daphish1 said:
Awesome idea!! It'll will also help bring a different "stereotype" to the game which in turn (you're right!) brings different groups of interest. Which means different avenues for revenue and wider support/interest.
Ian Anderson's statement about missing players
- Thread starter phoebe choy
- Start date
Awesome idea!! It'll will also help bring a different "stereotype" to the game which in turn (you're right!) brings different groups of interest. Which means different avenues for revenue and wider support/interest.
I hate to say this but charity begins at home. How can players who can't even afford to pay for tournament fees/traveling expenses/hotel rooms/ air fares get to a charity event? Let the sport grow a bit bigger than it is right now and then we can talk about these things, but this is a great agenda for pool in the near future, I wish...
gopi-1 said:
The players would play for money not charity.
What helps the events is raising outside money for a charitable cause. PGA events are put on basically for free with all the volunteers/sponsors. In my city (San Antonio, TX), every year they have the TX Open. Last year they raised 8.4 million in charitiable donations and the purse for the event was 4.5 million. Major corporations sponsor the event. If pool can find away to generate television revenues the sponsors will be much easier to get. With more television exposure players are more likely to get sponsorship that aren't pool related. I don't know what a typical pro golfer makes in endorsements but i'm sure it helps cover their expenses to go to tournaments.
I'm not implying pool would instantly be able to generate that type of revenue but i think that type of business model might be worth a try.
Phoebe, help me chorus "told you so"! There are others, some post here in the forum, that I've mentioned and still one that they positioned as their buffer who they kept out of the limelight, APBU.phoebe choy said:
They all have forgotten or choose to ignore the fact that the players are the ones who give meaning to the word "POOL".
daphish1 said:
I hope that with the way BMPAP in the Philippines is merging sponsorship with the sport, a blueprint will soon come out to inspire the others so that even the budding and struggling pool player will not merely fade away. A template has to be fashioned to support ALL the players of a community.
These are hard times. Pool houses everywhere are closing down and the pool population is being downgraded into a fan status. Injecting the idea of Daphish is workable because fans do donate for a cause. But knowing pool, that aspect can only be a minor ingredient.
In the USA, the template of the MLB or NBA might just work with franchise owners pitching their team up against another in a national professional league. This will not hamper world tournaments where arrangements can be done for franchise team members to take 5 days off to compete internationally.
The Chinese see crisis as an opportunity. A team of pool pros will be very affordable to franchise owners as long as players don't get too greedy. Sponsorship media exposure will be generously provided for by the nature of a pool TV coverage. It will be a very efficient way for the sponsors to be remembered during hard times.
In the Philippines, the National Billiards League, which is intended to take off by this year, is doing exactly that. It is a win-win project for everybody. The players will have a monthly stipend, the managers will be rid of the burden of financing the players, the sponsors will enjoy inexpensive extensive media exposure, the fans will have all the Filipino greats on TV three days a week, and it will be WPA-free. And, with its popularity comes the ease of organizing other independent tournaments.
It will take only a few fair and enterprising people to sit down and get the players together then plan the selling of the idea to prospective franchise owners and to a TV station. The rest will just really depend on TV ratings.
Sputnik,
Whatever they do i'd love to see pool elevated more then it is. I'd love to see people running pool tournaments (especially in countries like the Philippines, where pool is a popular draw) come up with a profitable format for players, promoters, and the community.
It's a shame that there is a world championship tournament where many of the top players aren't plaing.
Whatever they do i'd love to see pool elevated more then it is. I'd love to see people running pool tournaments (especially in countries like the Philippines, where pool is a popular draw) come up with a profitable format for players, promoters, and the community.
It's a shame that there is a world championship tournament where many of the top players aren't plaing.
It seems everyone is quick to place blame on here (including me from time to time). I have seen both sides of the coin on the issues that kept the top echelon of filipino players out of the WTBC. Arguments can be made for both sides in this conflict. To outrightly blame Makabenta or Anderson is a mistake. It could not have happened unless boths sides refused to reach an accord.
I will say this, Makabenta would have preferred that the top players participated. He did not want them kept out. That much I will say. As far as the underlying issues which made a resolution impossible, that is not for publication here. Both sides know what is underneath this conflict, and it has yet to be posted on here. And will not by me. Sorry to sound secretive, but it is not my place to judge who is right and who is wrong here. My opinion matters little anyway.
For the time being, let's just say there will be remain two separate promotion associations for pool in the Philippines. This in turn will give some opportunities for lesser players (i.e. Banares and Pulpul) to gain some recognition and make some money.
I will say this, Makabenta would have preferred that the top players participated. He did not want them kept out. That much I will say. As far as the underlying issues which made a resolution impossible, that is not for publication here. Both sides know what is underneath this conflict, and it has yet to be posted on here. And will not by me. Sorry to sound secretive, but it is not my place to judge who is right and who is wrong here. My opinion matters little anyway.
For the time being, let's just say there will be remain two separate promotion associations for pool in the Philippines. This in turn will give some opportunities for lesser players (i.e. Banares and Pulpul) to gain some recognition and make some money.
