I want to learn English Billiards

C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
I know how to play the game and how many points cannons, winning and losing hazards and in offs are worth.

But can anyone give me a few drills, or practice regimens to start with? I play snooker so potting is not an issue for me, rather its the caroms that I really need work on.


Thanks for any and all advice.
 
Youtube to the rescue

Cameron Smith said:
I know how to play the game and how many points cannons, winning and losing hazards and in offs are worth.

But can anyone give me a few drills, or practice regimens to start with? I play snooker so potting is not an issue for me, rather its the caroms that I really need work on.


Thanks for any and all advice.
Click to expand...

There is a clip of Walter Lindrum making a 200 point break
this should show you a few of the subilities of the game.

Also, Daily's book - "Modern Billiards" IIRC, and anything on
Balkline should transfer well

Dale Pierce
 
Cameron Smith said:
I know how to play the game and how many points cannons, winning and losing hazards and in offs are worth.

But can anyone give me a few drills, or practice regimens to start with? I play snooker so potting is not an issue for me, rather its the caroms that I really need work on.


Thanks for any and all advice.
Click to expand...
There are several books that describe the standard shots and standard methods. It has been years since I read it but Richard Holt's "Billiards and Snooker" is what I started with, IIRC. Perfect the standard shots shown in there. The in-offs are probably more important that the cannons, but use almost the same skills.

But it helps a lot to play with someone who more or less knows what they're doing. Is there any kind of ex-pat community that has snooker (billiards) tables in your area?

I assume you already know about http://www.eaba.co.uk/
 
Bob Jewett said:
There are several books that describe the standard shots and standard methods. It has been years since I read it but Richard Holt's "Billiards and Snooker" is what I started with, IIRC. Perfect the standard shots shown in there. The in-offs are probably more important that the cannons, but use almost the same skills.

But it helps a lot to play with someone who more or less knows what they're doing. Is there any kind of ex-pat community that has snooker (billiards) tables in your area?

I assume you already know about http://www.eaba.co.uk/
Click to expand...

There is a place that has a snooker table in my area and I can play as long as I want for $6. So I figured I would spend a few hours (or more) practicing cannons and in-offs. Sadly there isn't anybody around that I know of who plays, let alone knows what English billiards are. So I am kind of on my own here.

Thanks for the links and book suggestions guys :). I'll get around to watching the vido tomorrow night as I have a slow dial up internet connection.
 
On the "Cue Chalk Board" forum (Billiards Digest site), there is a poster that goes by the name "cushioncrawler". His writing style is a little strange but he does very well in Australia's open championships (English billiards). You probably won't have to twist his arm for info on the game.

Jim
 
Cameron,
A drill that I found useful and enjoyable was to begin in the penalty position. That is, the opponent's ball is on the blue spot and the red is on the black spot.

Play the standard in-off trying to bring the opponent's ball into the drop cannon position. That is about 1 foot out from the rail slightly below the center line of the table.

From the drop cannon, the goal is to cannon such that the opponent's ball finishes in top-of-the-table position. i.e. Near the black spot.

Then try to build breaks using top-of-the-table methods as seen in the Walter Lindrum video.

Sometimes I would just start from the drop cannon position or in perfect top-of-the-table position and see how many points I could score in 10 attempts.

Colin
 
Move to Middlesbrough. It's just about the centre of the English Billiards universe.

Boro Nut
 
Boro Nut said:
Move to Middlesbrough. It's just about the centre of the English Billiards universe.

Boro Nut
Click to expand...

Wise Words.

Rusell, Gilchrist, Shutt to name a few.

Boro Nut, I hears that Shutty made a 2000+ break recently.

Is this true?
 
Wow

I retract my previous statement about this game a long time ago saying that I'd rather stick with Straight-Rail Carom. This game looks FUN! I can see now that this is quite the prerequisite for snooker. :)
 
Book

You need to get a copy of Walter Lindrums "Toohey"s book. Toohey's beer company in Australia published a book (1931?) with many photos of Walter shooting different shots. There are a few copies out there, I purchased mine for only $60 Australian, two years ago.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Cameron,
A drill that I found useful and enjoyable was to begin in the penalty position. That is, the opponent's ball is on the blue spot and the red is on the black spot.

