I never hit center ball no matter the shot

I was told a long time ago "center's for suckers".

Jimbojim said:
Anybody else?

I'll always put a hair of outside (or inside if Im trying to do something for position) on a shot the could be played with dead center beside straight in shots. If I wanna stop it, I'll play lower but not as hard.

I feel when hitting center ball it undercuts the shot because of friction.

I have always played like that and know some pros who do that also.
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Yes, all pros play this way with either "TOO" (touch of outside) or "TOI" (touch of inside) - we're not necessarily doing this to "spin" the ball, because spin is another variable - the main exceptions is straight in shots, slow rolled shots and "push" shots.

I was told a long time ago "center's for suckers".....and it's proven to be true. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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mortuarymike-nv said:
In other words you never need the cue ball to deflect at a 90 degree angle.................
Makes no sense to me why you would want to not be able have that option.

I like hitting the center of the cue ball. That means I don't have to shoot all the hi risk fancy stuff that sooner or later bit everyone.

I am no pro so maybe I should comment.
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In my experience the little helping english I use doesn't change the tangent line. It might change the angle the CB takes off the rail, but unless I'm using so much side that I actually have to change my contact point on the OB to allow for the throw the tangent line is not affected by the side I use. It would be affected by using high or low, but not side.
 
thats hilarious, i was thinking the same excact thing today, i havent hit center ball in months, i missed a critical shot today at center ball ( i still won $80:thumbup:), im gonna spent the entire saturday, 6 hours minimum straight up center ball.
 
ALL of these must change to improve

BRussell said:
There are so many new factors introduced that can affect your shot when you spin a ball that it's probably not a good idea to use it unless you really need to for position.
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At the beginner level this is true, and doesn't need to change until you reach a 5-7 rating imho.

Once you get "stuck" at a certain level you are forced to change your ideas, thoughts, and attitudes to progress. Part of this process is changing the philosophy about shot speed, deflection, spin, grip, and follow through. ALL of these must change to improve, some just a little, and others quite a bit.'The Game's your Teacher'
 
I think it's important to note...

CJ Wiley said:
At the beginner level this is true, and doesn't need to change until you reach a 5-7 rating imho.

Once you get "stuck" at a certain level you are forced to change your ideas, thoughts, and attitudes to progress. Part of this process is changing the philosophy about shot speed, deflection, spin, grip, and follow through. ALL of these must change to improve, some just a little, and others quite a bit.'The Game's your Teacher'
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CJ, I think it's also important to note to those who think spin isn't necessary, that there are a lot of aspects of the game that are impossible without spin.

Changing rebound angles on banks and draw/follow shots, throwing in combos while still controlling where the CB goes, etc...

This is especially important when playing games like one pocket where bank angle changes open up a whole range of new shots...

This is all ADVANCED level pool and strategy though and like you said, beginner to intermediate players shouldn't be worried about this yet.

Jaden
 
"The game's already perfect, we just have discover how to express that perfection".

Yes, spin is necessary when you need to change the angle off a cushion, or curving the ball....I'd be careful spinning combinations though.....this is a "tricky business"....Corey Deuel said I made long combinations better than anyone he'd seen and my cardinal rule was not to spin them.....I would, of course, favor the inside of the cue ball to create a "zone". I throw my shots slightly off the {perfect} straight line, and whether we throw a ball, hit a ball, or kick a ball, it's impossible to establish a perfectly straight line......so why use it as the foundation? I certainly advice against it.

Playing one pocket requires more spin, however, the shot speed (on the average) is less, so it's essential to understand how to "throw" banks and finesse shots consistently. I still try not to use more spin than needed, however, it is more necessary playing games other than rotation games.

There's many levels to playing great pool and it's important to keep improving because "if we're not getting better, we're probably getting worse".......and this is why allowing thought, ideas and attitudes to evolve watching true champion players is important in every player's development. "The game's already perfect, we just have discover how to express that perfection".....and such is life. 'The Game is the Teacher'


Jaden said:
CJ, I think it's also important to note to those who think spin isn't necessary, that there are a lot of aspects of the game that are impossible without spin.

Changing rebound angles on banks and draw/follow shots, throwing in combos while still controlling where the CB goes, etc...