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jay helfert said:
just like you said jay..our opinions matters little here in this matter...
but i think.if you search your heart- especially as somebody who loves this game...i find it hard to believe that you don't see the wrong that yen and co. had committed in the past and arrogantly committing now..
do you think..with all these years you have known these legendary players like reyes.. that what they are standing for is wrong and yen is right...
if you feel yen is right that is why you are there to support his tournament.. then... fine..that is your right and absolute prerogative..
but for crying out loud.. can't you see the public reception this tour received from people in the phil. who last year -as you witnessed it..was jampacked and a huge success..until yen showed his true agenda..that is to dominate this sport he has no drop of sweat put on it tbecome successful( excluding last year- but that is because of his hideous agenda)
time will tell,,, but as far as i am concern..if i consider myself a man of integrity .. i would never have anything to do with yen and co... but that's just me ,, and like you said ..my opinions matters less
jay helfert said:
You are right - our opinions matter little. My problem was Ian's statement which specifically mentioned names and blew off these players as "not mattering". That to me shows no class. It's borderline being a complete asshole if you ask me. Someone in his position should have stated things objectively and less one-sided, as he should have no position regarding the Philippines situation. He, like said before by another poster, is like a tourist. Why even say something like that?? For Christ sake, politicians are the worst "rats" but even they are more graceful when addressing things publicly.
And, just because Yen would have liked these top-guns of the PI to participate, it doesn't mean he did anything to help resolve the issues at hand - so by far he isn't a saint. Of course he wanted them to play (who wouldn't have), but in no way did he want to negotiate anything acceptable enough so that they would. See what I mean...he is a snake, and his "words " mean nothing. As long as the top-guns are dissatisfied with him or how the organization in the PI is setup, I don't believe he has tried to remedy anything.
In fact, Bandido stated that BMPAP tried to come to a resolve with the BSCP prior to this WTBC, but BSCP cut off all communication. That shows me that BSCP/Yen/whoever is not willing to change a thing!
I have never met you Jay, but I've heard a lot about you. I just wanted to clarify my grief over Ian's arrogance/dishonorable/or just plain stupidity in his statement. I really don't care about anything except that the players should ALWAYS be taken care of...especially these BMPAP/filipino players....they do nothing but attend tournaments and play their hearts out for our enjoyment. Everybody loves and appreciates them - they are humble and friendly, and do no harm to anybody. Just because of that alone, they should never be talked about or treated in the manner that Ian did in his statement. And specifically naming Efren, Busti, and Alex was like pointing a finger at them and discrediting them. THAT is what my whole disgruntledness arises from.
jay helfert said:
Jay, whatever incredible secret that you have deserves to be brought out here. As far as I remember, all the issues from the other side of your fence (now) had been brought out here in this forum by Bandido and the others in the know (me included).
But I do agree with your statement that it could not have happened unless both sides refused to reach an accord. Makabenta met with BMPAP only when they were in panic because they could not get sponsors, which was what - two and a half weeks before the WTB. All those times, he (and Andersen) did not listen to the complaints. It was too late by then. The players had already taken it upon themselves to formalize their manifesto with signatures.
One thing that has been appearing in the Raya statements is that others (BMPAP) have been trying to prevent WTB from happening. Remember that it is a fact that Makabenta did not get sponsorship until one week before the tournament. Before he miraculously got the money from the Philippine government, we dutifully reported that to this forum (to update the people that there was no money yet). By tomorrow, we will know if Raya would have fulfilled their obligation to pay the players, and I sure hope that they do.
As to the official statements from BMPAP, there were only two that I remember: the palyer's manifest to boycott all Makabenta-related events; and the advisory that prohibited the unauthorised use of their members names in tournaments.
Perhaps within PICC, the feeling is that the top-guns were not missed. I can understand that feeling of fighting out the success of a tournament, and it surely can breed sympathy. But there is no question that the spirited fans were missed. And on TV, the top-guns were sorely missed.
I will only stop criticizing Makabenta if he reforms his ways that got him the boycott. And I will say this again, I will always step up to criticize whoever unfairly brings the players down. So far, BMPAP has been fair to the players, and their direction is very promising.
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I am telling you guys right now, it will take strong leaderships from the tops of both camps -Raya and BMPAP- to resolve this situation. If both sides can put aside their feelings, and let the cooler heads prevail, they WILL find a common ground somewhere to start.
Otherwise, this fight will continue until 1 faction dies, which would take many, many years to happen.
Who is going to show leadership and step up?
Otherwise, this fight will continue until 1 faction dies, which would take many, many years to happen.
Who is going to show leadership and step up?
daphish1 said:
Look up the PGA tour and see who owns it, if you can figure it out. As far as I can tell they started out as a trade organization trying to sell more equipment, and now they are a real estate company based around golf courses that also happens to run very successful golf tournaments.
The charity part is great. But I'm not sure how much say the players have in running their own game. I know the ATP tennis tour has issues with player involvement.
Players need to organize separately from the tournament promoters so they can work with all promoters willing to put up money for tournaments. The players organization should make their own sanctioning rules and ranking formulas so they decide rankings and tournament sanctioning.
Now that is strange. Pulpul was specifically asked where he stood in the BSCP/BMPAP battle and he said he was definitely not a BMPAP player and all he wanted to do was play pool.
Mike
Mike
vin said:
phoebe choy said:
I agree. No class. And ridiculous with all those empty seats.
LOL! Did he really understand what you asked? According to a signed and dated BMPAP Membership application form that I have in file, it seems like you misunderstood him or got played by him.AzHousePro said:
Ask him how he did in the BMPAP members-only Villiards Cup-Davao Panersera Pababa, then you'll get your answer.
Doesn't this kind of tell you about players' perception regarding the 2 orgs, BMPAP & BSCP/RAYA? These players are so at ease and relaxed in our events (Pulpul has played in 6 BMPAP events) while they feel put on the spot when in a BSCP/RAYA tournament needing to lie to just be comfortable being there.
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What is this about? I've posted straight-up in these forums so what are you referring to? Is it about Yen being in the red from the 2 WPCs and need to really get in the black with the WTBC? Is it about how they stirred the pot with their text messaging? Is Yen saying now that it wasn't his responsibility for kicking those players out of the Guinness Qualifier? What's still not posted here?jay helfert said:
