I Used to Use a System But Now....

[BilliardsAbout]

The better I get the easier is it for me to see the shot line.

For about the past 5 or so years, when it comes to aiming -- I simply overlap the contact point and occasionally use the double the distance method on the fuller hits as a double check until I get locked in.

Lately, I've noticed I dont spend nearly the same amount of time on aiming as I used to. It seems I just see the shot. So I'm wondering is there anybody still in this forum that has graduated away from aiming systems altogether? I'm afraid if so, they maybe have left this forum behind too.

If you mostly overlap contact points and for some shots use double the distance as a guide--you use an aiming system IMHO.

 

[sixpack]

One more thing about aiming systems that is important to note:

If you are missing shots frequently there is a chance it is your aim and a more likely chance that you have a stroke or alignment flaw. For example, I tend to do a sideways swoop at the end of my stroke. This makes me miss shots the same way every time. I have learned to recognize that when I start doing that it's time to straighten it out again.

No aiming system will work if your fundamentals aren't solid. If you are missing shots analyze why you are missing them. Are you missing them on the same side every time? Are you missing the same shot every time? Are your misses random? Do you overcoat and undercut equally as often?

All of these questions can help you determine if you are dealing with an aiming problem, a stroke problem or just random inconsistencies. Going to see an instructor like Scott Lee or attending his Pool School is a good way to get your fundamentals in shape.

 

[bdorman]

It's funny because I was about to post the same thought; I no longer consciously go through the aiming part of my PSR...I just see the shot, play by feel.

However, I know that my brain is still using the system. It's just done it so many times that it's become second nature; like driving a car, you can drive for hours and never really "think" about it.

 

[LAMas]

If you mostly overlap contact points and for some shots use double the distance as a guide--you use an aiming system IMHO.

PJ's DD pic.



A better explaination by PJ.

 

[EddieBme]

I don't know of a link to one off the top of my head. I was going to draw you some pictures but it's been a pretty hectic day.

Here is a simple one that works pretty well for a lot of shots. I made this one up but I'm sure I'm not the first one to try it. I've heard that Shane uses something related to this. For cut shots less than 15 degrees or so - aim the center of the cue stick at the contact point on the object ball. For cuts bigger than that, line up on the cue ball so that the edge of the cue on the side you are cutting to is pointed at the contact point. Aiming the center of the cue at the contact point works really, really well for long shots that are almost straight in.

The contact point is the point on the object ball that you want the cueball to make contact with to pocket the ball. The point opposite the object ball from the point closest to the center of the pocket. If you visualize a ghost ball it's the point where the ghost ball would be touching the object ball.

This will have you nailing so many shots its silly. When you can 'see' it well, then start identifying the shots that it doesn't work for and learn how to adjust for them. Maybe you'll be aiming the edge of the cue at the edge of the OB for thin cuts. Whatever. The important thing is that once you start to see how to adjust a system then you know when it works and when it doesn't and how to use it even when it might not give you the 100% correct shot line.

It's still a judgement call because you have to judge the contact point and the center of the cuestick for smaller cuts. To me it's easier than trying to judge an amount of overlap or something similar.

Double the distance is a method that is geometrically correct but relies on judgement and accurate aim. If you imagine a line between the center of the cue ball and the center of the object ball and the look at the distance between that line and the contact point - the aim point is exactly twice that distance. Pivot systems are largely a way to arrive that that aim point without having to think about doubling the distance.

Before I ever heard of CTE (late 80s/early 90s) I developed a pivot system to try and arrive at double the distance. It worked pretty well but the biggest flaw in all of these type of aiming systems is that they don't account for the effects of spin. Since I could always see the correct aim line without english, I abandoned that and started focusing my efforts on aiming systems or frameworks that would help incorporate english. I have some interesting developments along that line that I would like to share on the forums when I have time.

All aiming systems are dependent on eye position relative to the cuestick and the characteristics of your cue. The more they incorporate english or a pivot, the more they can be affected.

Thanks Sixpack, I appreciate you taking the time out to explain how those aiming systems work, and the advice.
Eddie

 

[BasementDweller]

If you mostly overlap contact points and for some shots use double the distance as a guide--you use an aiming system IMHO.

I never said those weren't systems (or methods).

The point was -- I don't find myself thinking about them or using them all that often anymore. I suppose the ultimate goal of any system is to have them totally ingrained into the subconscious where you no longer have to think about them. I imagine this is much easier with some systems than with others.