Play the standard in-off trying to bring the opponent's ball into the drop cannon position. That is about 1 foot out from the rail slightly below the center line of the table.

From the drop cannon, the goal is to cannon such that the opponent's ball finishes in top-of-the-table position. i.e. Near the black spot.

Then try to build breaks using top-of-the-table methods as seen in the Walter Lindrum video.

Sometimes I would just start from the drop cannon position or in perfect top-of-the-table position and see how many points I could score in 10 attempts.

Colin
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely try this out on saturday when I get on snooker/english billiard table.

Though I have a question that I was wondering if anyone could answer. I was looking at the EABA website (which is absolutely AMAZING), and it seemed odd that modern day games are being played to 1000 or 1200 points where as fifty years ago it was 16000 or 20000 points. Now I understand that part of this is that it takes too much time to play such a match and people may not want to follow a two week long match. But the way the bio of Walter Lindrum makes it sound, it was fairly common for them to run 1000 points or more, therefore a 1000 point match would be insufficiently long.

Has there been any rule changes in the last while to make the game more difficult such that tournament high runs are 400 or 500 point breaks and no longer in the thousands? Or has the standard of play dropped off?
 
Cameron Smith said:
Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely try this out on saturday when I get on snooker/english billiard table.

Though I have a question that I was wondering if anyone could answer. I was looking at the EABA website (which is absolutely AMAZING), and it seemed odd that modern day games are being played to 1000 or 1200 points where as fifty years ago it was 16000 or 20000 points. Now I understand that part of this is that it takes too much time to play such a match and people may not want to follow a two week long match. But the way the bio of Walter Lindrum makes it sound, it was fairly common for them to run 1000 points or more, therefore a 1000 point match would be insufficiently long.

Has there been any rule changes in the last while to make the game more difficult such that tournament high runs are 400 or 500 point breaks and no longer in the thousands? Or has the standard of play dropped off?
Click to expand...

The main reason for the longer races back then is because that is how they made money. People would pay entry fees each day, so challenges would run for several days. This helped to offset the costs of travel back then which were relatively high, especially in terms of time.

Modern day billiards is mainly in tournament format, with monies coming from entrance fees and some sponsorships.

As for the level of play, the best indicator would be average points per visit. Walter Lindrum would often average 200+ at his peak. The rules are pretty much the same now as they were then as far as I can tell. I don't think the top players of today are scoring at those averages, probably closer to 100 points per visit....though I haven't seen much stats on this.

In those days there were an elite group of players who were complete professionals. All they did was travel and play, and over 30 years of this tough competition the standards grew very high, as has the standard in snooker over the last 25 years. These guys worked really hard on their games, as failing probably meant getting a job as a low paid laborer. I expect most of the top billiard players these days have other forms of income, so they don't go hungry if they miss a few shots.:p

Colin
 
Cameron Smith said:
... But the way the bio of Walter Lindrum makes it sound, it was fairly common for them to run 1000 points or more, therefore a 1000 point match would be insufficiently long....
Click to expand...
I think that some competitions now are played in sets to 100. That would definitely cut down on the chance for high breaks (runs) and would also make some of the restrictive rules moot.

As Colin said, there is not as much financial incentive these days. Lindrum appeared at the end of the golden age of English billiards. Some feel he helped cause the end.
 
Colin Colenso said:
As for the level of play, the best indicator would be average points per visit. Walter Lindrum would often average 200+ at his peak. The rules are pretty much the same now as they were then as far as I can tell. I don't think the top players of today are scoring at those averages, probably closer to 100 points per visit....though I haven't seen much stats on this.
Click to expand...

Not true Colin. Lindrum scored most heavily with the nursery cannon. I've seen Russel and Gilchrist demonstrate these techniques (from a set-up) until everyone was bored. It's not that they lack the skill, the situations just never come up in a match, where their focus is usually to establish top-of-the-table position. Severe shot limitations (on all types of strokes) prevent them being a viable option in modern billiards and make for a completely different game. The big breaks nowadays are made from open play or using the floating white or postman's knock techniques at the top of the table (pot red, cannon, pot red, cannon... ad infinitum) and the modern players are as good as anyone has ever been at it.

