if someone told you which ball to hit, how much improvement?

michael4

michael4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like 14.1 because it tests my shooting skills as well as my mental problem solving ability.

My question: If the best player in the world told you which ball to hit and why, and where to (try to) leave the CB for the next shot, how much would it improve the game of the average player? (no instruction on stroke)

The answer probably depends one's level of play, but for example, lets say your high run is 25, can expert shot selecton alone quickly produce a high run of 30? 35? 40?


(just trying to figure out how much the average player is hurting himsef by poor shot selection, and how much a person could get better without any improvement in shot making ability) thanks
 
michael4 said:
I like 14.1 because it tests my shooting skills as well as my mental problem solving ability.

My question: If the best player in the world told you which ball to hit and why, and where to (try to) leave the CB for the next shot, how much would it improve the game of the average player? (no instruction on stroke)

The answer probably depends one's level of play, but for example, lets say your high run is 25, can expert shot selecton alone quickly produce a high run of 30? 35? 40?


(just trying to figure out how much the average player is hurting himsef by poor shot selection, and how much a person could get better without any improvement in shot making ability) thanks
Click to expand...

To have a pattern guru such as a Nick Varner, Dallas West, Jim Rempe, Mike Sigel, Ray Martin or Allen Hopkins directing you through the rack would make a huge difference for most players who can pocket with at least some proficiency. If your high run is 25, I think these guys could easily guide you past 40 within six hours.
 
It would help but applying the correct English and speed to control the cue ball are essential.

Watch this video beginning at 3:30.

https://vimeo.com/4957545

If Mosconi told a guy to pocket the ball on the head rail and get straight on the one that wouldn't do the guy any good if he didn't know how much low outside and what speed to use. Again on the key ball if he told him where to land the cue ball but the guy couldn't hit it with the right English and speed he wouldn't land perfect on the break ball like Mosconi did.

Not to dismiss the value of good patterns but you can't separate that from the ability to control the cue ball. Now if you take a good rotation player like for example Bartram and you get Ray Martin or Diliberto telling him which ball to shoot and where to put the cue ball - Bartram suddenly becomes a dangerous 14.1 player.
 
I can tell you for a fact that I'm a better player when I have John Schmidt doing my thinking for me. ;)
 
alstl said:
If Mosconi told a guy to pocket the ball on the head rail and get straight on the one that wouldn't do the guy any good if he didn't know how much low outside and what speed to use.
Click to expand...

I agree, the Guru would have to consider the shooter's abilities when picking the shots for him.
 
Hello, I am new to this forum and have just started playing the game within the last year and a half. I like it because it is extremely challenging and unlike other games it forces you to maintain focus over an extended period of time. I'm not sure what my high run is because I almost always play the game alone and usually get lost and have to approximate.......I have run 2 official 40's and I'm pretty sure my high run is around 50 give or take 5..... Anyways, because I'm not necessarily accustomed to the end game patterns I think having someone that plays the game at a high level help with my patterns especially with the last 5 balls or so, would be highly beneficial. There's definetely something to be said about having to basically shoot a stop shot on the key ball and not be a mile away like I usually am. I have Capelle's book "Play Your Best Straight Pool" and have glossed over it a few times and the little that I know, I picked up from the book. I just joined a straight pool league and am hoping to learn some by the end of it. Regardless, it's great to actually compete against another person.
 
This would be a great thing to try. I've never heard of it in straight pool, but hear of it all the time in one pocket. I would imagine when straight pool was in its heyday, this proposition happened often.

The times I've seen coaching in one pocket did not go well for the coached team. But I think it was more due to the poor relationship of coach/student in both cases from the teams I personally saw.
 
I'd love to try this. I think I'm at the level where all a player has to say is which OB and where to have the CB stop and I'll get it there within the accuracy of my game. But he wouldn't have to tell me how to get it there.

You know, this could be something that would work in a live stream situation. Have a top player on AZ coach while watching on ustream. lol
 
I've done this

I've done this exact excercise. I've spent countless hours playing john Smith exactly this way at the old Amsterdam West. Then I spent many months doing similar play, except occasionally taking English direction on break balls, etc, with Thorsten. Stu is correct in that it can turn 20 ball runners into 40 ball runners relatively quickly.
 
