I know nothing about cues - help me understand

[watchez]

Did this idiot ever make his cue ??????

I really want to see some pictures !

With a personality like his, I would like to pick him up at the Airport and drop him off in the neighborhoods that I work in, with only a Can-opener, a book of matches and a compass .


Tommyd1

Well Tommyd1, thanks for the polite reply. Surely I will honor your request to see some pictures since you seem like such a deserving fellow. Show me yours and I will show you mine. If you have read this entire post, I let it known that I am working in Indianapolis for the summer so unless the Hampton Inn will let me bring a lathe into my room, the cue project is going to have to wait. Tony Z was well aware of this, guess your comprehension failed you.

Second, I grew up in the streets of Brooklyn/East New York that you wouldn't get out of your car, let alone drive thru. But I am happy to know that there are tough guys like you still in the world to attempt to threaten me. Not sure what it had to do relative to my post and why you felt the need to throw that comment in there....and in your twisted mind, we will probably never know. I was in Detroit last winter & have been invited back this winter. I will be staying at the DAC again - I will check into to see if they have pool tables, my cue should be done by then so maybe you could come by and hit a few balls.

Finally, thanks for the negative rep. Coming from you and I did a quick read of some of your other worthwhile posts, it meant so much.

By the way, are you friends with Dave38?

 

[watchez]

Why does anything that someone else thinks, have any value as to your work as a Qmaker? Danm, I know what it takes to make a Q & I make it. If you don't like what I make, DON'T BUY IT. I have a very long wait list for my Qs & I could care less what some pencil pusher has to say about OUR industry. I don't tell him NOT to use a machanical pencil to do his job, because it is not kosher. Why should I care what he nit pics, about what materials we use to do our trade? Make Qs & enjoy what you do...JER

Do you use full splice pre made blanks like the one that Tony Z sent me? If so, I have a few minor questions before I begin.

 

[manwon]

No offense, but it'll be funny if you accidentally tear off a finger or two building your Ragu cue. Then you can start making prosthetic limbs on your lathe...Chubbs Petersen.

Then you can start making prosthetic limbs on your lathe...

George Balabushka lost a finger working with Machinery, and he made one out of wood. Many people that knew George never knew he was missing a finger. I even heard that he had one of his Famous wedding bands built wright into that finger and that he used Veneers for the finger nail.

Wow, I wonder what that finger would be worth today!!!!!!:scratchhead:

My point being, that if he did that he would certainly not be the first to do so!!!!!!! Hell it may even be a mark of excellence!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:

 

[Koop]

Second, I grew up in the streets of Brooklyn/East New York that you wouldn't get out of your car, let alone drive thru.

I had a good friend from East New York. If Tommy knew where you were from he probably wouldn't have made that statement.

Koop - knows it's a pre-requisite to be street smart and tough as nails to grow up there. Been there ONCE...that was enough

 

[watchez]

I had a good friend from East New York. If Tommy knew where you were from he probably wouldn't have made that statement.

Koop - knows it's a pre-requisite to be street smart and tough as nails to grow up there. Been there ONCE...that was enough

I was back in April and had to make a trip to Lenny & John's Pizza on Flatbush because they have the best pizza on earth. My cousin thought it was a good idea to then drive thru the old neighborhood at 2AM. It was sad as it has actually gotten worse. Didn't even recognize my house and couldn't pick it out from the back alley. I think that will probably be my last trip 'home'.

Next time I am in the city, Koop we will have to meet for a slice.

 

[Cuemaster98]

Here is one thing I think you are missing in your thought process since you admittedly know nothing about cues. These premade blanks have not been turned to size and you have to turn them down to your custom taper. Yes I said "CUSTOM taper" as it is your own taper. They are far too large to sand to size. They must be precision cut to size. So your above assumption will not work. You think it is easier than it is. They do not have rings on them so you have to install your own style of rings, joint pin, butt plate, weight bolt and bumper as well as applying finish. A final sanding size shaft blank is not ready to go either. You have to install joint, rings, tip and ferrule and sand it or cut and sand it to exact taper you like. Ragu sauce only needs heated up and I can understand since you know little about cue making you assumed producing a finished cue out of a blank was about as easy as heating a can of spagetti sauce, but it is much more complicated than that. You have to be capable of building a cue from scratch out of a single piece of wood to have the skills to make a cue out of a oversized blank. And to hold the points anywhere close to even, you have to be skilled beyond that point. So in my book Varney and anyone else using blanks are real cuemakers and deserve more respect than some of these threads have shown. Your term "PREMADE BLANK" is misleading as it is not premade. It is glued up and rough turned, not made ready to apply finish to and call a cue as "premade" would imply. There are cue kits and even guitar kits out there that people can assemble with almost no tooling, sand a little, stain and finish and call it their own cue or guitar. That is not what is happening here with a rough blank. But I do understand with your limited knowledge, why you thought so. Now if you want to pursue the "Ragu line" of cues here is the form to buy your blanks in: Everything turned to size with all parts glued on and ready for your finishing touches. That is a "Cue Kit." Varney does not use a cue kit. He simply uses a blank for one step in his cue making process on lower end cues.

