:
I guess they don't want to play on nine footers or without alcoholic beverages.
.
Click to expand...

I am sorry to say that I think you hit the nail on the head. But since you have probably defined the problem ,you have probably defined the solution.
 
Looks to me that he's targeting the entry-level type crowd, so that's why the free entry-cue is suitable. Unless someone from the pool hall is running the show, I don't really see how someone could volunteer so much time. I don't think it's fair to consider the sport a not-for-profit organization. If it was, at least you'd get charity tax breaks!!

Oh, and I'd promote a t-shirt as the 2nd place price. heh.
 
I respect your post and you do have some good points. However, everything may not be as simple as it is where you live. I have seen some tournaments with structures that you thought would never fail. Such as $7 entry, and any drink you want free. This could be a long island that cost around $7. There are players, but they never get 32, and they pay out better then what you listed. Oh yea, they also have a $2000 tournament that 24 of the players will qualify for. Another bar that I know of used to add 50% of the money in the pot. $10 entry, race to 2. 12 players, 1st place would be $120. Not too bad.

Then I have seen places that charge a higher entry fee, take out way more in green fees, get many more players.....and pay out less!:mad: I just do not get it sometimes.

Again, I applaud you for you well thought out post, but to think this formula will work everywhere, and always draw 32 players seems unrealistic to me. There are probably around 5,000(not kidding) league players in a 15 mile radius to were I live, and we hardly can get 20 players to any tournaments. $500 added tournaments that draw 11 players...unbelieveable.
 
I honestly use to go out ever Tuesday or Wednesday, and play in one of the $5.00-$7.00 tournaments.

I knew my chances of winning were slip with a field of 15-25 players, unless I played well. The tournament was a test of skill for me, and I NEVER EXPECTED TO WIN. The tournament was a FUN thing I did once a week

What I expected was:

A tournament that started on time.

A Fair draw.

Money, and Places to be paid posted after the start of first round of play.

A TD who knew the RULES of the Game, and made FAIR IMPARTIAL DECISIONS when call upon to do so.

A tournament that flowed, and you did not have to sit around for hours when table were open to play on.

Clean Ball, and Clean Cloth.

Short players meeting before play starts to explain rule, so say it's ALL FOULS, or Q Ball Fouls ONLY, etc.

When the FUN STOPPED I quit going to play tournament weekly, the last time I played a night tournament was last MAY. I stopped because it was no longer fun.
 
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Pool players are always dealing with ''LITTLE'' things that always affect the outcome good/bad of their match. Pool inheritantly makes them picky and nitpicky and combine alcohol sometimes, with loudmouths and toss in a dose of ignorance and ego and you've got the basic mindset/preprogrammed of allot of wannabe pool playin' ball bangers that always want an advantage. Also in the food chain toss in the mix a couple players that usually win, and they too complain and want to jack the entry fees so they can make more, an on an on an on we go.
 
claymont said:
As far as playing for a cheap cue every week, that doesn't make much sense to me. Most people that play in tournaments have their own equipment of a lot better quality and don't need something like that. Cash would be better, IMO.
Click to expand...

I think the The Machine's point is the opposite of this. Cash is like a drug; the more you get, the more you want. I agree with The Machine. Every beginner starts playing pool for the same reason: it's FUN! But somewhere along the line, many get the idea that they should turn their beloved game into a part-time job and quit playing for the fun of it. So forget about those players and run tournaments for the fun players. And believe me, The Machine is right: the fun players are out there; you just have to find them. Sitting on your duff and waiting for them to discover you - as many room owners and TD's do - doesn't get the job done.

Roger
 
I really like the idea!

I think you should also run more typical paying tournaments for the players who are willing to risk a higher entry and play better players for the shot at more money.

I think having tourneys like this make it more feasible to ask say $25.00 entry for the "Players" tourneys. You would have smaller fields, but you wouldn't pay so deep either.

Great Idea!
 
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