NYC cue dude said:
I've done this exact excercise. I've spent countless hours playing john Smith exactly this way at the old Amsterdam West. Then I spent many months doing similar play, except occasionally taking English direction on break balls, etc, with Thorsten. Stu is correct in that it can turn 20 ball runners into 40 ball runners relatively quickly.
Click to expand...

Did it increase you play instantaneously every time or almost every time you had a coach compared to lets say the day before when you had no coach? Did the play then return to your own "normal" the next day?

When you talk about many months, did the many months of this coaching improve your play without the coach?

Thank you.
 
Lynch said:
Hello, I am new to this forum and have just started playing the game within the last year and a half. I like it because it is extremely challenging and unlike other games it forces you to maintain focus over an extended period of time. I'm not sure what my high run is because I almost always play the game alone and usually get lost and have to approximate.......I have run 2 official 40's and I'm pretty sure my high run is around 50 give or take 5..... Anyways, because I'm not necessarily accustomed to the end game patterns I think having someone that plays the game at a high level help with my patterns especially with the last 5 balls or so, would be highly beneficial. There's definetely something to be said about having to basically shoot a stop shot on the key ball and not be a mile away like I usually am. I have Capelle's book "Play Your Best Straight Pool" and have glossed over it a few times and the little that I know, I picked up from the book. I just joined a straight pool league and am hoping to learn some by the end of it. Regardless, it's great to actually compete against another person.
Click to expand...

Some accustats 14.1 videos might be beneficial to you. If you watch enough high level 14.1 you begin to see what the pattern will be and how the player is going to break open clusters.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Did it increase you play instantaneously every time or almost every time you had a coach compared to lets say the day before when you had no coach? Did the play then return to your own "normal" the next day?

When you talk about many months, did the many months of this coaching improve your play without the coach?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

It increased my level of play immediately, from the first ball to the last ball. My subsequent play transgressed while alone, but as I continued playing, my base level increased quite rapidly. I played Thorsten for nearly 3 years straight, 8 hours a day, exclusively straight pool. Between watching him play and his coaching, there is no doubt I am a MUCH stronger player than before.
 
This might be a little off the oriiginal ? but I can tell you after getting John Shmits" s dvd HOW I RUN THE 100'S immediatly my game went up its almost like him telling you what to shoot IMHO
 
alstl said:
Some accustats 14.1 videos might be beneficial to you. If you watch enough high level 14.1 you begin to see what the pattern will be and how the player is going to break open clusters.
Click to expand...

I have a couple accustats videos on VHS actually.....but don't a vcr right now.....Are there any great straight pool matches you would recommend? Thanks in advance
 
You tube

Lynch said:
I have a couple accustats videos on VHS actually.....but don't a vcr right now.....Are there any great straight pool matches you would recommend? Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, there are a bunch of great straight pool matches on YouTube. No DVR necessary :smile:
 
NYC cue dude said:
It increased my level of play immediately, from the first ball to the last ball. My subsequent play transgressed while alone, but as I continued playing, my base level increased quite rapidly. I played Thorsten for nearly 3 years straight, 8 hours a day, exclusively straight pool. Between watching him play and his coaching, there is no doubt I am a MUCH stronger player than before.
Click to expand...

I can attest. When you and I played a casual match at Amsterdam four or five years ago, you ran, if memory serves, a 34 on me.
 
During the shot process you need to plan then switch to perform... with zero overlap.

A lot of runs end because guys shoot while still unclear about what exactly they are going to do.

Knowing exactly what you are going to do on every shot without any question or doubt when shooting is a huge benefit that will raise your level of play in itself... then on top of that you get the benefit of playing better patterns. I think a good player could expect great improvement in this type of situation.
 
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Even though I'm 87 years old, have played pool off and on since age 14 and have a high run of 30 I answer a resounding yes to the question.

Dave Nelson
 
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