I Used to Use a System But Now....

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The better I get the easier is it for me to see the shot line.

For about the past 5 or so years, when it comes to aiming -- I simply overlap the contact point and occasionally use the double the distance method on the fuller hits as a double check until I get locked in.

Lately, I've noticed I dont spend nearly the same amount of time on aiming as I used to. It seems I just see the shot. So I'm wondering is there anybody still in this forum that has graduated away from aiming systems altogether? I'm afraid if so, they maybe have left this forum behind too.
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
For me the aiming system (CTE) has become how I approach every shot. It does become very automatic, but it is an integral part of my PSR. As there is no contact point involved, it is not something I'd eventually resort to or go back to.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The better I get the easier is it for me to see the shot line.

For about the past 5 or so years, when it comes to aiming -- I simply overlap the contact point and occasionally use the double the distance method on the fuller hits as a double check until I get locked in.

Lately, I've noticed I dont spend nearly the same amount of time on aiming as I used to. It seems I just see the shot. So I'm wondering is there anybody still in this forum that has graduated away from aiming systems altogether? I'm afraid if so, they maybe have left this forum behind too.

TL;DR: Internalizing aiming systems is normal as you get better, but keep them handy in case you need them and don't abandon your pre-shot routine.

How do you account for English?

Seeing the shot correctly is the desired end result for the aiming systems that you are using. Even if you're not doing it consciously anymore, you're still doing it subconsciously. Maybe that simplifies your pre-shot routine and you don't need to do some of the tedious steps that you are doing now. Maybe that will help you get to the next level and enjoy it more.

I started out using ghost ball and double the distance and created my own. I played for years about as instinctive as you can get. Sometimes I would be shooting the ball before I even got my bridge hand down. And I played pretty good that way.

Now that I don't play as much I'm much more likely to miss routine shots when I play that way so I have been dabbling with aiming systems again. I have recently been learning a little about CTE and find it helpful on a lot of shots that I have started having trouble with. Like backward cuts down the rail or long *almost* straight shots. I also created my own based on CTE that is really helpful for those two type of shots. As well as for inside english shots.

The way to approach aiming systems is to use them as a tool that can create repeatable positive results when applied correctly. Sometimes when you don't see the shot or the pressure is getting to you or it just looks funny, it's good to have an aiming system to fall back on.

Your pre-shot routine should reflect this. When you assess the shot, you decide how to shoot it (speed, spin, etc...) and you might also choose how to aim it while you are still standing up. For example, I have a tendency to overcut backward shots down the rail. So I have a pivot system I use for those. I go through that analysis when I am doing my Pre-shot routine so that when I step down on the shot, I know what my starting alignment is and then I can pivot into the shot correctly.

If you are seeing the balls well and seeing the shot, your pre-shot routine is all about determining speed, spin and contact point (or overlap) and falling into the right position when you get down on the shot so that everything looks right and you can execute the shot with confidence.

Another thought about aiming systems - the center of the cue is round and indistinct - i.e. nothing to sight with. Same thing with the CB and OB. This can cause small judgement errors (because you have to judge where the center | 1/4 | 1/8 is) that can make a big difference on tight equipment. For that reason I have been experimenting with aiming systems that rely on aiming the edge of the cue stick.
 

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
The better I get the easier is it for me to see the shot line.

For about the past 5 or so years, when it comes to aiming -- I simply overlap the contact point and occasionally use the double the distance method on the fuller hits as a double check until I get locked in.

Lately, I've noticed I dont spend nearly the same amount of time on aiming as I used to. It seems I just see the shot. So I'm wondering is there anybody still in this forum that has graduated away from aiming systems altogether? I'm afraid if so, they maybe have left this forum behind too.

I have and know exactly what you mean. Those that don't still advocate using some kinda of system.

For me, its all about stroke now, just sensing what is needed for the shot and doing it.

This is a result of HAMB, and still surprises me those that do not understand that quality table time is the key.
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
Some fail to recognize that an aiming system is a tool, not a replacement for quality table time. The two together are necessary to be successful with any system.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The better I get the easier is it for me to see the shot line.

For about the past 5 or so years, when it comes to aiming -- I simply overlap the contact point and occasionally use the double the distance method on the fuller hits as a double check until I get locked in.

Lately, I've noticed I dont spend nearly the same amount of time on aiming as I used to. It seems I just see the shot. So I'm wondering is there anybody still in this forum that has graduated away from aiming systems altogether? I'm afraid if so, they maybe have left this forum behind too.

I almost made this exact same post, but decided not to for some reason.
 

Allen Brown

Pool Whale
Silver Member
You have it all figured out, so why post here?

