If I was promoting major pool tournaments!

[Luxury]

I've always thought that all the millions of casual pool players that see pool on tv and watch a bunch of safeties in a row will naturally turn the channel.

But what if a bunch of banks and cut shots were being played at a faster pace of speed? Of course they would be able to relate more and be more entertained.

Save all the strategic safety play for non televised matches.

 

[realkingcobra]

I've always thought that all the millions of casual pool players that see pool on tv and watch a bunch of safeties in a row will naturally turn the channel.

But what if a bunch of banks and cut shots were being played at a faster pace of speed? Of course they would be able to relate more and be more entertained.

Save all the strategic safety play for non televised matches.

Ask yourself why a kid wants to be like any Professional baseball player, basketball player, football player....or any other Professional sports figure...it's not because they play so great....it's because they get PAID so much

Glen

 

[cueandcushion]

When is the next event? At the Cue and Custion.?????

We are going to have an invitational handicapped 3 Cushion tourny. Date unknown. In June sometime I think.

 

[Mike in MN]

That's certainly ONE of the problems but in my opinion the biggest problem is the rules and games played on tv aren't entertaining enough to sit and watch and if the rules and format were changed it could be very entertaining for tv viewers.

Luxury, I respectfully disagree. I think that's kind of a subjective statement. I, for one, thoroughly enjoy watching pool on TV and the internet. It's all a matter of taste. I have friends who love playing golf, but can't stand to watch it. Same goes for pool. It's a game millions love, but not everyone loves to watch. But, I still think if it were marketed a little better, it would have a decent following.

 

[Luxury]

Luxury, I respectfully disagree. I think that's kind of a subjective statement. I, for one, thoroughly enjoy watching pool on TV and the internet. It's all a matter of taste. I have friends who love playing golf, but can't stand to watch it. Same goes for pool. It's a game millions love, but not everyone loves to watch. But, I still think if it were marketed a little better, it would have a decent following.

I love watching pool on tv and the internet as well. I watched my dvr recording of Gerda winning her first tourney in a decade earlier today for the second time and watched Wu vs Alcano on youtube just a bit ago. Yesterday I watched all three of Mika Immonen's instructional videos.

I'm not sure what you disagree with. If it WAS entertaining enough it would be on tv more often due to higher ratings. Things can always be improved to become more entertaining. You haven't even heard my format ideas yet.

Anyway, Keep shooting well. I'm off to bed.

 

[jay helfert]

I have to say I've never really cared about the formats in which major pool tournaments are ran, I just don't think it brings out the best in the players, and causes to many arguments, so IF...I was promoting major pool tournaments...this would be the format:

10/9/8 ball tournaments:

Match starts on a 2 hour clock, meaning players WILL be playing their match for exactly 2 hours.

Wining that match would be decided by who has more wins at the end of 2 hours of play...OR...by receiving a knockout win by obtaining a 10 ahead spread over your opposite at any time during that 2 hour match. The knock out rule is to keep from dragging out lopsided matches for 2 hours.

Winner always breaks.

In the event of a tied score at the ding of the 2 hour bell, one last game is played after the bell to determine the winner.

If at the ding of the bell, the players are in the middle of a game, and that game won't change the out come of the winner, then that game is ended with no winner.

Between 2 hour sessions there would be a 30 min break before the next round starts, this 30 min break would be for then next round of players to warm up.

Under this format, players would know exactly when they were playing next, and exactly how long. Slow playing matches would have no effect on the 2 hour format.

I have other formats for 1 pocket and bank pool as well which would change how the tournaments are played playing this games too.

Glen

Thanks for sharing Glen. I love ya baby, but I'd suggest you stick to being a great table mechanic. I could give you about ten reasons why your idea is either unworkable or illogical, but I'll spare us both the aggravation right now.

Of course someday when you are sponsoring tournaments, you can do it your way. And perhaps you will. Then you'll find out that running an event is not as easy as it looks, and making it fair for all concerned is just part of the job. Ultimately players will play in a tournament with any format if the money is right. They may not like it, but they will do their best to figure out how to outsmart their opponent.

I never liked the format for the Challenge of Champions; two sets, race to five and a one game tiebreaker. The players hate it too, but for $50,000 they won't pass it up if invited. Fifty grand is fifty grand!

P.S. At least with a shot clock your idea becomes workable. I'd prefer to see a race to a certain number, with a two hour time limit on the match.

 

[jay helfert]

Ask yourself why a kid wants to be like any Professional baseball player, basketball player, football player....or any other Professional sports figure...it's not because they play so great....it's because they get PAID so much

Glen

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

 

[realkingcobra]

Thanks for sharing Glen. I love ya baby, but I'd suggest you stick to being a great table mechanic. I could give you about ten reasons why your idea is either unworkable or illogical, but I'll spare us both the aggravation right now.

