drivermaker
Banned
TATE said:
Hmmmm....if that's the case, where was my girl Mawissa on this thread?? That's her forte and could have solved it easily.
Idcues on E-Bay, Leonard and David Wale
- Thread starter TATE
- Start date
Hmmmm....if that's the case, where was my girl Mawissa on this thread?? That's her forte and could have solved it easily.
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
TATE said:
I hope you realize I was simply aiding to answer a question as to why Dick Abbot would still have photos of this cues.
That being said, Evan Clarke is "a" source for "most" things Schon. I've spoken to the man a few times and hold him in high regard. But, there were other people who worked at Schon Cues, as Evan didn't take over the operation until the early 90's. The provenance of this cue should be sought out with Bob Runde.
Maybe for s & g, I'll call up Evan and hear what he has to say. As an outsider, I might hear him differently.
Fred
Fred Agnir said:
Now I do. It lead to a point I wanted to make anyway.
I've asked Evan a lot of questions about the old cues - he worked on a lot of the first catalog cues too and has an incredible memory.
I didn't speak to Evan. I just have the original e-mail and a follow up. I think everyone is treading lightly at this point - I gather there is more to this....
Chris
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F
Fred Agnir
Guest
TATE said:
Okay, for some reason, I thought the site wasn't up any more.
I've read the ad, and my opinion (which means nothing) is that...
not weighing in on anyone's integrity, because that's not important, the ad was misleading. David, accidentally or not, you put the words "ovals in the butt sleeve and the point, being pierced by a black line. Since we onlyl see at any place "a single oval" being pierced by "a single black line," I think anyone could reasonably assume that there were radially balanced inlays by your term "ovals," without using the word "lines."
Also, anyone could reasonably assume that this was such a rarity, that explicit disclosure would be expected. "Disclosure" is an extreme word here, but that's how a buyer would view it. The rarity may have netted a higher bid.
That being said, I agree with Dick Abbott that it's highly unlikely this cue has been altered to "sand down" or otherwise remove the inlays on the other sides. So, if a good thing can come out of this, a Schon Collector got an extremely rare Schon.
If the buyer really wants his money back, for all parties involved, money back seems reasonable. Muddying up the seller's reputation however doesn't seem reasonable in my opinion.
Fred <~~~ will trade for it
Not seeing is believing...
Just as I thought, you never even had the cue in your hands. Incredulous...
I must hand it to you... and understand, this is coming from a "Professional Marketing Representitive" in the medical industry... you've done some incredible PR work here for your friend. Where exactly did you come up with the $3,000 figure? Given the transaction went off for less than a third of that, I am sure you are being sarcastic.
And with the rigid stand you've taken, and the certain lack of respect you have, for whomever created this "what appears to you as a butchered mess"... I'm sure you personally would decline any more than $500. Yes, I am positive now, glancing over the upstanding posts you have left for all to view, "That's what you would do."
You really never saw the cue? Seriously? Man, your balls are bigger than mine. I stand corrected.
David Wale
TATE said:
Just as I thought, you never even had the cue in your hands. Incredulous...
I must hand it to you... and understand, this is coming from a "Professional Marketing Representitive" in the medical industry... you've done some incredible PR work here for your friend. Where exactly did you come up with the $3,000 figure? Given the transaction went off for less than a third of that, I am sure you are being sarcastic.
And with the rigid stand you've taken, and the certain lack of respect you have, for whomever created this "what appears to you as a butchered mess"... I'm sure you personally would decline any more than $500. Yes, I am positive now, glancing over the upstanding posts you have left for all to view, "That's what you would do."
You really never saw the cue? Seriously? Man, your balls are bigger than mine. I stand corrected.
David Wale
Mr. Wale,
I have zero interest in either party.
That said, why so much resistence on a simple refund?
Is there a principal I'm unaware of at work?
In my business, I'd take it back and be done with it. All the rest is just not worth the trouble.
I just want to understand the "why" part of all this.
Dave
I have zero interest in either party.
That said, why so much resistence on a simple refund?
Is there a principal I'm unaware of at work?
In my business, I'd take it back and be done with it. All the rest is just not worth the trouble.
I just want to understand the "why" part of all this.
Dave
There it is...
Hey Joe,
I was wondering when somebody was going to throw that in... Then again, and not saying an overlooked mistake is okay, I would never have been in this mess had it been you, Sean Brown, Dick Abbott, Bob Jewitt, Fred A., J.J., M.K., or any serious collector. Because the first rule of thumb when buying, "If you don't see it ask why". Every auction we use to run included, "If there are any questions you may have, please ask before bidding."
This was a seven day auction, and we declined three other offers in just two days, before we ended it. I hope Tate is not teaching this guy to buy first and ask questions later. Not saying an overlooked mistake is right, just making a point. If you make a serious offer, and you ask somebody to end their auction, be sure about the item. It's extremely difficult for the same person to relist and sell an item after they've closed the auction prematurely. Now everybody wonders what the problem is even if there isn't a problem.
Take care Joe.
Regards,
David Wale
classiccues said:
Hey Joe,
I was wondering when somebody was going to throw that in... Then again, and not saying an overlooked mistake is okay, I would never have been in this mess had it been you, Sean Brown, Dick Abbott, Bob Jewitt, Fred A., J.J., M.K., or any serious collector. Because the first rule of thumb when buying, "If you don't see it ask why". Every auction we use to run included, "If there are any questions you may have, please ask before bidding."
This was a seven day auction, and we declined three other offers in just two days, before we ended it. I hope Tate is not teaching this guy to buy first and ask questions later. Not saying an overlooked mistake is right, just making a point. If you make a serious offer, and you ask somebody to end their auction, be sure about the item. It's extremely difficult for the same person to relist and sell an item after they've closed the auction prematurely. Now everybody wonders what the problem is even if there isn't a problem.
Take care Joe.
Regards,
David Wale
ldcues said:
David,
You've offered nothing to help your case. You have no information, did no research. You've offered nothing to this forum as a defense.
Your dad is the one to got you to even call Bill after you were avoiding the e-mails. You are a professional nothing.
Chris
How soon we forget...
Really? You had never even looked at it? Big ones man. Big ones. Do yourself a favor, think of all of the arguing you've done, and you never even saw the cue. Read your posts... Look at everything you've said... You never even saw the cue.
Now, as I told you before, there are many that will confirm this... I am no longer in this business. My father bought me out about six months ago. He is sitting on roughly 250 antique and collectible cues. They are neatly locked away in a gun safe and every now and again he'll ask me to put one on eBay for him. Check our eBay feedback, go over the dates of sales, it's all there. And stop answering every question by the seat of your pants. Do you even remeber what you wrote in the beginning. Your views have dramitically changed at least three times. And by the way, you are well aware the number you gave me to call was a fax number.
I'll leave you with something that absolutely blows my mind. When I told my father about this whole forum thing. He said, and I quote, "He trying to sell it on there." I respond with a laugh and point out the fact that you keep brutalizing the cue, not to mention I absolutely thought he was making light of the situation. He said, "Keep watching."
So, I guess the more I feed in to your talking in riddles and your not really, not REALLY taking a stand in any fixed position, I am helping you sell the cue. I mean, I new you were sneaky with the whole not seeing the cue for yourself and arguing to the death thing, but your devious as well. Just ask, the worst that could happen is I'll say no.
Just answer two questions for me. Just two, with direct answers this time. Don't ask any more questions until you have answered them. And don't answer with, "Well you won't do this and you won't do that". Just direct answers;
1. When did Evan Clarke say he had this cue in his shop?
2. Did you ever have this cue in your posession to inspect the whole "sanding down of the inlays" thing?
A date for the first. A simple yes or no for the second.
Dave
Really? You had never even looked at it? Big ones man. Big ones. Do yourself a favor, think of all of the arguing you've done, and you never even saw the cue. Read your posts... Look at everything you've said... You never even saw the cue.
Now, as I told you before, there are many that will confirm this... I am no longer in this business. My father bought me out about six months ago. He is sitting on roughly 250 antique and collectible cues. They are neatly locked away in a gun safe and every now and again he'll ask me to put one on eBay for him. Check our eBay feedback, go over the dates of sales, it's all there. And stop answering every question by the seat of your pants. Do you even remeber what you wrote in the beginning. Your views have dramitically changed at least three times. And by the way, you are well aware the number you gave me to call was a fax number.
I'll leave you with something that absolutely blows my mind. When I told my father about this whole forum thing. He said, and I quote, "He trying to sell it on there." I respond with a laugh and point out the fact that you keep brutalizing the cue, not to mention I absolutely thought he was making light of the situation. He said, "Keep watching."
So, I guess the more I feed in to your talking in riddles and your not really, not REALLY taking a stand in any fixed position, I am helping you sell the cue. I mean, I new you were sneaky with the whole not seeing the cue for yourself and arguing to the death thing, but your devious as well. Just ask, the worst that could happen is I'll say no.
Just answer two questions for me. Just two, with direct answers this time. Don't ask any more questions until you have answered them. And don't answer with, "Well you won't do this and you won't do that". Just direct answers;
1. When did Evan Clarke say he had this cue in his shop?
2. Did you ever have this cue in your posession to inspect the whole "sanding down of the inlays" thing?
A date for the first. A simple yes or no for the second.
Dave
ldcues said:
I did not inspect the cue, Evan did. Bill did too and I trust him.
I don't have to see the cue to recognize that your ad was misleading and possibly a con job.
Evan did not say when he had the cue in his shop, possibly to protect a third party from embarassment.
I can't force him to tell me - you have the e-mail.
Chris
You are obviously referring to this email that you sent to me;TATE said:
Hi,
When did tou get this cue, I have seen it an d it has some structural problems. It was repaied poorly by somebody and was so crooked that the inlay on one side was machined out. I declined to perform any work on it. Sorry for the bad news…Evan Clarke
Your right, what was I thinking? Evan had the cue in his shop. You don't know when, but he did. The structural problems were so bad, he declined the work. But then, a mystery person worked on the cue that had been so crooked and repaired so poorly. And low and behold a beautiful butterfly appears from the mystery cue repairman's shop. (Who must be a damn cue repair genious to fix the horrible structural problems not to mention straighten the obvious warp it once had without affecting the evenness or esthetic beauty of any of the four points) I must not be thinking straight.
You never even had the cue in your hands?
You never even had the cue in your hands!
Dave
ldcues said:
Yes, you are right. I never had the cue in my hands.
If you read Evan's e-mail again, he saw it after the cue was modified and left with the one inlay.
Like I said, I spoke to Bob Runde on the phone and know how the cue was originally made.
I will post on it later today or tomorrow.
Again, please read Evan Clarke's e-mail.
Chris
The Evan Clarke E-Mail
Since David Wale questioned the authenticity of the Evan Clarke e-mail, I am posting a copy of it here with just our e-mail addresses blacked out. hs is a screen shot. When I quoted him I just corrected spelling errors out of courtesy - we all type fast:
Since David Wale questioned the authenticity of the Evan Clarke e-mail, I am posting a copy of it here with just our e-mail addresses blacked out. hs is a screen shot. When I quoted him I just corrected spelling errors out of courtesy - we all type fast:
Attachments
Part 1
As I stated, Evan Clarke is the leading authority in the world on Schon Cues.
I respect Schon Cues, Evan Clarke, and Bob Runde. I do not need to know them as people, I can just pick up their work in my hands and respect them 100%. I can see in my hands the perfectionism and drive that have made them build some of the best playing cues and most technically excellent hand made cues ever, their own way, to their own specifications.
Here is a little site I put together as a reference and to show our small collections:
http://www.palmercollector.com/Schon/SchonPage.html
Continued...
ldcues said:
As I stated, Evan Clarke is the leading authority in the world on Schon Cues.
I respect Schon Cues, Evan Clarke, and Bob Runde. I do not need to know them as people, I can just pick up their work in my hands and respect them 100%. I can see in my hands the perfectionism and drive that have made them build some of the best playing cues and most technically excellent hand made cues ever, their own way, to their own specifications.
Here is a little site I put together as a reference and to show our small collections:
http://www.palmercollector.com/Schon/SchonPage.html
Continued...
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