 

[EddieBme]

If you are missing shots frequently there is a chance it is your aim and a more likely chance that you have a stroke or alignment flaw. For example, I tend to do a sideways swoop at the end of my stroke. This makes me miss shots the same way every time. I have learned to recognize that when I start doing that it's time to straighten it out again.

I have noticed some of the top players that have a sideways swoop also. I watched some of Mike Dechaines matches and he does a right to left swoop, especially when shooting hard.

 

[LAMas]

Another thought about aiming systems - the center of the cue is round and indistinct - i.e. nothing to sight with. Same thing with the CB and OB. This can cause small judgement errors (because you have to judge where the center | 1/4 | 1/8 is) that can make a big difference on tight equipment. For that reason I have been experimenting with aiming systems that rely on aiming the edge of the cue stick.

Is there a particular system that shows you how to aim using the edge of the cue stick, or is it something you picked up on your own?
Thanks
Eddie

You need to see the results for you for the diameter of the end of the shaft makes a small difference:

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I never said those weren't systems (or methods).

The point was -- I don't find myself thinking about them or using them all that often anymore. I suppose the ultimate goal of any system is to have them totally ingrained into the subconscious where you no longer have to think about them. I imagine this is much easier with some systems than with others.

There's a good and a bad to what you're saying. The good is it's great to be somewhat in a constant "zone" where you just see everything, step in and take your stance, take a couple of practice strokes and shoot. Balls just drop. Life couldn't be better for a pool player.

The bad is all good things come to an end and we get sloppy. Balls start missing and suddenly a lost feeling sets in until you go back to the basics of a system which requires certain steps and acute visual focus.

Here's the real tester question. Let's assume you were playing for $1,000 sets on a regular basis or worked your way up in the brackets of the US Open.

What would you trust...your subconscious to see the shots and just keep firing on instinct or really focusing and homing in with laser like accuracy in a system that got you there, especially if you were down about $4,000 bucks?

 

[Allen Brown]

You need to see the results for you for the diameter of the end of the shaft makes a small difference:

View attachment 424995

I do I use this and make it work properly.

 

[sixpack]

If you are missing shots frequently there is a chance it is your aim and a more likely chance that you have a stroke or alignment flaw. For example, I tend to do a sideways swoop at the end of my stroke. This makes me miss shots the same way every time. I have learned to recognize that when I start doing that it's time to straighten it out again.

I have noticed some of the top players that have a sideways swoop also. I watched some of Mike Dechaines matches and he does a right to left swoop, especially when shooting hard.

Yes, a lot of them do. And they account for it either consciously or subconsciously. Some do it purposefully as part of their shot. There are some aiming techniques that you start aiming in one place and then stroke through a different place to put english on the ball. I don't know enough about those to even begin to explain it.

When I played 100% by feel the swoop didn't bother me too much because I already was allowing for it in my aim. The problem is that playing 100% by feel requires you to play all the time to keep the feel right. When I started playing more methodically that's when it popped up. In two ways. First, obviously when I aimed where I thought I needed to the ball missed to the right. Second, when I aimed correctly it didn't feel right because I was used to seeing it differently - and I would sometimes jerk at the last second to try and compensate.

 

[sixpack]

You need to see the results for you for the diameter of the end of the shaft makes a small difference:

View attachment 424995

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[LAMas]

For cut angles greater than 39 degrees, use the edge of the CB.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

I never said those weren't systems (or methods).

The point was -- I don't find myself thinking about them or using them all that often anymore. I suppose the ultimate goal of any system is to have them totally ingrained into the subconscious where you no longer have to think about them. I imagine this is much easier with some systems than with others.

Sorry, I see now you wrote...

"For about the past 5 or so years, when it comes to aiming -- I simply... Lately, I've noticed I don't spend nearly the same amount of time on aiming as I used to..."

I shouldn't have assumed. But when you do get stuck with a tough shot, and intuition isn't enough, what do you do? You see, even pros who say "no system" have little tips and tricks (systems) they use on tougher shots--was my point.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Pidge]

I always thought everyone just looked at the pocket, then the object ball and automatically got the eyes behind the cue ball along the line of aim and got down. How wrong I was. It is the way I do it and it wasn't until I joined this forum I learned about all the different types of systems.

