So the Pro division pays 3x more than Semi-pros ect. ect. ?
or more ?
or more ?
If I was promoting major pool tournaments!
- Thread starter realkingcobra
- Start date
The Pro's would pay from the bottom up, all other divisions would pay from the top down.
PS. Forgot to add that all 128 pro players would be required to sign their names on the finals table, because the finals table with all the pro's signing it along with a certificate to verify the world tournament that the table was used in...would be raffled off to the world audience, and all proceeds would be split evenly between all Pro players.
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Because of there only being 128 Pro's playing in a "Pro" event, decided by the highest skill level test scoring possible, then ALL the Pro's would be paid a minimum amount from their first match lost, up to the winner of the event.
Below the Pro's would be the "Semi-Pro's" made up of the next 256 players, with 50% of the field paid. In the event that a qualified Pro could not attend the major event, the highest rated semi-pro would be invited to take the Pro players spot, so there would be no bye's in the Pro events.
Glen, I think it has value....truth be told, I do think you could move it over to your local events for a little Wednesday night tourney.....it would take some thought, but how nice would it be to know, based on the people that showed up, exactly how long the event would last....
30 minutes
Use chess clocks or other easy timer with pre-set 30 second limit
There would have to be some extra thought into handicap events
Far too many times, tournaments can get held up by 1 or 2 really slow players.....honestly, a shot clock, in any timed tournament or just a standard race, is really needed at any event....hell, even in league, there are a couple of teams I absolutely hate playing because watching these people makes me feel like I am gonna pass out....
30 minutes
Use chess clocks or other easy timer with pre-set 30 second limit
There would have to be some extra thought into handicap events
Far too many times, tournaments can get held up by 1 or 2 really slow players.....honestly, a shot clock, in any timed tournament or just a standard race, is really needed at any event....hell, even in league, there are a couple of teams I absolutely hate playing because watching these people makes me feel like I am gonna pass out....
Look, skill level testing before a major event will for sure produce the best of the best players for any single event at the moment. I realize that most people would believe that there is more than 64, 128, 256, or even 512 Professional players in the world...who knows, there might be even more. But, there are several problems with this, number one....you can't pay all players enough to make a living playing pool, so...you have to draw the line somewhere and decide who's going to play, and who's not. I'm not the one setting the bar or line to decide who's a Pro...the players will be doing that...on a curve grade score. Allen Hopkins has a great skill level test to decide who's at a pro level of playing any game of rotation, and I like it a lot and feel it would work perfect in supporting this kind of format in order to decide who plays and who don't...at all the different skill levels. This form of testing can also be broke down by age, or sex if one wanted to, in order to have 18 and under Junior World championship tournaments, or womens world championships for all that matter.
The point is...there has to be some sort of line that has to be crossed in order to be a Professional in this sport....in my opinion....to call it a Sport.
Skill level testing in no way is going to test a persons ability to see how they're going to match up with another player, in no way is it going to show if a player is going to choke on a shot when the moment is there to do or die. It's not going to show anyone if a player has nerves of steel, or ice water running through their veins instead of blood.
BUT...what it will do...is eliminate a lot of players....that SHOULDN'T be there...in a "Pro" world event!!!!...and back them up to where they really belong....and that's at a skill level equal to those around them.
I personally have no problem with calling the best 128 players on earth "Pro's"....as long as they earn it, and after they've earned that title....I feel they should at least expect to get paid something....even if they lost in the first 2 hours of playing...cutting the field down to 64 "Pro" players...which are now...the best of the best...still remaining to find out just how they place in the world of "Pro's" as well.
But man,....what an EVENT to watch....and THAT"S what I'm talking about, and THAT'S what it's going to take to change pool....into a SPORT!
Glen
The point is...there has to be some sort of line that has to be crossed in order to be a Professional in this sport....in my opinion....to call it a Sport.
Skill level testing in no way is going to test a persons ability to see how they're going to match up with another player, in no way is it going to show if a player is going to choke on a shot when the moment is there to do or die. It's not going to show anyone if a player has nerves of steel, or ice water running through their veins instead of blood.
BUT...what it will do...is eliminate a lot of players....that SHOULDN'T be there...in a "Pro" world event!!!!...and back them up to where they really belong....and that's at a skill level equal to those around them.
I personally have no problem with calling the best 128 players on earth "Pro's"....as long as they earn it, and after they've earned that title....I feel they should at least expect to get paid something....even if they lost in the first 2 hours of playing...cutting the field down to 64 "Pro" players...which are now...the best of the best...still remaining to find out just how they place in the world of "Pro's" as well.
But man,....what an EVENT to watch....and THAT"S what I'm talking about, and THAT'S what it's going to take to change pool....into a SPORT!
Glen
Glen - Thanks for the response, I think that cleared up how it would be payed out.
As far as your skills test goes, there was a similar movement in the 80's championed by Jerry Briesath (I believe) based on the Equal Offense game. I have some vintage Billiard Digest magazines where this was talked about a lot. The idea was similar, they were trying to get tournaments based off it and have high score competitions but it apparently never took off. Maybe someone remembers how this all went down?
Eric
I like your ideas. Off the top of my head, I think it's going to be hard to quickly ramp-up 1024 rooms ......or talk the leagues into common rules, but if you can start off small and slowly ramp up (eventually), then you may be on to something.
I really think if you can provide that kind money, the players will come to compete for it regarless of format (I guess Jay already said that).
What's important, above all else though, is the pool, the game, the format... HAS to be entertaining to the general public. You have to get this on TV broadcasts. You HAVE to be able to get people to watch on a large scale to get sponsors to put up big money.
I think the idea of time-limited matches and shot-clocks would go a long way to do this.. but people have to want to watch the players. They have to either root for, like/love, or hate the players at the table to get viewership so that the sponsor makes a return on the investment.
You brought up NASCAR several times in this thread, and I think it's a good example of how good marketing for the drivers and an exciting format can get millions of people watching. However, in a NASCAR race, you have all the cars on the track at the same time. How do you get Joe-Smoe to watch two people play that he doesn't care a flip about? How do you get people (other than the competitors) entertained?
IMHO, most professional sports are more about entertainment than the 'best' competition. Sure, competition is often entertaining, ... but not always.
I really think if you can provide that kind money, the players will come to compete for it regarless of format (I guess Jay already said that).
What's important, above all else though, is the pool, the game, the format... HAS to be entertaining to the general public. You have to get this on TV broadcasts. You HAVE to be able to get people to watch on a large scale to get sponsors to put up big money.
I think the idea of time-limited matches and shot-clocks would go a long way to do this.. but people have to want to watch the players. They have to either root for, like/love, or hate the players at the table to get viewership so that the sponsor makes a return on the investment.
You brought up NASCAR several times in this thread, and I think it's a good example of how good marketing for the drivers and an exciting format can get millions of people watching. However, in a NASCAR race, you have all the cars on the track at the same time. How do you get Joe-Smoe to watch two people play that he doesn't care a flip about? How do you get people (other than the competitors) entertained?
IMHO, most professional sports are more about entertainment than the 'best' competition. Sure, competition is often entertaining, ... but not always.
You're right, often the most entertaining matchs are not allways the last match played, so TV is not really what I have in mind other than the very last match played. The LAST match should be on ESPN, or HBO...but all the rest of the matches should be able to be viewed via the internet, through 4 web cam's per table, head..foot..left side..right side, with a viewer's choice as to which match they want to watch/recored...or come back to and watch
Glen
Glen,
Any idea how much start up capitol this idea would need? Realistically?
Your tournament idea is novel, to say the least.
The cost to present this format to the players, room owners and the masses can be very expensive (IMO) to make available. Some one has to bear the brunt of the cost.
I solid business plan as well as the 'tournament format' will lend itself to being successful with the cost being realistic.
Tom
Any idea how much start up capitol this idea would need? Realistically?
Your tournament idea is novel, to say the least.
