I know nothing about cues - help me understand

Well this thread has taken several turns from its original topic.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think what watchez is getting at is he thinks cue making is not all that hard and the cues are over priced for the materials and labor that is put into them. I also think he feels there are some cue makers that have inflated egos because of what they know and are capable of doing.
In some cases that is true, but for the most part it is not.
Department stores sell designer clothing for way more that the materials and time is worth and people are willing to pay it.
Just about anything you want to buy has several price and quality levels from cheap to outrageously over priced.
Why would anyone expect the cue market to be any different?

I think what Watchez is going to find is that overall cue making is not hard but there are certain aspects of it that are.
He will find that even assembling parts takes time and just building the cue is not all there is to it.
The finishing is about as difficult as the building part.

I am sure Watchez will put together a nice cue.
I am not sure exactly what that will prove.
 
Offensive

MINDSEYE153 said:
Actually that's very offensive, and not funny at all!

Be Careful watchez.

Paul
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I'm just making light of the fact that he thinks it's so easy...I guess your not a Happy Gilmore fan;)

I find Watchez whole post offensive, smug, and a slap in the face to just about every cue maker that ever lived.
 
CamposCues said:
No offense, but it'll be funny if you accidentally tear off a finger or two building your Ragu cue. Then you can start making prosthetic limbs on your lathe...Chubbs Petersen.
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CamposCues said:
I'm just making light of the fact that he thinks it's so easy...I guess your not a Happy Gilmore fan;)

I find Watchez whole post offensive, smug, and a slap in the face to just about every cue maker that ever lived.
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Well Mr. Campos, I too find your post offensive. I have not wished ill will on anyone in this post. To hope that I tear off my fingers & you would find it funny is dispicable, to say the least. Hopefully one day we can meet in person at a trade show & you can further explain to me how and why you wish permanent harm on my body and life. I am sure that you really didn't mean it. Violence is not an answer, unfortunately it is used often to make up for someone's shortcomings.

Let's review - Tony Zinzola paid for and sent me all the parts I need. Willee invited me to his shop for any advice needed and a fishing trip to the pier. Michael Webb wished me well. Camposcues wishes I encounter severe pain and dismemberment. Hope I didn't leave anyone out. Oh yeah, Dave38 but I am thinking that him and Camposcues might be one and the same - or at least close friends.

I apologize if you find my original post offensive but it was not meant to be and don't know how you could comprehend it as such. I really should apologize that you weren't given special time in high school to improve your comprehension and our education system failed you. My guess is that you are a cue assembler yourself, not a cuemaker. Not ever hearing of CamposCues - I can't be sure. Checked out your website but with no pictures of your work I also can't be sure. Maybe you are jealous because only 81 people EVER have visited your site and hell, almost 4000 have viewed my thread alone.

Finally, make sure when TRYING to make your point you are comparing apples to apples, not to oranges. I was in the dark on what some cueassemblers were using in building their cues. Yes, upon finding it out I don't see the intense need to take 6 months - 2 years to build an assembled cue and the excuses that follow. Yes, there are designer clothes out there that are overpriced but some people like to pay for the prestige of wearing name brand clothing. If there is prestige of playing with say, a Camposcue assembly, then I apologize for missing out on the glory of that. And normally speaking, name brand clothing is higher quality and will last longer - a luxury automobile will last longer and offer higher level options. But for a cue assembler to charge the same amount for a cue maker - that is the difference. Again, it is comprehension that fails you. If I am going to pay $400 for a cue - intelligence would mean I would choose the cue maker model over the cue assembler model. Walmart does not try to put itself in the class of name brand clothing. KIA or Yugo do not try to put themselves in the same class as Mercedes or BMW. Apples and Oranges are in a different class. Campos, I think your problem might just be that you have no class.
 
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CamposCues said:
I'm just making light of the fact that he thinks it's so easy...I guess your not a Happy Gilmore fan;)

I find Watchez whole post offensive, smug, and a slap in the face to just about every cue maker that ever lived.
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As do I!

But, I'll make light of his cuemaking/assembling skills if/when it warrants it. Not the possability of someone being hurt or maimed.

Even after his smug, offensive slap in the face. I still wish watchez nothing but the best sucess in all his endeavors.

Paul
 
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Long One

watchez said:
Well Mr. Campos, I too find your post offensive. I have not wished ill will on anyone in this post. To hope that I tear off my fingers & you would find it funny is dispicable, to say the least. Hopefully one day we can meet in person at a trade show & you can further explain to me how and why you wish permanent harm on my body and life. I am sure that you really didn't mean it. Violence is not an answer, unfortunately it is used often to make up for someone's shortcomings.

Let's review - Tony Zinzola paid for and sent me all the parts I need. Willee invited me to his shop for any advice needed and a fishing trip to the pier. Michael Webb wished me well. Camposcues wishes I encounter severe pain and dismemberment. Hope I didn't leave anyone out. Oh yeah, Dave38 but I am thinking that him and Camposcues might be one and the same - or at least close friends.

I apologize if you find my original post offensive but it was not meant to be and don't know how you could comprehend it as such. I really should apologize that you weren't given special time in high school to improve your comprehension and our education system failed you. My guess is that you are a cue assembler yourself, not a cuemaker. Not ever hearing of CamposCues - I can't be sure. Checked out your website but with no pictures of your work I also can't be sure. Maybe you are jealous because only 81 people EVER have visited your site and hell, almost 4000 have viewed my thread alone.

Finally, make sure when TRYING to make your point you are comparing apples to apples, not to oranges. I was in the dark on what some cueassemblers were using in building their cues. Yes, upon finding it out I don't see the intense need to take 6 months - 2 years to build an assembled cue and the excuses that follow. Yes, there are designer clothes out there that are overpriced but some people like to pay for the prestige of wearing name brand clothing. If there is prestige of playing with say, a Camposcue assembly, then I apologize for missing out on the glory of that. And normally speaking, name brand clothing is higher quality and will last longer - a luxury automobile will last longer and offer higher level options. But for a cue assembler to charge the same amount for a cue maker - that is the difference. Again, it is comprehension that fails you. If I am going to pay $400 for a cue - intelligence would mean I would choose the cue maker model over the cue assembler model. Walmart does not try to put itself in the class of name brand clothing. KIA or Yugo do not try to put themselves in the same class as Mercedes or BMW. Apples and Oranges are in a different class. Campos, I think your problem might just be that you have no class.
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Let me start by saying that I have nothing against you. I just find your post a slap in the face to many hard working people.

Obviously I was joking about your fingers, hence the Chubbs Pertersen Happy Gilmore reference. In all seriousness you shouldn't go messing around with lathes and mills if you don't know what you are doing or losing fingers is a distinct possibility. I know I, and many others on this forum, have had near misses and probably some direct hits.

You probably haven't heard of my cues because I'm a hobiest at this point, just learning how to build cues. I haven't heard of you either, should I have? I don't claim to be anything I'm not. I'm in no hurry to become one of the greats because I have a day job and 2 little kids. I am, what you would probably call a cue assembler. I build my own point blanks, install my own veneers, put on my own wraps, but yes, I buy my joint pins, bumpers, and occasionally ss joints from a supplier. Sorry that I don't have the equipment to build joint pins, bumpers, and ss joint collars at this point. Actually, I'm not sorry because I like the way my cues play and those that own them like them also. Honestly I have no intention of ever building those particular components, what's the point? For those that have the equipment and money to do it, that is awesome and you can always count on me to buy your pins and collars.

As for my time in high school, I did just fine learning to comprehend things. Yes, the education system failed me all the way to a college degree in MIS and almost an MBA. I should be done in a couple semesters. Heck, they even let me develop software and program computers here at work. What does any of that mean, not much. None of it will help me "assemble" cues any better, that's for sure.

Being so good at reading comprehension, it is easy for me to see the tone and true intent of your posts. Your flowery writing skills have done little to hide it.

As for my web site, I developed it in .net, but the server that is hosting it is not .net compatible. I just threw out some html for giggles until I can rewrite the code in html. I have a full plate, so I just haven't had time to get to it. When I do, I'll be sure to let you know, so I can get your approval.