This is especially important when playing games like one pocket where bank angle changes open up a whole range of new shots...

This is all ADVANCED level pool and strategy though and like you said, beginner to intermediate players shouldn't be worried about this yet.

Jaden
Click to expand...
 
In regards to combos...

CJ Wiley said:
Yes, spin is necessary when you need to change the angle off a cushion, or curving the ball....I'd be careful spinning combinations though.....this is a "tricky business"....Corey Deuel said I made long combinations better than anyone he'd seen and my cardinal rule was not to spin them.....I would, of course, favor the inside of the cue ball to create a "zone". I throw my shots slightly off the {perfect} straight line, and whether we throw a ball, hit a ball, or kick a ball, it's impossible to establish a perfectly straight line......so why use it as the foundation? I certainly advice against it.

Playing one pocket requires more spin, however, the shot speed (on the average) is less, so it's essential to understand how to "throw" banks and finesse shots consistently. I still try not to use more spin than needed, however, it is more necessary playing games other than rotation games.

There's many levels to playing great pool and it's important to keep improving because "if we're not getting better, we're probably getting worse".......and this is why allowing thought, ideas and attitudes to evolve watching true champion players is important in every player's development. "The game's already perfect, we just have discover how to express that perfection".....and such is life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

I was talking more about balls that are frozen or close to frozen that don't aim straight at the hole.

knowing which side to hit the lead ball on is important, but sometimes if you can't hit it as much on that side as is ideal, you can still throw it in using spin or miss it with the wrong spin...

Jaden
 
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MAKE the table and layout accommodate YOUR SHOT

Jaden said:
I was talking more about balls that are frozen or close to frozen that don't aim straight at the hole.

knowing which side to hit the lead ball on is important, but sometimes if you can't hit it as much on that side as is ideal, you can still throw it in using spin...

Jaden
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Sure, spin plays an important role when needed. To be a complete player it's vital to understand how to make the cue ball "do what you think" - however, it's also prudent to develop a game that produces the same type shot time after time, after time.

Consistency is doing the same thing to achieve similar results in pool. The common way of looking at the game is to "do what the table tells you to do" (using spin and speed to accomplish this).

The other way (that I recommend) is to develop a shot that you like to hit and MAKE the table and layout accommodate YOUR SHOT. This is not possible to do all the time, although if applied properly you can hit about 90% of your shots in a similar fashion.

I know you, Jaden, know these things, just expanding on what's already been said.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Yes, spin is necessary when you need to change the angle off a cushion, or curving the ball....I'd be careful spinning combinations though.....this is a "tricky business"....Corey Deuel said I made long combinations better than anyone he'd seen and my cardinal rule was not to spin them.....I would, of course, favor the inside of the cue ball to create a "zone". I throw my shots slightly off the {perfect} straight line, and whether we throw a ball, hit a ball, or kick a ball, it's impossible to establish a perfectly straight line......so why use it as the foundation? I certainly advice against it.

Playing one pocket requires more spin, however, the shot speed (on the average) is less, so it's essential to understand how to "throw" banks and finesse shots consistently. I still try not to use more spin than needed, however, it is more necessary playing games other than rotation games.

There's many levels to playing great pool and it's important to keep improving because "if we're not getting better, we're probably getting worse".......and this is why allowing thought, ideas and attitudes to evolve watching true champion players is important in every player's development. "The game's already perfect, we just have discover how to express that perfection".....and such is life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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Here we go again .... That wasn't Cory, that was me .... a year ago, here at post # 11

Who want's to be my lawyer ... I want my 4 ... I mean 5 bucks!
 
Jimbojim said:
Anybody else?

I'll always put a hair of outside (or inside if Im trying to do something for position) on a shot the could be played with dead center beside straight in shots. If I wanna stop it, I'll play lower but not as hard.

I feel when hitting center ball it undercuts the shot because of friction.

I have always played like that and know some pros who do that also.
Click to expand...

Almost no players in the history of Pocket Billiards ever have consistently hit center-ball or could even find it.

Very few have mastered it. Many think they hit center-ball but they really don't. I believe Cole Dickson was spoken of as one of the best at it.