Lindrum would struggle to keep the balls together on the fast modern tables, which invariably suit snooker, not billiards. Even in those days he insisted on fitting his own cushions to the tables he played on. That's not to say he wasn't the finest player to ever hold a cue, but Mike Russel has been seriously mentioned in the same breath by many knowledgeable pundits and I bet you've never heard of him.

The older composition balls were also heavier. I found them much easier to play certain shots like follow-through cannons, but it's a lot easier to force the modern balls when needed.

Boro Nut
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think that some competitions now are played in sets to 100.
Click to expand...

Which is a joke really - ask any pro. It's akin to winning at 9 ball by potting a ball off the break. Our local leagues play to 120 points, and players post 120+ unfinished breaks most weeks. (yes it's possible. You can get to 119 points and in theory score as many as 10 points with your winning shot).

Boro Nut
 
Boro Nut said:
Not true Colin. Lindrum scored most heavily with the nursery cannon. I've seen Russel and Gilchrist demonstrate these techniques (from a set-up) until everyone was bored. It's not that they lack the skill, the situations just never come up in a match, where their focus is usually to establish top-of-the-table position. Severe shot limitations (on all types of strokes) prevent them being a viable option in modern billiards and make for a completely different game. The big breaks nowadays are made from open play or using the floating white or postman's knock techniques at the top of the table (pot red, cannon, pot red, cannon... ad infinitum) and the modern players are as good as anyone has ever been at it.

Lindrum would struggle to keep the balls together on the fast modern tables, which invariably suit snooker, not billiards. Even in those days he insisted on fitting his own cushions to the tables he played on. That's not to say he wasn't the finest player to ever hold a cue, but Mike Russel has been seriously mentioned in the same breath by many knowledgeable pundits and I bet you've never heard of him.

The older composition balls were also heavier. I found them much easier to play certain shots like follow-through cannons, but it's a lot easier to force the modern balls when needed.

Boro Nut
Click to expand...
Hi Boro,
I was under the impression that today's limitations are pretty similar to those Lindrum was playing under toward the end of his career. Certainly early on, he was able to make more breaks dominated by nursery cannons.

I have heard of Mike as I've followed the results over the years. Just haven't followed it in detail. Two of my Aussie friends Robby Foldvari and David Collins often played in the international events.

btw: I've heard the same thing about the cloth and the composition balls.

It may be hard to make comparisons, but I tend to think that the top 5 of that era would have beaten the best of this era. Just my impression. Would like to see stats that indicate otherwise.

Colin
 
Boro Nut said:
Not true Colin. Lindrum scored most heavily with the nursery cannon. I've seen Russel and Gilchrist demonstrate these techniques (from a set-up) until everyone was bored. It's not that they lack the skill, the situations just never come up in a match, where their focus is usually to establish top-of-the-table position. Severe shot limitations (on all types of strokes) prevent them being a viable option in modern billiards and make for a completely different game. The big breaks nowadays are made from open play or using the floating white or postman's knock techniques at the top of the table (pot red, cannon, pot red, cannon... ad infinitum) and the modern players are as good as anyone has ever been at it.

Lindrum would struggle to keep the balls together on the fast modern tables, which invariably suit snooker, not billiards. Even in those days he insisted on fitting his own cushions to the tables he played on. That's not to say he wasn't the finest player to ever hold a cue, but Mike Russel has been seriously mentioned in the same breath by many knowledgeable pundits and I bet you've never heard of him.

The older composition balls were also heavier. I found them much easier to play certain shots like follow-through cannons, but it's a lot easier to force the modern balls when needed.

Boro Nut
Click to expand...

Could you elaberate on the shot limitations, or if you prefer direct me to a website that describes them?
 
Cameron,

Just checked youtube, ther are TWO clips
that show 'nursery' cannons<you gotta love the Brits>

Dale Pierce
 
pdcue said:
Cameron,

Just checked youtube, ther are TWO clips
that show 'nursery' cannons<you gotta love the Brits>

Dale Pierce
Click to expand...

I saw those, and I have some excellent stuff to practice when I can get on to a snooker table. These players are beautiful to watch, I love the delicacy of carom games. I'm sure it'll be great fun to learn (either that or incedibly frusterating).
 
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