I've tried just about every system mentioned on here, not because I struggle with aim but rather to find a simple way to explain a method of potting balls to people struggling. I haven't found one to be able to do that yet. Some are good for certain shots but lack on other shots. So when I teach someone how to aim I always teach to visualise the balls colliding with the cue ball hit at the desired speed and spin and visualise the object ball going into the pocket and you will find the line of aim this way. It requires some experience to learn how the balls react and all the variable speeds and spins but you do just that
... Learn. With systems I find it almost impossible to learn how to aim instinctively. You are too busy on doing this, focusing on that.... You forget to pay attention to how the balls collide and nothing gets stored in your memory.

 

[Dan White]

But when you do get stuck with a tough shot, and intuition isn't enough, what do you do? You see, even pros who say "no system" have little tips and tricks (systems) they use on tougher shots--was my point.

What kind of shots are you referring to -- banks, kicks?

 

[Dan White]

I always thought everyone just looked at the pocket, then the object ball and automatically got the eyes behind the cue ball along the line of aim and got down. How wrong I was. It is the way I do it and it wasn't until I joined this forum I learned about all the different types of systems.

I've tried just about every system mentioned on here, not because I struggle with aim but rather to find a simple way to explain a method of potting balls to people struggling. I haven't found one to be able to do that yet. Some are good for certain shots but lack on other shots. So when I teach someone how to aim I always teach to visualise the balls colliding with the cue ball hit at the desired speed and spin and visualise the object ball going into the pocket and you will find the line of aim this way. It requires some experience to learn how the balls react and all the variable speeds and spins but you do just that
... Learn. With systems I find it almost impossible to learn how to aim instinctively. You are too busy on doing this, focusing on that.... You forget to pay attention to how the balls collide and nothing gets stored in your memory.

Well stated. I think the problem is that some people want to believe that there is a "1,2,3" set of instructions that will cause the ball to be pocketed when you follow those steps. They want to skip the most important step, which is putting in the effort to make aiming subconscious and automatic.

For me, the better my stroke gets, the better I pocket balls. That tells me that aiming isn't the limiting factor, it is the quality (straightness) of the stroke that is more important, and more difficult, to master.

 

[sixpack]

I always thought everyone just looked at the pocket, then the object ball and automatically got the eyes behind the cue ball along the line of aim and got down. How wrong I was. It is the way I do it and it wasn't until I joined this forum I learned about all the different types of systems.

I've tried just about every system mentioned on here, not because I struggle with aim but rather to find a simple way to explain a method of potting balls to people struggling. I haven't found one to be able to do that yet. Some are good for certain shots but lack on other shots. So when I teach someone how to aim I always teach to visualise the balls colliding with the cue ball hit at the desired speed and spin and visualise the object ball going into the pocket and you will find the line of aim this way. It requires some experience to learn how the balls react and all the variable speeds and spins but you do just that
... Learn. With systems I find it almost impossible to learn how to aim instinctively. You are too busy on doing this, focusing on that.... You forget to pay attention to how the balls collide and nothing gets stored in your memory.

I was thinking about this the other day too - because of this thread. I think every single new player should learn through visualization and trial and error. Ghost ball or train tracks. If they don't, I don't think they ever develop a good mental model of what has to happen and how English affects the shot.

I've been exploring aiming systems since I stopped playing regularly. I think overall it has helped me make balls better. Even when I'm not using a "system". So I think it's a worthwhile thing to do.

I think top players stop tinkering once they can make balls at the level they want to. Then they focus on pattern play, safety and kicking and getting shape in specific situations they see.

I've had times where I was making the balls great and thought: "what if I changed this" and changed it...and then couldn't change it back easily because my working mental model had changed.

In sports performance I've always thought that if you try harder and perform worse, it's due to a mismatch between your mental model of the sport and the reality of what you need to do. So if you misunderstand the effects of English, for example, you can make shots instinctively because you are letting your subconscious make small adjusments. Then you get to an important point in the match...hill-hill game ball or something and you try harder...you'll override your subconscious and doink the ball right into the rail. So that's the fear I have with beginners starting with CTE, for example. I'm worried their mental imagery will never match up correctly. Once they have a good grasp of everything then heck yeah! If you can make more balls aiming at the moon, do it!

 

[lfigueroa]

Aiming systems are for suckers.

If some have success, generally speaking, they are already accomplished players.

There are just too many variables from shot to shot, to say nothing of player to player.

Lou Figueroa

 

[GaryB]

For cut angles greater than 39 degrees, use the edge of the CB.

View attachment 425041

Exactly what Hal Houle showed me about 20+ years ago.