TAP! TAP!

watchez, if you are sincere about learning...and if it does sound and look so simple to you. I'll be happy to sell you a full splice blank and shaft dowel for you to show us how easier it is to make a cue. Actually, I have some deal for you right now on ebay...just search full splice blank. Once you finish the cue...probably with sandpaper or whatever tools you were thinking of using to make your cue...come back to this forum with picture and tell us again how easier it was for you to build a cue from a blank.

Just don't be too quick to judge cue builder unless you have tried converting a blank yourself and then I think you will probably appreciate the skills and time involved to convert a blank into a custom cue. Btw, Yes it's a custom cue. Give the same full splice blank to two different cue builders and you have two totally different custom cues. The feel, hit and balance and taper will be totally different. I Know because my full splice blanks have been used and built by all different level of cue builders.

Btw, you ever wonder why the cue builder call a blank a "Blank" or a painter calling his canvas a "Canvas".

Regards,
Duc.

 

[Tony Zinzola]

Duc -

He already has everything he needs to build a cue. He said it will take some time as he's not around much this summer. When I offered to send him the supplies, I assumed he would not be able to even assemble the cue from a pre-made blank. After going back and forth with him in PM's, I am sure he will get this made.

 

[Cuemaster98]

Ok....now that's funny!!

How can you possibly tops this...do you even know what this is???

Have you ever heard the expression, "You'll never eat more salt than someone older than you?"

To make the cue that you say you will top...you will probably need take the same amount of years that Kevin have put into his custom cue. Do you know how long it may have taken Kevin to perfect the hit and feel of his cue? or any other cuemaker for the that matter? I wish is was as easy as Ragu sauce ....I would be making millions by now. I like to wager that you probably wouldn't be able make a cue like this until maybe 2-3 years. This is assuming that you quit your work and start your career in building cue and work full time. Hmm...maybe I'm wrong...I remember you said you have some woodworking experience and even won some award for it.

How long do you think it will take you to top this? I'm sure you can do it but it would only come with time and experience. Good Luck.


Regards,
Duc.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I can top this & honestly gives me a quality to shoot for:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=104956

Thanks,
Watchez - maker of the Ragu cue

 

[Koop]

I was back in April and had to make a trip to Lenny & John's Pizza on Flatbush because they have the best pizza on earth. My cousin thought it was a good idea to then drive thru the old neighborhood at 2AM. It was sad as it has actually gotten worse. Didn't even recognize my house and couldn't pick it out from the back alley. I think that will probably be my last trip 'home'.

Next time I am in the city, Koop we will have to meet for a slice.

Uggghhh...

Funny story. My buddy from Maspeth and I were driving around one night and got lost ( I blame him ). 3AM and we jump out to take a leak. Get home and his brother, who is a housing cop in the Bronx, nearly killed us. He said, "do you know where you were?" We were cruising through Brownsville and Bed Stuy

Let me know next time you're in the area. I'm up in Boston but would love to meet up.

 

[WilleeCue]

Ok....now that's funny!!

How can you possibly tops this...do you even know what this is???

Yes this thread is funny. :rotflmao:
Someone that first admits he knows little about the process has offered to 'enlighten' all the cue makers here about how easy it is to make a cue.
I dont think it is all that hard but you aint gonna do it without the proper tools and skills and I have yet to see this "pre-made cue kit" that just needs assembly as some people here are talking about.

Come to think of it, that is exactly what we cue makers sell.
Pre-made cue parts and all the buyer needs to do is screw the shaft onto the butt and he has assembled a completely finished cue. :thumbup:

The process of making a cue from a full splice blank (or a house cue) is the same as making it from a turning square of any other wood so I seriously doubt the "ragu" cue will ever see the light of day.
Not without MORE help from a real cue maker.

