If Bonus Ball Wants To Be Successful...

watchez

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
With the schedule now starting January 3rd

- they should put it off til the beginning of February. Trying to boost the marketing of their game as a kickoff thru the holiday season is going to be a lost cause. Too many people are thinking of their families, their parties, their last minute Xmas shopping to figure out when or even if they should watch Bonus Ball. Then in January, any sports fan is tuned into the NFL playoffs.

- they should make peace (and that is probably too strong of a statement) with Mark Griffin and the DCC organizers. Get a booth with a table at the DCC - have all of the Bonus Ball Pros be at the booth, promoting the game throughout the enitire week - showing the game. Have the Pros walk around in their jerseys. Make all the other players jealous. You would be amazed at what that does for participation, attendance and interest. Have the Pros announced for their matches as Bonus Ball Player Pro Johnny Archer or whatever. Have the booth selling the jerseys, hats, towels, whatever they can put a logo on. Have people 'take the game' of Bonus Ball home with them so word spreads.

- finsih their season in June or early July. Then approach Mark Griffin again and say you want to have the Bonus Ball individual championships in Vega$ in July during the BCAPL. Run a singles tournament for your Pros. Have it be free admission at least for the first year. Set up another booth - another two weeks of selling your idea to 6,000+ pool enthusiats. I certainly don't want to speak for Mark but he is a very approachable guy. And I never got the impression he is ultra competitive.

If their backing is 100% and not some short sighted shot in the dark, any one should only wish them well. I do think the game of Bonus Ball is what will make them fail. One thing the IPT did right was choosing 8 ball. A game that any bar banger understands and game most players began playing first in a friends basement.
 
watchez said:
With the schedule now starting January 3rd

- they should put it off til the beginning of February. Trying to boost the marketing of their game as a kickoff thru the holiday season is going to be a lost cause. Too many people are thinking of their families, their parties, their last minute Xmas shopping to figure out when or even if they should watch Bonus Ball. Then in January, any sports fan is tuned into the NFL playoffs.

- they should make peace (and that is probably too strong of a statement) with Mark Griffin and the DCC organizers. Get a booth with a table at the DCC - have all of the Bonus Ball Pros be at the booth, promoting the game throughout the enitire week - showing the game. Have the Pros walk around in their jerseys. Make all the other players jealous. You would be amazed at what that does for participation, attendance and interest. Have the Pros announced for their matches as Bonus Ball Player Pro Johnny Archer or whatever. Have the booth selling the jerseys, hats, towels, whatever they can put a logo on. Have people 'take the game' of Bonus Ball home with them so word spreads.

- finsih their season in June or early July. Then approach Mark Griffin again and say you want to have the Bonus Ball individual championships in Vega$ in July during the BCAPL. Run a singles tournament for your Pros. Have it be free admission at least for the first year. Set up another booth - another two weeks of selling your idea to 6,000+ pool enthusiats. I certainly don't want to speak for Mark but he is a very approachable guy. And I never got the impression he is ultra competitive.

If their backing is 100% and not some short sighted shot in the dark, any one should only wish them well. I do think the game of Bonus Ball is what will make them fail. One thing the IPT did right was choosing 8 ball. A game that any bar banger understands and game most players began playing first in a friends basement.
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That sounds like the perfect thing for bonus ball to do or anybody else, dont try to compete with DCC, use them and their space to promote your own (BONUS BALL) idea, i just cant see all these players that are going to take part in bonus ball, wanting to miss DERBY CITY CLASSIC its the biggest thing going on in the pool world once a year! Great idea WATCHES!
 
watchez said:
I do think the game of Bonus Ball is what will make them fail. One thing the IPT did right was choosing 8 ball. A game that any bar banger understands and game most players began playing first in a friends basement.
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This is the best point. Over complicating the rules and making it hard to follow will not bring new players/fans in. I don't understand why people think they need to reinvent the wheel.
 
If bonus ball wants to be successful it has to do some kind of advertising. Nobody knows about this game.
I play on a couple of different leagues, play a lot of tournaments, hang out in different pool halls and anywhere I go no one even heard about Bonus Ball when I mention it.
The only reason I know about it is because I read az billiards.
 
I have to kind of disagree on the 8 ball versus BB aspect..

With traditional games like 8 ball and nineball, it is easy for bangers to watch and 1) still not understand the intricacies of the games and 2) See how horrible they really are at the game.

Introducing a new game like BB that requires agression, banking etc... lends itself to one of the things that draw fans to watching sports, the false idea in their minds that on a good day they might be able to compete with them.

In a game like nineball, no APA 4-6 can watch pros play and say, on a good day, I could do that.

It becomes disheartening to watch.

High school footballers can watch football in their twenties and thirties and it reminds them of the good times of competing and gives them the illusion that if they had stuck with it, they could be right there.

People watching golf, when they showcase the pro who hit it into the woods or the water hazard, or the sand trap, can see that and say, yeah I do that too.

I think that using teams and an aggressive game that will foster at least the appearance of mistakes will HELP to draw in the less informed player and make it MORE interesting to watch, not less.