Show me where I made such a comment. I was never taught an aiming system. I never knew about them until I joined this forum. I just get up and shoot......and I miss a lot.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Show me where I made such a comment. I was never taught an aiming system. I never knew about them until I joined this forum. I just get up and shoot......and I miss a lot.

If you're happy doing what you're doing then keep doing it. If you want to improve, keep doing more or what you're doing and hope for the best. OR, consider an aiming system. ANY aiming system. Who knows how great you'll become if you didn't miss lot?

Can you teach your "non aiming system" to anyone else who aspires to be as great as you? What is it that you do or don't do that can be explained to others?
 

Allen Brown

Pool Whale
Silver Member
I tried showing my wife how to play a few times by telling her to pivot left or right and then when to shoot........and yeah that didn't work out too well. I'm not a teacher at all. I just get up and do.

I have no idea how to use CTE.....tried and failed miserably.
I can't see a ghost ball at all and I see no imaginary lines on the table.
It's just repetition and guessing. A lot of times I get lucky.....more than not.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I tried showing my wife how to play a few times by telling her to pivot left or right and then when to shoot........and yeah that didn't work out too well. I'm not a teacher at all. I just get up and do.

I have no idea how to use CTE.....tried and failed miserably.
I can't see a ghost ball at all and I see no imaginary lines on the table.
It's just repetition and guessing. A lot of times I get lucky.....more than not.

Better watch out, your wife might stand a good chance of beating you on a regular basis if she figures some things out on her own. Pivoting might have been too advanced for her at the time. A straight cue at center ball would have been a little easier and more effective.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I'm wondering is there anybody still in this forum that has graduated away from aiming systems altogether? .

Graduated? LMAO. Makes me wonder why aiming, as a main fundamental of the game, is even taught to begin with.

I guess it means aiming is no longer needed in any way, shape, or form after a certain point. Pro level play doesn't require it so why should it for amateurs?

Is a cap and gown required on graduation day? :rotflmao1:
 

tonythetiger583

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been going at CTE for more than a year now, and I still suck.

Trying to figure it out form the dvd, without anyone showing me, was hard, and most of the time when I thought I got it, turns out there was still something that needed to be tweaked or done differently.

At this point tho, I think I got it :p.

It almost feels like learning a different language. And you have to translate what you see on the table, into the angles and visuals and body movements of cte. If nothing else, it's definitely influenced the way I look at things.

I think I made it doubly hard on myself because I didnt really know how to play pool before trying to learn cte, So I never really learned to aim, and I didnt have a stroke.

I'm reallly excited for the day that I can apply the visuals, and know the tips of english, and which system to apply instinctively and get to just worry on my stroke, and I feel like it's not that far off.


Right now my approach is:

CTE Pro One for 97% of my shots

1% 90/90 for jump shots, jack over the ball shots, and lining up the first part of a combo.

2% Stan shuffet's quarter ball sighting for second part of combos, cheating pockets, caroms, safeties etc.


BTW I really like Stan's quarter ball sighting and feel like it could be a quality product all by itself. It's super great and was the last puzzle piece for me to approach every shots with the same visual sweeps across the board.

I used to think one of CTE's cons was that you could only go center pocket, but I feel quarter-ball sighting really completes the CTE system.
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
TL;DR: Internalizing aiming systems is normal as you get better, but keep them handy in case you need them and don't abandon your pre-shot routine.

How do you account for English?

Seeing the shot correctly is the desired end result for the aiming systems that you are using. Even if you're not doing it consciously anymore, you're still doing it subconsciously. Maybe that simplifies your pre-shot routine and you don't need to do some of the tedious steps that you are doing now. Maybe that will help you get to the next level and enjoy it more.

I started out using ghost ball and double the distance and created my own. I played for years about as instinctive as you can get. Sometimes I would be shooting the ball before I even got my bridge hand down. And I played pretty good that way.

Now that I don't play as much I'm much more likely to miss routine shots when I play that way so I have been dabbling with aiming systems again. I have recently been learning a little about CTE and find it helpful on a lot of shots that I have started having trouble with. Like backward cuts down the rail or long *almost* straight shots. I also created my own based on CTE that is really helpful for those two type of shots. As well as for inside english shots.

The way to approach aiming systems is to use them as a tool that can create repeatable positive results when applied correctly. Sometimes when you don't see the shot or the pressure is getting to you or it just looks funny, it's good to have an aiming system to fall back on.

Your pre-shot routine should reflect this. When you assess the shot, you decide how to shoot it (speed, spin, etc...) and you might also choose how to aim it while you are still standing up. For example, I have a tendency to overcut backward shots down the rail. So I have a pivot system I use for those. I go through that analysis when I am doing my Pre-shot routine so that when I step down on the shot, I know what my starting alignment is and then I can pivot into the shot correctly.

If you are seeing the balls well and seeing the shot, your pre-shot routine is all about determining speed, spin and contact point (or overlap) and falling into the right position when you get down on the shot so that everything looks right and you can execute the shot with confidence.

Another thought about aiming systems - the center of the cue is round and indistinct - i.e. nothing to sight with. Same thing with the CB and OB. This can cause small judgement errors (because you have to judge where the center | 1/4 | 1/8 is) that can make a big difference on tight equipment. For that reason I have been experimenting with aiming systems that rely on aiming the edge of the cue stick.

Very well written and thought buddy- hope you re doing great my friend.

best from here,
Ingo
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another thought about aiming systems - the center of the cue is round and indistinct - i.e. nothing to sight with. Same thing with the CB and OB. This can cause small judgement errors (because you have to judge where the center | 1/4 | 1/8 is) that can make a big difference on tight equipment. For that reason I have been experimenting with aiming systems that rely on aiming the edge of the cue stick.

Is there a particular system that shows you how to aim using the edge of the cue stick, or is it something you picked up on your own?
Thanks
Eddie
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The better I get the easier is it for me to see the shot line.

For about the past 5 or so years, when it comes to aiming -- I simply overlap the contact point and occasionally use the double the distance method on the fuller hits as a double check until I get locked in.

Lately, I've noticed I dont spend nearly the same amount of time on aiming as I used to. It seems I just see the shot. So I'm wondering is there anybody still in this forum that has graduated away from aiming systems altogether? I'm afraid if so, they maybe have left this forum behind too.

Double the distance aiming system is another one I'm not familiar with either. Do you have an example of how it's done?
Thanks,
Eddie
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Better watch out, your wife might stand a good chance of beating you on a regular basis if she figures some things out on her own. Pivoting might have been too advanced for her at the time. A straight cue at center ball would have been a little easier and more effective.

By far the very first thing to explain- and some *visual reference points* to "finde the pocket". That s enough at the beginning. And it doesn t really matter about what kind of reference points we may talk now- but *she* need some :)
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another thought about aiming systems - the center of the cue is round and indistinct - i.e. nothing to sight with. Same thing with the CB and OB. This can cause small judgement errors (because you have to judge where the center | 1/4 | 1/8 is) that can make a big difference on tight equipment. For that reason I have been experimenting with aiming systems that rely on aiming the edge of the cue stick.

Is there a particular system that shows you how to aim using the edge of the cue stick, or is it something you picked up on your own?
Thanks
Eddie

I don't know of a link to one off the top of my head. I was going to draw you some pictures but it's been a pretty hectic day.

Here is a simple one that works pretty well for a lot of shots. I made this one up but I'm sure I'm not the first one to try it. I've heard that Shane uses something related to this. For cut shots less than 15 degrees or so - aim the center of the cue stick at the contact point on the object ball. For cuts bigger than that, line up on the cue ball so that the edge of the cue on the side you are cutting to is pointed at the contact point. Aiming the center of the cue at the contact point works really, really well for long shots that are almost straight in.

The contact point is the point on the object ball that you want the cueball to make contact with to pocket the ball. The point opposite the object ball from the point closest to the center of the pocket. If you visualize a ghost ball it's the point where the ghost ball would be touching the object ball.

This will have you nailing so many shots its silly. When you can 'see' it well, then start identifying the shots that it doesn't work for and learn how to adjust for them. Maybe you'll be aiming the edge of the cue at the edge of the OB for thin cuts. Whatever. The important thing is that once you start to see how to adjust a system then you know when it works and when it doesn't and how to use it even when it might not give you the 100% correct shot line.

It's still a judgement call because you have to judge the contact point and the center of the cuestick for smaller cuts. To me it's easier than trying to judge an amount of overlap or something similar.

Double the distance is a method that is geometrically correct but relies on judgement and accurate aim. If you imagine a line between the center of the cue ball and the center of the object ball and the look at the distance between that line and the contact point - the aim point is exactly twice that distance. Pivot systems are largely a way to arrive that that aim point without having to think about doubling the distance.

Before I ever heard of CTE (late 80s/early 90s) I developed a pivot system to try and arrive at double the distance. It worked pretty well but the biggest flaw in all of these type of aiming systems is that they don't account for the effects of spin. Since I could always see the correct aim line without english, I abandoned that and started focusing my efforts on aiming systems or frameworks that would help incorporate english. I have some interesting developments along that line that I would like to share on the forums when I have time.

All aiming systems are dependent on eye position relative to the cuestick and the characteristics of your cue. The more they incorporate english or a pivot, the more they can be affected.
 
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