But that was not really the point of this thread.
The real point and purpose is controversy, nothing more than argument for personal amusement.:embarrassed2:

 

[watchez]

Duc -

He already has everything he needs to build a cue. He said it will take some time as he's not around much this summer. When I offered to send him the supplies, I assumed he would not be able to even assemble the cue from a pre-made blank. After going back and forth with him in PM's, I am sure he will get this made.

Thanks for all your support Tony. The blank and shaft dowel have been sitting on my kitchen counter aging, right where my girlfriend left it. Aging is good right? A friend that works in a body shop and fixed my Pathfinder for me last year when I backed into a pole is going to give me some autopaint clear to use on the finish. Thanks for that suggestion as well Tony.

I saw that BlackHeart sells a secret mixture to use on shafts and thought maybe he would like to send me a bottle to use on my project. Every little bit would help. I got some good ideas to put some diamond inlays in the points like he has in his cues so I hope no one is upset if I steal a few ideas. I am sure that nothing is all that original anyways.

I am still waiting for something from Willee to put into my mix but doubt I will get anything. He sounds like his feelings are still a little hurt. I thought we were past that.

 

[WilleeCue]

I am still waiting for something from Willee to put into my mix but doubt I will get anything. He sounds like his feelings are still a little hurt. I thought we were past that.

No way are my feelings hurt and I would like to see you complete this project but my gut feeling is that you still do not completely understand what is really involved with finishing that cue.
I think you will either give up or seek out help from another cue maker just like the fella that did this same thing a few years back.

Here is what I will throw in for you just to show my heart is i the right place.
When you get the cue butt sanded down to just a tad over its final size send it to me and I will cut in the pockets and provide the inlay pieces and send them back to you to be glued in and sanded down flat with the surface of the cue.
When you are ready to do that we can talk about what and where.

 

[watchez]

No way are my feelings hurt and I would like to see you complete this project but my gut feeling is that you still do not completely understand what is really involved with finishing that cue.
I think you will either give up or seek out help from another cue maker just like the fella that did this same thing a few years back.

Here is what I will throw in for you just to show my heart is i the right place.
When you get the cue butt sanded down to just a tad over its final size send it to me and I will cut in the pockets and provide the inlay pieces and send them back to you to be glued in and sanded down flat with the surface of the cue.
When you are ready to do that we can talk about what and where.

That sounds good but is that a trap to say that I got outside help with the project. I actually had other ideas besides the standard diamond,

 

[Retail1LO]

I'm wondering what thoughts people are going to have when this guy takes everything that's given to him...and turns out a decent cue on his first go. I think it's a good project. I appreciate everyone who's gone out of their way to make this happen. I wish there wasn't so much mudslinging...on all sides...but it is what it is...I suppose.

The cuemakers I've had the privelege of knowing over the years, for the most part, have been amongst the finest examples of humanity I've met. They work hard...they're generous with their time and knowledge...and they sacrifice a great deal of their free time to provide us all with something we can enjoy...even if we can't shoot too well. It all adds to the experience of being at the table...and gives us SOMETHING to be proud of.

I'm hoping watch, regardless of his results, will have some true insight into what goes into the completion of a cue, even when starting with someone else's blank.

I think he'll, that even if it's relatively easy for HIM...that it's still important to remember that at one point in hislife, albeit at a young age, he was a state champion woodworker. He has SOME background and experience...and if it's stuck with him...then I'm sure he'll pick up a lot of this just fine. From what Tony says...it sounds like he'll do fine. And I trust Tony's word to the end of the earth.

 

[Cuemaster98]

Duc -

He already has everything he needs to build a cue. He said it will take some time as he's not around much this summer. When I offered to send him the supplies, I assumed he would not be able to even assemble the cue from a pre-made blank. After going back and forth with him in PM's, I am sure he will get this made.

Hmm...not sure if this was a wise thing to do especially when he did clearly state he doesn't know what he's doing or if he was even at all interested. I was thinking he's just mocking everyone for the amusement of this thread.... I would have at least charged him for the material just so we know he is serious. How's he going to learn if he get them for free? Free lesson and advise is more than enough for anyone to start.

"In the same respect, a cueMAKER using a full splice blank is nothing more than a cueASSEMBLER." Watchez

I think a cuebuilder using a full splice blank may or may not be an amateur "Cue Assembler". Just like saying a chef is not a chef because he use ragu sauce. Who know what delicious dish he will be dishing out with that sauce.