Jaden
 
Sorry Jaden - I disagree. People associate themselves because they understand the game and the rules. They understand that they can't run a 4.3 forty or kick a 50 yard FG or slam a basketball or hit a 400 foot homerun but they still watch because they understand the game. When leagues such as the XFL come along and try to change the rules of football, no one watched. It was still the football right - but just different rules. That equals failure.

Why did hockey become more popular (until they ruined it with the current strike) -- because they dummied down the rules. The public had to understand what they were watching to make it viable for TV. They took away the two line pass. They let the players play more and the guy sitting in his chair that didn't grow up in Minnesota or North Dakota understand the game better.

Sports are successful with more offense - people like people to be successful. They don't want to watch a Pro do something they can do. They want to watch Tiger hit flop shots, 350 yard drives, Jordan take off from the free throw line and fly to the basket, Eli Manning throw 50 yard bombs, Nolan Ryan throw it 103 mph and Pujols hit 40 home runs a season. Oh and they want to watch SVB break and run a 6 pack.
 
Don't get me wrong...

watchez said:
Sorry Jaden - I disagree. People associate themselves because they understand the game and the rules. They understand that they can't run a 4.3 forty or kick a 50 yard FG or slam a basketball or hit a 400 foot homerun but they still watch because they understand the game. When leagues such as the XFL come along and try to change the rules of football, no one watched. It was still the football right - but just different rules. That equals failure.

Why did hockey become more popular (until they ruined it with the current strike) -- because they dummied down the rules. The public had to understand what they were watching to make it viable for TV. They took away the two line pass. They let the players play more and the guy sitting in his chair that didn't grow up in Minnesota or North Dakota understand the game better.

Sports are successful with more offense - people like people to be successful. They don't want to watch a Pro do something they can do. They want to watch Tiger hit flop shots, 350 yard drives, Jordan take off from the free throw line and fly to the basket, Eli Manning throw 50 yard bombs, Nolan Ryan throw it 103 mph and Pujols hit 40 home runs a season. Oh and they want to watch SVB break and run a 6 pack.
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I agree that they want to see those things, but in every person that watches, there is that part of them that wants to do those things TOO...

If every part of what they watch is just shattering the illusion they create for themselves, it becomes boring to watch.

It's the mistakes that balance the amazing and makes it overall enjoyable to watch.

Jaden
 
You are right - go to any pool tournament. The match with the two C players banging it into the rails has the biggest crowd because people can relate to those players and don't want to shatter their illusion.
The match with SVB vs Alex has no one watching.

TAR 30 --I'll let the cat out the bag before JCIN makes the announcement tonight on the pod cast. It is what you and everyone else has been waiting for. It is going to be me vs Disco shooting ball in hand spot shots. We are going to use different colored balls in each round. The viewership should be well over 10,000 PPV.
 
You're not hearing what I'm talking about...

watchez said:
You are right - go to any pool tournament. The match with the two C players banging it into the rails has the biggest crowd because people can relate to those players and don't want to shatter their illusion.
The match with SVB vs Alex has no one watching.

TAR 30 --I'll let the cat out the bag before JCIN makes the announcement tonight on the pod cast. It is what you and everyone else has been waiting for. It is going to be me vs Disco shooting ball in hand spot shots. We are going to use different colored balls in each round. The viewership should be well over 10,000 PPV.
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The die hard fan will be there no matter what. I'm not talking about them. Forget about them, they are about as useless to getting pool to be hugely successful as "an asshole right here (pointing to elbow)" (forgive the kill bill reference).

I'm talking about drawing in the banger and the recreational player and the player whose dad bought a pool table for their basement just for the hell of it and for the person who doesn't even really play pool.

I"m talking about an overall package of marketing and presentation that has to have certain elements to draw the most people.

I'm not even saying that BB has them. I'm just saying that it's possible with the right marketing that it might and we should give it a chance.

Jaden
 
Then you really make no sense as you now have completely flipped on what you are saying -- do you want the guy that is a true fan that played football in high school or do you want the casual fan that can't throw a football?

The banger won't be drawn in to watch a game they have never heard of or played themselves. Period. End of stoy.

Beyond that, I'll end this discussion with you as to be blunt, you don't get it.
 
What will make it succeed is revenue.

Ultimately it's not what's best for the players or pool. It's what's best for the consumer. There just aren't enough consumers that will spend money to watch great games we already know and love let alone something new.

Everyone keeps saying that they can get subs to spare when there are other events but then the whole team would have to be subs. Players are going to have to pick one or the other.

As a PPV consumer, I'm afraid BB is going to cripple existing events I love to watch.
 
watchez said:
With the schedule now starting January 3rd

- they should put it off til the beginning of February. Trying to boost the marketing of their game as a kickoff thru the holiday season is going to be a lost cause. Too many people are thinking of their families, their parties, their last minute Xmas shopping to figure out when or even if they should watch Bonus Ball. Then in January, any sports fan is tuned into the NFL playoffs.