Of course someday when you are sponsoring tournaments, you can do it your way. And perhaps you will. Then you'll find out that running an event is not as easy as it looks, and making it fair for all concerned is just part of the job. Ultimately players will play in a tournament with any format if the money is right. They may not like it, but they will do their best to figure out how to outsmart their opponent.

I never liked the format for the Challenge of Champions; two sets, race to five and a one game tiebreaker. The players hate it too, but for $50,000 they won't pass it up if invited. Fifty grand is fifty grand!

P.S. At least with a shot clock your idea becomes workable. I'd prefer to see a race to a certain number, with a two hour time limit on the match.

It's all about skill level testing to get to the ranks of the Pro's, not about winning qualifiers

 

[oldzilla]

With all the great streaming i;m not sure if pool will need TV to get where it needs to go. Someday TV may need pool more than pool has ever need TV. Savy? The internet is taking over alot of stuff. Mail , newspapers, magazines, shopping, just to mention a few.

I think RCK's idea would be a good test for the top level players and could be the defining element of professionalism.
I think somehow seeding the 4 regional rounds would be neccessary.
The format flowchart would amost be looking like the NCAA BB tournament. Hmmm you know how popular that is !

Shot clock is a big factor that is needed. For instance baseball golf no shot clock=boring. Football basketball hockey clock winding down=excitment. See what i mean !

I remember a pro tour event that i think Hatch won that did use a game clock with 2- 20 minute halves i think. Also i think the rules were a bit differrent. the incoming player could give back the shot !
Jay am i right ?

Anyway i think it was great and very exciting as some of the best had to take fliers at very difficult shots. the saftey game seemed to be a moot point in this event.

I may have an old vhs tape of the espn coverage.
They did throw that format under the bus. Prolly because the players did not like it. TV viewers had to be entertained, i was.

nuff for now, ttyl.

 

[Island Drive]

So, if you have 32 players, you have 16 first round matches....32 table hours(Thrs), then your second round A you have 8 matches...16 Thrs. And your second round B has 8 matches...16 Thrs. And the next round of B is another 8 matches ...16 Thrs. This adds up to 80 Thrs. So, if you have 8 tables, to get this far has taken 10 hours. you have had two half hour breaks...so 11 hours. if you have started at 10 am Saturday....you are now at 9pm. And have used 8 tables all day.

Now for next round of B, you have 4 matches(16Thrs) with 4 tables needed. And the A has 4 matches on 4 tables. So, you have used all 8 tables for 2 more hours to get here. it is now 11pm.

You have used 8 table from 10 am to 11pm. I dont know how big the halls would be, but if it doesn't have 16 plus tables, you are severely cutting intothe prime Saturday evening crowd. Anyway...

Sunday morning rolls around and you have to play still the semis and finals in A....and a round of 4 matches on B, as well as 2 rounds of 2 matches, and so on.

This is for 32 players with your format. I think this clearly shows that you do not understand the logistics or the business of pool. This is simply not a good venture. Can you imaginr the table and time requirements for a 64 player event?

The unfortunate thing is, many owners might actaully try this ridiculous plan. And then they would be turned off tournaments. I think you should stay out of pool promotion, you are bad for the game. An ignorant dreamer.

So why does one's thoughts make him/her an ignorant dreamer? The WBT (worldbilliardtour.com) concept, allows the room owner with only ten pool tables to play up 80 players at the same time starting before lunch and down to one table by 9-10pm, no hotel needed, no Sunday play etc. am I having a bad dream too?

 

[realkingcobra]

One of the BIGGEST faults of pool tournaments....is the double elimination format, because of that....it severely limits the number of players...and seriously extends the length of the tournament...and waiting times for players to play WHAT other Professional sport uses a double elimination format???? I would rather play much longer races to determine the winner of a match, before I'd opt for the double format...besides, I think it's unfair to the player that goes all the way undefeated to win the winners side...only to have to face a challenger from the LOSER'S side!

Glen

 

[Island Drive]

One of the BIGGEST faults of pool tournaments....is the double elimination format, because of that....it severely limits the number of players...and seriously extends the length of the tournament...and waiting times for players to play WHAT other Professional sport uses a double elimination format???? I would rather play much longer races to determine the winner of a match, before I'd opt for the double format...besides, I think it's unfair to the player that goes all the way undefeated to win the winners side...only to have to face a challenger from the LOSER'S side!

Glen

My WBT is dbl elim.............

 

[realkingcobra]

My WBT is dbl elim.............