ONB
 
CJ Wiley said:
You said I make combinations better than anyone? ;) we didn't "real eyes" you were watching.....I stand corrected.
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CJ ... it was the second part of the quote ... ya know the "cardinal rule" part ... the not to use english on combinations part, shoot I even explained why not to. I'll bet that's gonna be in your next DVD ... I've been plagiarized so much I think I'm gonna hold out for 8 bucks.
 
Centerball is a must, imho, and a shot that requires constant attention.
Hit a few thousand centerball stop shots. A shot that returns instant feedback. Hit this shot even the slightest bit off center and watch as the cueball spins a little, or rolls off. or throws the object ball into the rail.

This kind of shot will cure whatever ails a person, everything needs to be in line from the ground up. cue delivery needs to be straight and true. If any part of the stroke is wiggly, or jerky, or even if feet are in the wrong place, a person will have trouble with this shot.

I am not saying a person needs to hit this shot in a game, go ahead and spin it in or with a touch of something.
I am saying the ability to hit true centerball will give you an edge to hit all other shots a little more accurate.

aside from all that:
True centerball just might be the most difficult shot in the game.
Anyone who has ever said "I never get unintended spin" please make a video of ten or so long centerball stop shots. I would love to see it done.
thx.
steven
 
hitting center ball is like the bowler that tries to throw a bowling ball straight

3andstop said:
CJ ... it was the second part of the quote ... ya know the "cardinal rule" part ... the not to use english on combinations part, shoot I even explained why not to. I'll bet that's gonna be in your next DVD ... I've been plagiarized so much I think I'm gonna hold out for 8 bucks.
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I've said this one before, see if you can find yourself saying the same - "hitting center ball is like the bowler that tries to throw a bowling ball straight ever time - it works ok at first, however, to improve you must "move the ball" off the straight line to find the "the pocket". - this is done with spin in bowling and deflection and/or spin in pool.

leaving10pin2.jpg
 
FREE VIDEO running 15 balls "beating the ghost" with TOI

Straightpool_99 said:
Who are these people who run racks of rotation pool without any sidespin, anyway?! I don't think I have ever seen anyone like that! I play with very good players, and I watch a lot of matches on youtube as well. I don't think I have ever seen a championship caliber player who stays away from sidespin..
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The only way I can beat the 15 ball ghost is using TOI and NOT spinning the ball unless I have to change an angle off a rail. Efren plays very similar and we've played many, many, hours together in tournaments AND for large amounts of ca$h.

Here's a LINK to see what I'm talking about on a FREE VIDEO <-----click here

HERE"S ANOTHER ONE - 29 BALLS IN ONE POCKET USING THE NO SPIN TECHNIQUE
 
Here's a video of ten semi long stop shots with no spin...

driven said:
Centerball is a must, imho, and a shot that requires constant attention.
Hit a few thousand centerball stop shots. A shot that returns instant feedback. Hit this shot even the slightest bit off center and watch as the cueball spins a little, or rolls off. or throws the object ball into the rail.

This kind of shot will cure whatever ails a person, everything needs to be in line from the ground up. cue delivery needs to be straight and true. If any part of the stroke is wiggly, or jerky, or even if feet are in the wrong place, a person will have trouble with this shot.

I am not saying a person needs to hit this shot in a game, go ahead and spin it in or with a touch of something.
I am saying the ability to hit true centerball will give you an edge to hit all other shots a little more accurate.

aside from all that:
True centerball just might be the most difficult shot in the game.
Anyone who has ever said "I never get unintended spin" please make a video of ten or so long centerball stop shots. I would love to see it done.
thx.
steven
Click to expand...

Hey Steven...

I figured I would take you up on your challenge real quick.

I shot ten shots rather long, no side spin stop shots. I missed one, lol, the second time I shot the four, it went center pocket, but the pockets on my table are not really the right ones and the way I tightened them up (4" corners) makes the pockets sag, so if you hit center pocket they will sometimes pop right back out of the pocket.

The shots that don't stop directly are because of them not being a perfectly straight shot. I could've just aimed them straight anyways but with 4" pockets, they probably would've rattled out like that first four I shot.

They still don't have any unintended spin on them.

Jaden

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzPpL0RVuKU&feature=youtu.be
 
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