I too am sorry you missed out on playing with a Campos Cue assembly. Place an order and in 6 months - 2 years I will try to have it done for you.

What do you do in life that makes it so easy to look down on others and criticize how they do things?

Best of luck on your cue assembly endeavor, if anything I hope the experience humbles you a little...geez, now I'm just being silly.
 
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cue building

Interesting post. I have been reading for about an hour and needed a break after the 8th page.

Tony Zinzola, I commend you in trying to calm the storm. It was very nice of you to send material but I have some concerns for the industry.

Fact 1, What do we really know about his talents and knowledge of cue making.

Fact 2 How will we really know if it was made by him or a cue maker friend.

What repercussions could this have on cue makers. What if he really, truly makes a quality product? What will be said about cue makers.
? I am just a little concerned that all. This guy kind of sounds like me 2 years ago. As of yet I have not completed one complete cue yet. Although I have enough pieces to make over 50 complete cues. Its easy to get caught up in making 50 shafts, or 50 forearms, or 50 butts, or a kazillion ring parts with limited equipment. it takes a lot of time to zero everything in for an operation so I just make that part until I am blue in the face. LITTERLY!

One Last thing, I do not like the term "Master", Master cue maker, Master Plummer, Master electrician. ect. What does this really mean? Completing a compency test. Big deal. Its nothing more than a marketing scheme! there should be a distinction between builder/repair-er though. Just my opinion only
 
Dr. Campos, MBA MD Bachelor of Sciences & Cuemaking Artistry-

Again, we are back to comprehension.

I am not criticizing anyone except if they are calling themselves a cueMAKER when they are a cueASSEMBLER. If you are buying something from a cueMAKER you should pay more, if you are buying something from a cueASSEMBLER, you should pay less. You should also be advised that your cue is ASSEMBLED not MADE. Poster Manwon gave an excellent description of all the developers of cues out there. You can find it within this thread. I am not surprised that you either missed it or didn't retain it. I agree with his assessment and posted as such. Also, I never posted that a cueMAKER should be expected to make their own joint pins and bumpers. Please show me where I said that. Please do not put words in my mouth to attempt to make your point. That is nothing but showing weakness of mind and character. Again comprehension fails you. But if a cueMAKER is using a full splice blank and other premade parts then he is simply an ASSEMBLER. Look at the word closely and I bet you could come up with a good abbreviation for this person.

Seems to me that you, in your life, fall into the trap of job titles. Maybe that comes from your military background where they judge you on your title - not on your ability. By the way, I am a manager for a health care company in their financial department & have gotten here with no college degree. I do like to gamble though - and will be willing to take the SAT with you and bet $10 a point since you question my intelligence level. It has been a long time since I took it but think I would do again just fine. We could take the reading comprehension part only if you like - and bet $100 a point there.

Please post a pic of your finest MADE cue.

Watchez - maker of the Ragu cue
 
RoyL said:
being the shrewd businessman that Watchez is, he'll turn his finger's loss into a monetary gain by mass producing finger extensions like the ones Earl Strickland first invented but never patented
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The finger-longer was already invented by Professor Farnsworth on futurama.

bioFarnsworth.jpg
 
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Also, I never posted that a cueMAKER should be expected to make their own joint pins and bumpers. Please show me where I said that. Please do not put words in my mouth to attempt to make your point. That is nothing but showing weakness of mind and character. Again comprehension fails you. But if a cueMAKER is using a full splice blank and other premade parts then he is simply an ASSEMBLER

Well if a cue maker buys joint pins and bumpers aren't they buying pre made parts?
I don't recall everything I have read about this thread but one of the big problems you had was that some cue makers yes cue makers were charging a lot for cues that were made from blanks correct. The market determines whether the cues are overpriced or of fair value. Cues made from blanks still take time and just as much attention to detail. You don't just put them in the lathe and turn them down. You have make sure the points don't run off and that's not as easy as it may seem. You don't work for free do you. You also have to include how much time goes into the cue as well before you can say a cue is over priced. Ive seen blanks from James White who many would say is a master CUE MAKER should they only be $200?