- they should make peace (and that is probably too strong of a statement) with Mark Griffin and the DCC organizers. Get a booth with a table at the DCC - have all of the Bonus Ball Pros be at the booth, promoting the game throughout the enitire week - showing the game. Have the Pros walk around in their jerseys. Make all the other players jealous. You would be amazed at what that does for participation, attendance and interest. Have the Pros announced for their matches as Bonus Ball Player Pro Johnny Archer or whatever. Have the booth selling the jerseys, hats, towels, whatever they can put a logo on. Have people 'take the game' of Bonus Ball home with them so word spreads.

- finsih their season in June or early July. Then approach Mark Griffin again and say you want to have the Bonus Ball individual championships in Vega$ in July during the BCAPL. Run a singles tournament for your Pros. Have it be free admission at least for the first year. Set up another booth - another two weeks of selling your idea to 6,000+ pool enthusiats. I certainly don't want to speak for Mark but he is a very approachable guy. And I never got the impression he is ultra competitive.

If their backing is 100% and not some short sighted shot in the dark, any one should only wish them well. I do think the game of Bonus Ball is what will make them fail. One thing the IPT did right was choosing 8 ball. A game that any bar banger understands and game most players began playing first in a friends basement.
Click to expand...

I think you have an absolutely fantastic idea set here. While I was reading, the first thing I thought of was how Joe V. sets up a pool table to promote his dvd's. BB could set up a 9ft table at their booth and have challenge matches where you can play the game with some of the BB pros. That way people can learn the game and get an experience at the same time.

I think that would go a long way to promote their game. I am not sure what their end game is. Are they trying to take over the market or integrate themselves into the already established pool community. I know myself for one will not quit playing the traditional games I am used to.
 
Who wants to develop something that is popular with the masses? Are these not the same people that you call madmen? Is it the allurement of money and recognition that drives this sort of behavior?
 
I agree with everything u said.. 8 ball is the game for the masses.No questions asked.ppl know 8 ball.Even the bonus ball players don't know bonus ball...I however wish it the best and will be in Vegas sweating some of it.I hope it works.Complicated game for an apa 3 ranked player to grasp though.
 
watchez said:
Sorry Jaden - I disagree. People associate themselves because they understand the game and the rules. They understand that they can't run a 4.3 forty or kick a 50 yard FG or slam a basketball or hit a 400 foot homerun but they still watch because they understand the game. When leagues such as the XFL come along and try to change the rules of football, no one watched. It was still the football right - but just different rules. That equals failure.

Why did hockey become more popular (until they ruined it with the current strike) -- because they dummied down the rules. The public had to understand what they were watching to make it viable for TV. They took away the two line pass. They let the players play more and the guy sitting in his chair that didn't grow up in Minnesota or North Dakota understand the game better.

Sports are successful with more offense - people like people to be successful. They don't want to watch a Pro do something they can do. They want to watch Tiger hit flop shots, 350 yard drives, Jordan take off from the free throw line and fly to the basket, Eli Manning throw 50 yard bombs, Nolan Ryan throw it 103 mph and Pujols hit 40 home runs a season. Oh and they want to watch SVB break and run a 6 pack.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to disagree with you, watchez, but I will say that not all people watch sports for the reason you cite. My wife and I are two of them. We love watching pro football and pro basketball. We've never been able to get into collegiate football and basketball because there are too many teams and schedules to try to keep up with. But with the pro ranks, we have our favorite teams, and their schedules and standings are easy to follow, and those are the things that are more important to us than the particular rules they play by. The reason they are important is because our favorite teams are always the teams where we live (or the closest to our location). In other words, they are OUR teams. They represent us when they are out on the court or the field. We identify with them. And we knew very little about the rules when we first started watching years ago, but we stuck with it and learned.

I believe Bonus Ball might have a decent chance at developing a respectable following for the same reason. People will start to identify with one team or another, and all the rules and nuances of the game will be learned later.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
I'm not going to disagree with you, watchez, but I will say that not all people watch sports for the reason you cite. My wife and I are two of them. We love watching pro football and pro basketball. We've never been able to get into collegiate football and basketball because there are too many teams and schedules to try to keep up with. But with the pro ranks, we have our favorite teams, and their schedules and standings are easy to follow, and those are the things that are more important to us than the particular rules they play by. The reason they are important is because our favorite teams are always the teams where we live (or the closest to our location). In other words, they are OUR teams. They represent us when they are out on the court or the field. We identify with them. And we knew very little about the rules when we first started watching years ago, but we stuck with it and learned.

I believe Bonus Ball might have a decent chance at developing a respectable following for the same reason. People will start to identify with one team or another, and all the rules and nuances of the game will be learned later.

Roger
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BB still has to many safes on the end game to make it interesting for me and as long as safes outrun shots as the primary goal to win a game then it's not what interests me. IMO
Canwin
 
canwin said:
BB still has to many safes on the end game to make it interesting for me and as long as safes outrun shots as the primary goal to win a game then it's not what interests me. IMO
Canwin
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The end game safes are rare and when they do happen they are two way shots that are still entertaining because they are banks.
 
BB is competing for viewers against very other stream on weekends. That's where the revenue is gonna come from.
 
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