The cost to present this format to the players, room owners and the masses can be very expensive (IMO) to make available. Some one has to bear the brunt of the cost.
I solid business plan as well as the 'tournament format' will lend itself to being successful with the cost being realistic.
Tom
Imagination is a beautiful thing!
Is anything really being done towards these goals Glenn or are you just dreaming out loud and everyone is on the same magic carpet ride as you?
This thread does start with "If" in the title so I understand if it's all venting.
Is anything really being done towards these goals Glenn or are you just dreaming out loud and everyone is on the same magic carpet ride as you?
This thread does start with "If" in the title so I understand if it's all venting.
hmmm....yes
You can't spill the beans yet can you?
There's a lot of ground work that has to be done yet, I don't mean from the sponsors end, I'm talking about from the qualifying end...the pool tables all around the country that will be used as "Official Test" tables, and the officials required to administer the skill level testing. Everything has to be on the same sheet of music, meaning all test tables MUST play the exact same no matter where it's located. It has to have the same pocket opening, same cloth, same slate shelf, serviced by a Professional table mechanic as to insure the same playability...and registered as such. No location can have more than one "Official Test" table registered at a time, so the test tables have to be spread out as a way of everyone getting a chance to take a fair skill level test without having to travel 100's of miles to do so.
Glen
Not knocking your idea as I have posted a couple times about a true National/World Champion format:
Pool players and pool fans do not spend money at tournaments
Don't get me wrong, there are a few collectors, businessmen, and gamblers who spend money. The problem is that there are only a few of them and this really doesn't benefit any one specific group. Honestly, Dennis Searing could not sponsor a tournament for $200,000 and expect to receive $200,000 profit on orders received. Pool players are usually the cheapest spenders at pool rooms.
Most tournaments stop because players are to greedy and don't spend money (a fact).
1. One or two guys keep winning and other players stop coming.
2. The host room/bar/casino does not see any significant increase in revenue.
3. Players are only there for the money and if they don't win every other week, stop coming.
All of the above is true. I love pool and in business. The only way I would invest in a pool venture is if I did not care that I lost money. At this stage in my life, I still care. If you can find substantial sponsorship, I will support you all the way, anyone for that matter. If you do have/find sponsorship I hope they see ROI (return on investment) or they will not continue. Every major pool venture in the past 30 years has shut down due to sponsors pulling out. Good luck, and I will offer any help I can seriously. If you need it just ask, if there is anything I can do please send a PM.
Pool players and pool fans do not spend money at tournaments
Don't get me wrong, there are a few collectors, businessmen, and gamblers who spend money. The problem is that there are only a few of them and this really doesn't benefit any one specific group. Honestly, Dennis Searing could not sponsor a tournament for $200,000 and expect to receive $200,000 profit on orders received. Pool players are usually the cheapest spenders at pool rooms.
Most tournaments stop because players are to greedy and don't spend money (a fact).
1. One or two guys keep winning and other players stop coming.
2. The host room/bar/casino does not see any significant increase in revenue.
3. Players are only there for the money and if they don't win every other week, stop coming.
All of the above is true. I love pool and in business. The only way I would invest in a pool venture is if I did not care that I lost money. At this stage in my life, I still care. If you can find substantial sponsorship, I will support you all the way, anyone for that matter. If you do have/find sponsorship I hope they see ROI (return on investment) or they will not continue. Every major pool venture in the past 30 years has shut down due to sponsors pulling out. Good luck, and I will offer any help I can seriously. If you need it just ask, if there is anything I can do please send a PM.
You ever watch the "America's Cup" yacht racing? If you do, you WON"T see one boat manufacture advertising during the race...why not?...Because they can't afford to promote the "America's Cup" race...AND turn a profit, so the sponsors that promote the race...have NOTHING to do with boats
I have a sponsor that will make millions off the pool table industry, and therefore it benefits them to sponsor...at the highest levels
...I CAN change this industry from the table mechanic level...and up...so does that answer your questions?Glen
As fatboy likes to say...either you're ON the train, or you're UNDER it...pick a side, I'm in a hurry
Glen