This is not an attack. I know you a smart person who is quite good a arguing your side. I too find this thread a little offensive as well but I tried to keep it as respectful as possible.
 
watchez said:
Dr. Campos, MBA MD Bachelor of Sciences & Cuemaking Artistry-

Again, we are back to comprehension.

I am not criticizing anyone except if they are calling themselves a cueMAKER when they are a cueASSEMBLER. If you are buying something from a cueMAKER you should pay more, if you are buying something from a cueASSEMBLER, you should pay less. You should also be advised that your cue is ASSEMBLED not MADE. Poster Manwon gave an excellent description of all the developers of cues out there. You can find it within this thread. I am not surprised that you either missed it or didn't retain it. I agree with his assessment and posted as such. Also, I never posted that a cueMAKER should be expected to make their own joint pins and bumpers. Please show me where I said that. Please do not put words in my mouth to attempt to make your point. That is nothing but showing weakness of mind and character. Again comprehension fails you. But if a cueMAKER is using a full splice blank and other premade parts then he is simply an ASSEMBLER. Look at the word closely and I bet you could come up with a good abbreviation for this person.

Seems to me that you, in your life, fall into the trap of job titles. Maybe that comes from your military background where they judge you on your title - not on your ability. By the way, I am a manager for a health care company in their financial department & have gotten here with no college degree. I do like to gamble though - and will be willing to take the SAT with you and bet $10 a point since you question my intelligence level. It has been a long time since I took it but think I would do again just fine. We could take the reading comprehension part only if you like - and bet $100 a point there.

Please post a pic of your finest MADE cue.

Watchez - maker of the Ragu cue
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I've been following the thread and can't remember every detail. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth but let's be realistic, we all know what you are implying with your tone and ragu cue BS.

Army reference? Have you been doing homework on me? I could care less about titles. It's all about raising my family and having food on the table. I hate school and go because it's the only way to climb up in my company. That's the career I chose and I do what I must. If I could make a better living mopping floors or better yet cue "assembling" believe me I'd do it.

Also, let's be clear, I never questioned your intelligence level. From reading your posts it's clear you are intelligent. You questioned my education, knocking on my high school education. I just asked "What do you do in life that makes it so easy to look down on others and criticize how they do things?" There is no shame being a manager in a finance department, but as pampas as you are, I thought you might be an astronaut or maybe even Russell Crow.

The way you like to argue, I think you missed your calling as a lawyer:wink:

As for gambling, I don't have much to gamble with. Kids are expensive. As for the SATS, I could care less. I have never taken them. I did well on the ACTs. To be honest I'm pretty schooled out. If you are ever in Omaha I'll challenge you to a "Yo mamma so fat" contest, how would that be?

I think I've posted a pic or two of my cues on here, do some more homework and you'll probably run into them. I think I posted one with something to do with JWPetree's leather wraps. You can find it if you want, you're a smart guy.
 
I enjoy the thread

I really do. I think it makes a lot of good points on all sides of the argument. I was glad to find it again, because the last I heard it had been removed, which I felt was not right. I also became concerned about my personal cue and had to find out if my cue was assembled or made, and was relieved to find it was made!! Again, I'd like to thank everybody that has contributed to my enlightenment on the topic. Can't wait to hit with a Ragu cue.
 
Don?t Sweat it CamposCues. This guy is insecure! He is trying to validate his own intelligence by attacking others.

"By the way, I am a manager for a health care company in their financial department & have gotten here with no college degree." (he writes braggingly)

He is probably a business office manager! Anyone with a high School Diploma or GED can hold this title. I know because my wife is in charge of these type of people. (Health Facility Administrator) Boy, could I tell you stories about people in these positions. In fact, in some stated all you need to have is a high School diploma to be a Health Care Administrator who is in charge of the whole building or buildings. I know this from experience. Granted it is rare and few between but I know several people that are and making 6 figures plus.

He has insecurity written all over him.


PS Your momma is so poor, I saw her kicking a can down the road, I asked her what she was doing, she said that she was moving. hehehe! Sorry I couldnt resist, I heard that in some movie by Eddy Murphy (sp) not to long ago. Im just kidding! I take that back, it was in white man can't jump
 
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LosOsosCues said:
Well if a cue maker buys joint pins and bumpers aren't they buying pre made parts?
I don't recall everything I have read about this thread but one of the big problems you had was that some cue makers yes cue makers were charging a lot for cues that were made from blanks correct. The market determines whether the cues are overpriced or of fair value. Cues made from blanks still take time and just as much attention to detail. You don't just put them in the lathe and turn them down. You have make sure the points don't run off and that's not as easy as it may seem. You don't work for free do you. You also have to include how much time goes into the cue as well before you can say a cue is over priced. Ive seen blanks from James White who many would say is a master CUE MAKER should they only be $200?

This is not an attack. I know you a smart person who is quite good a arguing your side. I too find this thread a little offensive as well but I tried to keep it as respectful as possible.
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Thanks for your respectful reply. Others should try it. If you read this thread, you would have read that I used the analogy of a chef vs cuemaker. A chef might use bought pasta (even though I like to eat at places that make their own) but if he used Ragu spaghetti sauce, I don't think he could be a chef. In the same respect, a cueMAKER using a full splice blank is nothing more than a cueASSEMBLER. The spaghetti sauce is the key ingredient to your plate of pasta - that is my argument. Anyone can boil water and put pasta in until cooked. But to make your own great tasting sauce, that is the difference in whether or not I enjoy the pasta I eat. As you can see from my fatness, I enjoy a lot of pasta. The same correlation, IN MY MIND, is for a cue. The butt with the points is the cue ingredient to the cue along with the shaft. The rest is just eye candy. Remember, I said IN MY MIND before you or anyone else go arguing about how each component is so necessary. When I was educated further that almost EVERYTHING for a cue can be premade - I made my point that I could ASSEMBLE a cue myself.

Maybe I am wrong and you all will be happy. Maybe I will lose a few fingers, and Campos will be either happier.

By the way, lilbug, I am anything but insecure. Sorry you tried to pull that off. Please try again. I think you might be insecure as you brought this point up first. Most likely because your wife makes more money than you and works with people that make more money than you all day long.

I am not going to respond to bubsbug - First, he doesn't have the intellect to try to speak/debate with me. Second, he also has no class. I would hope no one else would lower themselves, kidding or not, to make comments about my mother.
 
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watchez said:
Thanks for your respectful reply. Others should try it. If you read this thread, you would have read that I used the analogy of a chef vs cuemaker. A chef might use bought pasta (even though I like to eat at places that make their own) but if he used Ragu spaghetti sauce, I don't think he could be a chef. In the same respect, a cueMAKER using a full splice blank is nothing more than a cueASSEMBLER. The spaghetti sauce is the key ingredient to your plate of pasta - that is my argument. Anyone can boil water and put pasta in until cooked.
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I tend to think of a full splice butt blank as being more like the pasta instead of the sauce. A chef might use premade spaghetti noodles, but it would be the sauce that makes his spaghetti special. And if he made his own noodles from scratch then it would even be more special. Yet either way it is still his recipe. He takes those noodles and then dresses it up with the sauce that he makes from scratch. He may still buy the herbs and maybe even use some canned tomato sauce instead of making his tomato sauce from scratch to go into his spaghetti sauce. But it is all his own special blend. So is he who starts with a point blank. He is buying the noodles and not the sauce.
 
watchez said:
-This project might take me several weeks only because I am on assignment for work right now & out of town during the week til the end of July. A few good weekends and I should have this done.
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Hey, did you get your stuff from Tony Z? How's the project coming along?

Any in progress photos?
 
What a JERK !!!!!!

Did this idiot ever make his cue ??????

I really want to see some pictures !

With a personality like his, I would like to pick him up at the Airport and drop him off in the neighborhoods that I work in, with only a Can-opener, a book of matches and a compass .


Tommyd1
 
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Why does anything that someone else thinks, have any value as to your work as a Qmaker? Damn, I know what it takes to make a Q & I make it. If you don't like what I make, DON'T BUY IT. I have a very long wait list for my Qs & I could care less what some pencil pusher has to say about OUR industry. I don't tell him NOT to use a machanical pencil to do his job, because it is not kosher. Why should I care what he nit pics, about what materials we use to do our trade? Make Qs & enjoy what you do...JER
 
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