I never use the diamonds. How many of you do?

Bob Jewett said:
I think it's a combination of the depth of the diamonds and the profile chosen for the rubber. I think both of those came from Michael Phelan, so they may have been coordinated.
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I would have thought (without knowing anything more about the subject) that Gaspard-Gustave de Coriolis would have known about the effect.
But He and Michael seem to have existed contemporaneous with each other so maybe a bit of cross-pollination went on.
Wikipedia does not seem to know.
 
Michael Phelan was obviously using diamonds as shown on page 83 of his first book (and diagram on page 87)
books.google.com

The Game of Billiards

books.google.com
He was, however, not compensating for the set-back of the diamonds in the figures he drew.

He was also very learned in the use of spin (in all 4 directions), force-follow and big-draw
 
MitchAlsup said:
The diamonds were placed exactly "that far back" for exactly those reasons. ...
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I think the position of the diamonds was at least as likely to have been determined by where they could be placed reasonably and esthetically. But I think the real determiner was the location of the single pair of similar markings for the baulk line on English-style billiards tables.

Do you have a written reference saying Phelan had any method in his placement?
 
Scott Lee taught me 3 rail diamond system 20 years ago . It actually changed my total outlook on the game. I shared it with a fellow player & in return he showed me a 2 rail diamond kick . Both were very simple & only take a few shots to dial it in . It’s too bad it took so long to find this out. I hope to pick up a few more systems as I now have a table again!
Good lessons are quite valuable & keep your interest in improvement going
 
MitchAlsup said:
The system gives a visual indication of how the naturally rolling ball arcs forward from the rail reflection.

I have been looking for a *.bmp, *.gif, *,jpg of a table with diamonds, proper pocket sizes, and nothing "on" the table so I can draw the drawing necessary to show how it works. But so far, I have run into no tables so drawn.
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https://billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/instructional_diagrams_BW_no_fill.pdf this site has a lot of different diagrams, great resource
 
Jack Fate said:
Scott Lee taught me 3 rail diamond system 20 years ago . It actually changed my total outlook on the game. I shared it with a fellow player & in return he showed me a 2 rail diamond kick . Both were very simple & only take a few shots to dial it in . It’s too bad it took so long to find this out. I hope to pick up a few more systems as I now have a table again!
Good lessons are quite valuable & keep your interest in improvement going
Click to expand...

Tor Lowery has a great video that steps through most of the various systems. I think it helps to be aware of many of them as no one works perfect in all situations. I won't pretend to know anything, but the diamond systems really help me double check my intuition on basic one rail kicks and are a life saver on 2+ rail kicks.
 
I look where I want the center of the ball to be when it hits a rail. Then I look at the diamonds close by and get a reference from those, before I walk back to my shooting location, find that exact center-of-ball spot, and give her a go.


Jeff Livingston
 
There are those that say no two tables bank (or kick) alike. And they are correct.

But if you are not using diamonds, how can you accurately make the determination that one particular table banks long or short.... especially when it might only be a half an inch difference on the first rail? It would all be guesswork with no tangible results.

That half inch difference on the first rail will equate to several inches after coming off the third rail. You have to have a reference point to start with.

Where the feel part comes in is the speed of the shot. A benchmark speed needs to be used to compare one table to another. If you hit hard, obviously the bank will go short. And new or old cloth has it effect.

Do professional bank pool players use the diamonds for reference? Not necessary a Diamond system, but at least using them for reference?

And are the any Instructors that teach kicks and banks NOT using the diamonds?
 
buckshotshoey said:
There are those that say no two tables bank (or kick) alike. And they are correct.

But if you are not using diamonds, how can you accurately make the determination that one particular table banks long or short.... especially when it might only be a half an inch difference on the first rail? It would all be guesswork with no tangible results.

That half inch difference on the first rail will equate to several inches after coming off the third rail. You have to have a reference point to start with.

Where the feel part comes in is the speed of the shot. A benchmark speed needs to be used to compare one table to another. If you hit hard, obviously the bank will go short. And new or old cloth has it effect.

Do professional bank pool players use the diamonds for reference? Not necessary a Diamond system, but at least using them for reference?

And are the any Instructors that teach kicks and banks NOT using the diamonds?
Click to expand...
Snooker coaches😉
 
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I had a 1966 victor 10 ft snooker table, had no rail sights on it. We actually played snooker, 9 ball, and 1p on it for a couple of years with my Brunswick Centenial balls. The damn corner pockets on it were 3 3/16". Here is a video I took where I just placed all the balls on a grid and just shot them off. It's the only time i ever video'd anything and I really don't even remember why now, probably just wanted to see stroke from various angles or something. I eventually replaced the rail rubbers and recut all the pockets for pool and then it was quite fun to play 1 pocket and 14.1 on. I took it down when I moved to my current home and ran across a 9 ft diamond Professional with matching light so I put that in the new house and sold the 10 footer. That 10 footer was a beast though, even with like 5" pockets, which was as small as I could make work with the proper pocket angles of 141 and 14 degrees. I think 1p on any size tables creates a new set of challenges. When I redid the rails I added sights at the proper 14". Was really fun to play on.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1406685212960636
 
If every pool player played, straight rail, balkline, 3 cushion billiards, etc. they will become much better players in a shorter time.

It's more than most people realize. Is the table,rails playing, long ,short, or true?
Or going in or out of the diamond, for a kick, bank, etc. Getting close doesn't count.
Making a kick or billiard on the face or coming in the back door is a real thing, precision at its best. Navigating through a lot of traffic is not that easy without math as a check valve.

Try playing rail pool and see how well you play without math. Set up a rack of 8 ball and using only 3 cushions you have to pocket the 8 ball in a corner. You can play it with one or 2 rails.
Play at least 10 games because even a blind squirrel can find a nut.

I compare it to driving. If everyone drove a tractor trailer for a year they would understand the rules of the road and become a better driver, although there are some bad truck drivers.

Play by feel, (learn the math), use all the tools available and put it together.
With a click of a mouse, in the pool hall, or instruction, it's all there and easy to learn.
Without desire and passion to advance your game , you could be dead before you run a rack, or actually get in the money in a small local tourney.

With 1/2 a brain, math knowledge straight stroke, and focus = very good player.

Cue ball knowledge and knowledge in general.
As the saying goes...............Knowledge is power.
 
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