In any case, I think Watchez may be a little confused with the difference or lack of difference between the term "cue builder" and "cue assembler". All cue builders assemble cues in one form or another either with components they build or components they purchased.

I think the question should be more about the different between a professional cue builder vs "amatuer" (wanta be) like me . A professional cue builder understand what he's putting together where as an amatuer "cue assembler" like me just pray that components I put together will make the cue play good. It's all about level of experience and time invested..just like pool. You have pro and you have amatuers....how can anyone expect an ametuer to become a pro overnight?

I guess maybe that why we use the word "Conversion" to distinguish the type of cue a builder builds based on his choice of components or requirements for a cue. So, anyone can be a cue builder but it come down to whether that builder is a professional or an amatuer. You of course would expect to pay the professional more money for his conversion vs a conversion from me. (I'm almost finish making myself a pretty mean hitting stick with my components of course...pics will be posted on the gallery).

Regards,
Duc.

 

[Tony Zinzola]

If he wasn't interested, he wouldn't have put up money for me to hold until the cue is complete or he gives up.

 

[watchez]

Hmm...not sure if this was a wise thing to do especially when he did clearly state he doesn't know what he's doing or if he was even at all interested. I was thinking he's just mocking everyone for the amusement of this thread.... I would have at least charged him for the material just so we know he is serious. How's he going to learn if he get them for free? Free lesson and advise is more than enough for anyone to start.

NOTE TO CUEMASTER98 aka ripvanwinkle- if you want to join the discussion, I suggest you read the entire post before you start spouting out ideas, thoughts, and suggestions. This is the second time you have embarrassed yourself.

FYI, I paid Tony Z $50 for the parts. I paid him by Paypal and I believe he willl confirm that I made quick payment. Quick - that is a word that cuemakers don't use too often so I am not sure you will know the meaning of that word.

Tony Z seems like a great guy. The $50 was just a guarantee that I was serious. He doesn't really need the money. Either do I so he can keep it or donate it to his favorite charity.

 

[watchez]

"In the same respect, a cueMAKER using a full splice blank is nothing more than a cueASSEMBLER." Watchez

I think a cuebuilder using a full splice blank may or may not be an amateur "Cue Assembler". Just like saying a chef is not a chef because he use ragu sauce. Who know what delicious dish he will be dishing out with that sauce.



I think the question should be more about the different between a professional cue builder vs "amatuer" (wanta be) like me . A professional cue builder understand what he's putting together where as an amatuer "cue assembler" like me just pray that components I put together will make the cue play good. It's all about level of experience and time invested..just like pool. You have pro and you have amatuers....how can anyone expect an ametuer to become a pro overnight?

Also, remember that the quality of a cue is all preference. For example, no offense Willee, I think that the bright plastic cue that you make once a year is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. But Willee claims they sell like hotcakes so someone must like them. Some people want loads of inlays, some want a classic look. Then there is the hit of a cue, some people want a stiff hit. Some like a meucci. Some like a non deflection shaft, some don't. So please do not pre-judge my cue and how it hits or looks - sounds like you already have your mind made up. Don't matter anyways, someone like you doesn't deserve to see it. Please put me on ignore so when I post the pics, you can't see them.

 

[WilleeCue]

That sounds good but is that a trap to say that I got outside help with the project. I actually had other ideas besides the standard diamond,

No trap.
Most inlays are decoration and not really a functional part of a cue.
As long as you do not take credit for the work other than gluing them in and sanding them down, I see no foul in you having the inlay pockets cut in as you do not have the equipment to do that.
Bout the same as starting with a full splice blank except the full splice has a function besides decoration.
The real work will be shaping everything down, installing the pin, joint rings, butt cap, bumper, fitting the shaft, then applying some sort of a finish.

Like I said, when you have the cue ready for that, call me.

 

[WilleeCue]

Hmm...not sure if this was a wise thing to do especially when he did clearly state he doesn't know what he's doing or if he was even at all interested. I was thinking he's just mocking everyone for the amusement of this thread....

I think this thread started off that way but I think Watchez is starting to get a bit interested in just what he can do with it.
I think he has turned it into a challenge for himself and is thinking it just might be cool to have a cue that he put so much work into.
No matter how it turns out I bet it is a cue he will keep ... if and when it is finished.