You can't run a world series of pool...using a double elimination format, but you can break the world of players down into brackets based on a skill level test and run a Pro, Semi-Pro, advanced, and amateur world tournament

Glen

 

[jay helfert]

One of the BIGGEST faults of pool tournaments....is the double elimination format, because of that....it severely limits the number of players...and seriously extends the length of the tournament...and waiting times for players to play WHAT other Professional sport uses a double elimination format???? I would rather play much longer races to determine the winner of a match, before I'd opt for the double format...besides, I think it's unfair to the player that goes all the way undefeated to win the winners side...only to have to face a challenger from the LOSER'S side!

Glen

If the day ever came when there was actually a professional tour with real money to be won in regularly scheduled events, THEN. I would prefer to see Single Elimination tournaments as well, similar to what we now see in professional tennis. Two out of Three, Races to Nine (seven, eight?) and now you have an excellent match. Potentially a long match if it goes three sets, but half as many matches in total as in a Double Elimination event.

You could play 128 players in four days on eight tables, something that can't be done today.

 

[Fatboy]

And pool will get less and less tv coverage in a world with shorter and shorter attention spans unless it's overhauled big time.

Snooker matches in the UK can last hours and hours with the same 2 players and they are doing good with that format.


I have sat with Glen for hours discussing this format, while I dont agree with him 100% he is on to something.

 

[pooladdiction]

One of the BIGGEST faults of pool tournaments....is the double elimination format, because of that....it severely limits the number of players...and seriously extends the length of the tournament...and waiting times for players to play WHAT other Professional sport uses a double elimination format???? I would rather play much longer races to determine the winner of a match, before I'd opt for the double format...besides, I think it's unfair to the player that goes all the way undefeated to win the winners side...only to have to face a challenger from the LOSER'S side!

Glen

I completely agree! Honestly the only person who is helped by double elimination is the room owner, who wants you to stick around and eat or drink something.

 

[realkingcobra]

Take this a little further guys...imagine if you will...1024 pool rooms around the world with at least 8 9ft tables each, all paying $500 per location, $512,000 total payed in...to my orginazion...as 100% added money...to go along with the already added money...from "a sponsor"...with each location hosting the first leg of the "World Series of Pool"...ending up with the final 1,028 first place players advancing on to the world finals...BUT....before a player can participant in this "World Series of Pool"...each player MUST take a rating test in order to be classified as to WHICH division they're playing in...either "PRO"..."SEMI-PRO"..."ADVANCED"....OR..."AMATURE"...at a cost of $100 per person...per test, plus $50 to the "Official" administering the skill level testing....AND...any player can repeat the skill level test as many times as he/she wishes in order to improve their standings...until the cut off date when all scores are final!....And there's even more....

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

I know, you're all probably thinking why would 1,024 rooms participate in something like this event...what's in it for them for their $500...well, how about the idea that which ever pool room produces the "Amateur" and "Advanced" world champion player....will receive 8 brand new 9ft Diamond ProAms as an additional first place prize...that's only worth about $50,000 or so to the location owner of each division

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

If the day ever came when there was actually a professional tour with real money to be won in regularly scheduled events, THEN. I would prefer to see Single Elimination tournaments as well, similar to what we now see in professional tennis. Two out of Three, Races to Nine (seven, eight?) and now you have an excellent match. Potentially a long match if it goes three sets, but half as many matches in total as in a Double Elimination event.

You could play 128 players in four days on eight tables, something that can't be done today.

Jay, the way I see things, I think you have to first build a real world championship tournament that defines who the real world champion is at that moment, in what ever game of pool is being played in that world championship tournament...THEN...use that next up coming world championship tournament....to build a real "Pro" tour...as a build up to the up coming "World Championship of Pool"....year after year.

Glen

 

[danquixote]

Yes 4774 posts to 14 posts. And the poster admitted he has never run a pool tourney. Well, that is certainly obvious.

Anyone with any sense at all can work out the numbers. To have just 32 players in your hall dominating 8 tables is not good business. And have any of you considered that by strict times on the matches, you are inviting the players to leave the hall, and not spend money?

The majority here have no idea what they are talking about, but have been bitten by the "pool" bug, and want to sound knowledgeable or on the "in". Trust me, it isn't working.

However, you are the exact players that would SO benefit from having someone to guide you along, hand feed you proper events so that you could actually become players in the know.

The reaon I have 14 posts is because the vast majority of people in here are completely and utterly ignorant. And when you present clear and well thought out posts, people can not seem to understand. So, generally i just leave the ignorant masses to themselves. It is too bad for pool that such a large group of obviously avid pool players cannot open their eyes and minds, and actually help the game.

Those of you that think you have all the answers.......really piss off we that do. Having been relegated in your mind as a member of "the ignorant mass" and being incapable of coherent thought .....the following should come as no surprise......Glen, I commend you for putting so much thought and time into developing what could turn out to be a real boon to all who play. If you develop a similar format for team tournys, I'm gonna call my team......The ignorant masses......you have an open invitation to join us:wink: