If the top 200 cue collectors all had to sell their cues, what would happen to value?

I was wondering how much the value of collectible cues is driven by the top collectors. I don't know if 200 is a good # to pick, but I think you get the gist. If these 200 sold out by putting their cues up for auction over a few month period, and these collectors stayed out of the market, what would happen to value for the next few years?

Would a Balabushka that just sold for $12,000 today drop to 1/2 that?

good question!!

The prices would drop dramatically. cuemakers would have to start giving a damn again (ie customer service would go through the roof, as of now it's in the crapper), and cues would actually start playing better as a result. collectors have ruined the cue buying market for real players is the take home point really. thanks collectors..... enjoy those cues that sit in cases all day for years!
 
the easiest way to get a cue you can't afford...just build it yourself. It's not rocket science, just takes alot of patience and the ability to learn, and you will find many people will lend helpful hands and advice. I mean really, what would be your favorite a 15k dollar szamboti or a sweet hittin beautiful cue you made your self? I for one would be much prouder in the fact that I made such a cue with my own hands, its your creation...what could be better than that?

Grey Ghost

This sounds simple and I agree that the satisfaction of making some thing for yourself is well worth the time invested. But, unfortunately the project is more intense that it appears, in reality you could buy a $4000 or $5000 dollar cue for what it would cost you to make a single playable cue for yourself.

I personally would applaud anyone who wants to give this a try, in fact I would share the limited knowledge that I have and limited materials so long as I know they will be wasted. But I do not think it is economical for most people in both the time it takes to learn / accomplish the task and the money it will cost in equipment and materials.

However, if some is interested please contact me.



JIMO
 
Last edited:
the easiest way to get a cue you can't afford...just build it yourself. It's not rocket science, just takes alot of patience and the ability to learn, and you will find many people will lend helpful hands and advice. I mean really, what would be your favorite a 15k dollar szamboti or a sweet hittin beautiful cue you made your self? I for one would be much prouder in the fact that I made such a cue with my own hands, its your creation...what could be better than that?

Grey Ghost

By the time you figure in equipment and material costs, tooling and most expensive of all, the time spent learning to build cues it would have been cheaper to just buy that $15,000 Boti. It's like saying if you cant afford a Rolex you should learn to be a watchmaker.

If you pay yourself $15 an hour you would have 1000 hours to learn to be a cuemaker (that is leaving out any of the substantial costs of equipment) if you work twenty hours a week that $15,000 would pay for 50 weeks worth of your time. Less than a year of cue building experience. It makes more financial sense to spend $15,000 on a proven talent's 20-40 years of experience.

I see what you are going for but it just doesn't make any real sense. There are lots of reasons to build cues. To save money just doesn't add up to one in the real world.
 
you had a what we call a brain fart lmao

Are you serious? How can you compare a Gus or Barry to what someone's first attempt at making a cue could possibly be? I am actually in shock for this blatant disregard for what time and experience an accomplished cuemaker has acquired.

:shakehead:


Chris

you over react, i said time and patience...you jumped to conclusions and said someones first attempt...maybe you failed 50 or a 100 times...but what if one day you made a cue that was worthy in look and hit to be in the class of the masters, a real deal son of a b***h of a cue...i am actually in shock for this blatant disregard for what time and experience and accomplishments a person can acquire. And the even greater joy of accomplishment something very personal, much more than buying something.:wink:

Grey Ghost
 
By the time you figure in equipment and material costs, tooling and most expensive of all, the time spent learning to build cues it would have been cheaper to just buy that $15,000 Boti. It's like saying if you cant afford a Rolex you should learn to be a watchmaker.

If you pay yourself $15 an hour you would have 1000 hours to learn to be a cuemaker (that is leaving out any of the substantial costs of equipment) if you work twenty hours a week that $15,000 would pay for 50 weeks worth of your time. Less than a year of cue building experience. It makes more financial sense to spend $15,000 on a proven talent's 20-40 years of experience.

I see what you are going for but it just doesn't make any real sense. There are lots of reasons to build cues. To save money just doesn't add up to one in the real world.

or sacrafice things be patient adn save and buy the cue, and maybe start off small building cues and doing repairs. 5 years down the road you got your 6k$ Q you always wanted and you sell a mean hitting stick. Don't tell me it takes 20 years...yea if you trial and error, they got plenty of GREAT cuemakers out there that share knowledge. Doubt me and I'll prove you wrong my self in less than 5yrs. 3 years ago i was a oilfeild green horn and made like 20 grand this year im going to pull in 70k (because i learned from some of the best an didn't go off half cocked) and i work 7&7 now so i got time to learn because I make it so. And if you do it right as just a hobby at first it and never over extend yourself its not going to be a financial risk. If my first cue doesn't come out exactly as expected then I'm just going to finish it so its useable by the kids up at the boys and girls club (thanks for idea cocobolo cowboy!):smile:, and write it off as a donation on my taxes and a loss. I just am a firm believer that anyone can do almost anything, and anything great can come from almost anywhere. I'm not naive, just smart and optimistic. Maybe I won't make a living doing this, but I guarantee you it wont take me 20yrs for my hobby to support itself.
 
or sacrafice things be patient adn save and buy the cue, and maybe start off small building cues and doing repairs. 5 years down the road you got your 6k$ Q you always wanted and you sell a mean hitting stick. Don't tell me it takes 20 years...yea if you trial and error, they got plenty of GREAT cuemakers out there that share knowledge. Doubt me and I'll prove you wrong my self in less than 5yrs. 3 years ago i was a oilfeild green horn and made like 20 grand this year im going to pull in 70k (because i learned from some of the best an didn't go off half cocked) and i work 7&7 now so i got time to learn because I make it so. And if you do it right as just a hobby at first it and never over extend yourself its not going to be a financial risk. If my first cue doesn't come out exactly as expected then I'm just going to finish it so its useable by the kids up at the boys and girls club (thanks for idea cocobolo cowboy!):smile:, and write it off as a donation on my taxes and a loss. I just am a firm believer that anyone can do almost anything, and anything great can come from almost anywhere. I'm not naive, just smart and optimistic. Maybe I won't make a living doing this, but I guarantee you it wont take me 20yrs for my hobby to support itself.

I doubt you.

I think you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

I think you are talking out of your ass.

Commence to proving me wrong.


<---Cant wait for the Grey Ghost Cues $15,000 cue unveiling in 2014
 
I doubt you.

I think you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

I think you are talking out of your ass.

Commence to proving me wrong.


<---Cant wait for the Grey Ghost Cues $15,000 cue unveiling in 2014

Now don't start making junk up, never said I would build a 15k dollar cue ever, thats collectability but I guarantee that in 5 years i will have people that gladly send me orders for nice customs that are going to be dam good players. You usually seem pretty negative, don't hate those with drive ....if i can do it in the oilfield then why not cue making?

Thank you tho very much, just like the haters when I was startin makin on $11 and hour a few years back...well I got the amazing job, work half the year, great benefits all the good stuff, oh did i mention they going to pay for classes and ill be finishing up my engineering degree and saving bank. I'm (blessed) blessed by god, adn the fact I was willing to work my a** off to get there, and learn...and all the haters are sittin under me now. Thanks for helping me to become more and more successful in life everyday...without your comments I might get lazy and get old...old and tired like your comments, hear em' everyday and I just laugh it away. Patiently awaiting your crow dinner in the future sir.

and its not grey ghost cues...probably gonna be named epignosis its greek you should look it up its an interesting concept:wink:
and when I do get there I'm sending one to you on the house, for helping me attain my goal
 

Attachments

  • ca707e4e078753b49852593b14c848a3.jpg
    ca707e4e078753b49852593b14c848a3.jpg
    31.6 KB · Views: 165
Last edited:
Now don't start making junk up, never said I would build a 15k dollar cue ever, thats collectability but I guarantee that in 5 years i will have people that gladly send me orders for nice customs that are going to be dam good players. You usually seem pretty negative, don't hate those with drive ....if i can do it in the oilfield then why not cue making?

Thank you tho very much, just like the haters when I was startin makin on $11 and hour a few years back...well I got the amazing job, work half the year, great benefits all the good stuff, oh did i mention they going to pay for classes and ill be finishing up my engineering degree and saving bank. I'm (blessed) blessed by god, adn the fact I was willing to work my a** off to get there, and learn...and all the haters are sittin under me now. Thanks for helping me to become more and more successful in life everyday...without your comments I might get lazy and get old...old and tired like your comments, hear em' everyday and I just laugh it away. Patiently awaiting your crow dinner in the future sir.

and its not grey ghost cues...probably gonna be named epignosis its greek you should look it up its an interesting concept:wink:

LOL..you seem to think I worry about what you do. You post raging bullsh!t that belittles the hard work and talent of people who actually create what you so casually claim to be able to.

As for drive, I have helped create arguably one of the most innovative companies in pool in the last 30 years. Went from not knowing how to turn on a video camera to producing live three camera shoots all over the United States and creating and distributing DVD's all over the world. I know about drive. I also know about respect.

Congrats on improving your lot in life. Generally that is what most people try to do. But you deserve a cookie for it just because you are a special little snowflake. Just for the record I could care less what you do or dont make. I know plenty of people who make more than you ever will in your life so money doesn't impress me, not that $70,000 is any ridiculous amount of money anyway. I have seen that change hands in one set. Forget about across a poker table.

So now that I have motivated you I look forward to seeing these cues that are so easy to make you can have a self supporting business in five years. But we both know that won't happen because you just like to talk sh!t on the internet and tell everyone how special you are because you learned how to make a middle class wage.

By the way, this thread was about high end cues. Assembling some wood into a cue shaped object is far from what I am talking about but it doesn't really matter anyway.

How about you tell us all your name so we can be on the lookout for these killer works of art in the future? It's called integrity. If you haven't heard of it maybe you should look it up. It's an interesting concept.


<-----likes to know who he is talking to.

Justin Collett
 
Last edited:
In all honesty I would see little difference in price as another group of collectors would snatch up the cues. At worst prices would drop modestly so those collectors could snatch up the majority.

The only way we would see a difference is if they were buying and immediately reselling over and over again. In the first run those cues would not lose value and if they did it would be a very modest loss.
 
In all honesty I would see little difference in price as another group of collectors would snatch up the cues. At worst prices would drop modestly so those collectors could snatch up the majority.

The only way we would see a difference is if they were buying and immediately reselling over and over again. In the first run those cues would not lose value and if they did it would be a very modest loss.

In this thought exercise it's the top 200 collectors who would be selling not buying. So then when you start from the people who might have an interest, those being collector #201 and down who presumably aren't as wealthy as collectors 200 and above then the economic model suggests that the sudden influx of supply depresses prices because consumers of that item have more choice and there is much more competition from sellers to sell rather than competition in buyers to buy.

Another way to look at it is the availability of 10,000 Balabushkas on the market vs. 20. If there are 10,000 then that means that the consumers of them have plenty of suppliers and the suppliers must compete hard for each sale. If however there are only 20 then there are very few suppliers and the customers must compete very hard for each purchase. Scarcity always drives prices higher.

The same thing happens to any commodity which suddenly floods the market. If for example a new gold mine were found and the owners extracted all the gold in one month and dumped it on the market then prices for gold would plummet. This is why the diamond trade is so tightly controlled. There is not a shortage of diamonds, supply is artificially manipulated to keep prices where the cartel wants them. This is also why they work so hard to try and stop the creation of laboratory grown diamonds, because once diamonds can be created in the lab real ones won't be worth much more than playground rocks.

Another thing where a sudden flood of cues would hurt the market is for cue makers as their lists suddenly become less valuable and people give up their spots since they can get instant gratification due to the large numbers of cues from all makers entering the market.

If the top 200 collectors sold off their cues and exited the market then it would leave a hole in the market that wouldn't easily be filled by others. The net value of all those cues would go down from what it was.

That does not mean that if a person buys a Szamboti for $4000 that was previously worth $6000 in the up market, in this flooded market that their $4000 is unsafe. That would depend on how long they planned to hold it and the real number of Szambotis that entered the market after they made their purchase.

If a person bought the 6k Szam for 4k and planned to hold it for a long time then it's pretty likely that their investment is about as safe as T-bills, bonds, CDs and the like at least. If they planned to flip it quickly then they might be hating life if someone dumps their Szam collection on the market at the same time and the price of their 4k purchase drops to 2k in the short term.

Of course you might be right that the sudden influx of cues might cause people to start liquidating other assets to buy them up and that they would cause prices to rise.

Aren't market dynamics fun?
 
Just like anything in the world, if everyone is selling, then the prices would plummet. Perceived value would also take a huge hit and it would be difficult to predict when and if it would come back. I dont see the world's affection for pool ending so more than likely the cues would be a buying opportunity, especially older cues from the legendary masters that come with documented provenance.

As for the contention that in 5 years you could learn to build a good quality cue, I would agree with that, as long as you are dedicated and have funding to get good equipment and supplies and training. Its a longshot though that anyone could be valued as a legendary cuemaker after 5 years. The past legends and current legends are all the top 1% of cuemakers, if that. It could be closer to 1/100 of 1% or even less. Don't think for a moment that the other 99% were not trying damn hard and were not dedicated.
 
The more I think about it the more I would be kinda giddy about this cue stick apocalypse.

Id have me a few elaborate bushkas and szambotis for sure and cheap too!

<rubs his hands together greedily and hopes the mayans were right!>
 
Just like anything in the world, if everyone is selling, then the prices would plummet. Perceived value would also take a huge hit and it would be difficult to predict when and if it would come back. I dont see the world's affection for pool ending so more than likely the cues would be a buying opportunity, especially older cues from the legendary masters that come with documented provenance.

As for the contention that in 5 years you could learn to build a good quality cue, I would agree with that, as long as you are dedicated and have funding to get good equipment and supplies and training. Its a longshot though that anyone could be valued as a legendary cuemaker after 5 years. The past legends and current legends are all the top 1% of cuemakers, if that. It could be closer to 1/100 of 1% or even less. Don't think for a moment that the other 99% were not trying damn hard and were not dedicated.

thats all i'm trying to say in 5 years i should be able to build a dam good quality cue, never meant that in 5 i would be some kind of legend selling cues with 15k dollar price tags lmao
 
ohhh chubs don't get mad...its unbecoming of you, you the man so don't worry about me

LOL..you seem to think I worry about what you do. You post raging bullsh!t that belittles the hard work and talent of people who actually create what you so casually claim to be able to.

As for drive, I have helped create arguably one of the most innovative companies in pool in the last 30 years. Went from not knowing how to turn on a video camera to producing live three camera shoots all over the United States and creating and distributing DVD's all over the world. I know about drive. I also know about respect.

Congrats on improving your lot in life. Generally that is what most people try to do. But you deserve a cookie for it just because you are a special little snowflake. Just for the record I could care less what you do or dont make. I know plenty of people who make more than you ever will in your life so money doesn't impress me, not that $70,000 is any ridiculous amount of money anyway. I have seen that change hands in one set. Forget about across a poker table.

So now that I have motivated you I look forward to seeing these cues that are so easy to make you can have a self supporting business in five years. But we both know that won't happen because you just like to talk sh!t on the internet and tell everyone how special you are because you learned how to make a middle class wage.

By the way, this thread was about high end cues. Assembling some wood into a cue shaped object is far from what I am talking about but it doesn't really matter anyway.

How about you tell us all your name so we can be on the lookout for these killer works of art in the future? It's called integrity. If you haven't heard of it maybe you should look it up. It's an interesting concept.


<-----likes to know who he is talking to.

Justin Collett





Well you sure do take your time to talk s**t to me for believing I can do something…if your so not worried then stop typing chubs. Never once did I belittle any of the hard work the cuemakers out there do. I have great respect for many of them, I just know with some dedication it can be done, just like anything else.

Cudos to you on your accomplishments, I’m sure some thought you were off your rocker in going to try to accomplish those things…but you did them now didn’t you. If you know about respect so much you would know you don’t get it without giving it….just more trash talk out of you.

And no 70k aint much at all, after taxes I’ll only take home around 50, but what better could I ask for to be able to finish my degree? I’m not trying to impress anyone, trying to do good by me…do the best I can do for me…that’s what I like to do. If it’s worth doing, then it’s worth doing well. This is not a one upper argument lol, everyone knows people with real big money. You may live in vegas…but we got the oil. You compare me to whatever you like, I’m not comparing myself to anyone nor do I try.

You go off again putting it in my mouth that “cues are so easy to make” they are not. And yes the cue making and parts building would support it’s self in 5. Don’t mean it’s going to support me, not looking for that.

No one is talking s**t but you chubs. Just had to ask for the name, didn’t ya momma tell you to ask first? And you talk about respect.

Keebie Anthony Fleniken II

Oh and by the way chubs, I don't hide the grey ghost was my favorite cartoon character, so I always used that name online. My avatar, is of the REAL Grey Ghost a jazz pianist from TX, my grandfather loved his music and thought it would be a cool pic (sort of a tribute) if you want to keep crying about people hiding i would gladly be obliged to change my picture if the great chubs deems it so. All hail JCIN lord of the UNIVERSE. Keep talking big to make you look bad...when all you look is big in the waiste chubs...1-800-twinkie call them go eat some sugar, have a coke and a smile, and stfu.
 
Back on topic

It looks to me like the simple rule of supply and demand would cause the value of each cue dumped into the market to decrease. And the inverse is true for the collectors that have something special and not readily available on the market. (cluck) :wink:
 
It looks to me like the simple rule of supply and demand would cause the value of each cue dumped into the market to decrease. And the inverse is true for the collectors that have something special and not readily available on the market. (cluck) :wink:

I look at it this way, how many people out there would buy these cue that just showed up all of a sudden? There are alot of people who want certain cues, and if they found them they would buy, and do have cash. Maybe they wouldn't bring TIP top dollar, but I'd think that being what it is art/engineered tool that many would gladly pay for that spain they been wanting forever. It could go anywhich way tho but its a super interesting debate as to what would happen. I just think with ALL the people out there, and the few 200 that collect that the masses would suck them back up in no time. I think tho that the retail value of new order cues would decrease tho if this happened.
 
Well you sure do take your time to talk s**t to me for believing I can do something…if your so not worried then stop typing chubs. Never once did I belittle any of the hard work the cuemakers out there do. I have great respect for many of them, I just know with some dedication it can be done, just like anything else.

Cudos to you on your accomplishments, I’m sure some thought you were off your rocker in going to try to accomplish those things…but you did them now didn’t you. If you know about respect so much you would know you don’t get it without giving it….just more trash talk out of you.

And no 70k aint much at all, after taxes I’ll only take home around 50, but what better could I ask for to be able to finish my degree? I’m not trying to impress anyone, trying to do good by me…do the best I can do for me…that’s what I like to do. If it’s worth doing, then it’s worth doing well. This is not a one upper argument lol, everyone knows people with real big money. You may live in vegas…but we got the oil. You compare me to whatever you like, I’m not comparing myself to anyone nor do I try.

You go off again putting it in my mouth that “cues are so easy to make” they are not. And yes the cue making and parts building would support it’s self in 5. Don’t mean it’s going to support me, not looking for that.

No one is talking s**t but you chubs. Just had to ask for the name, didn’t ya momma tell you to ask first? And you talk about respect.

Keebie Anthony Fleniken II

Oh and by the way chubs, I don't hide the grey ghost was my favorite cartoon character, so I always used that name online. My avatar, is of the REAL Grey Ghost a jazz pianist from TX, my grandfather loved his music and thought it would be a cool pic (sort of a tribute) if you want to keep crying about people hiding i would gladly be obliged to change my picture if the great chubs deems it so. All hail JCIN lord of the UNIVERSE. Keep talking big to make you look bad...when all you look is big in the waiste chubs...1-800-twinkie call them go eat some sugar, have a coke and a smile, and stfu.

You are something special snowflake.

In my experience people who jump straight to the fat jokes are the biggest pussies of all. And that fits perfectly with my vision of you. LOL. God I love the internet. That's my pic to left snowflake. I am easy to find and all over the country. Come see a fat old man some time. I promise you will have a good time.

By the way if that is your real name I feel twice as sorry for you as before. Not only are you a dumb fvck but a dumb fvck named Keebie? You cant make that sh!t up. Priceless.

Is this you snowflake?
snowflake.jpg

I bet you are a runner too. One of those little healthy people who think they are smarter than everyone else only to get hit by a bus one day. That would be horrible snowflake. Watch out for buses.
 
Last edited:
wow i got a stalker....guess theres a first time for everything

sure is...good job magnum-pi...I didn't know you were that into me to go stalk me down on myspace, im flattered. and busses only hit slow pokes, funny id rather get knocked for being a runner than a twinkie eater, sorry I'm healthy and skip the ronanld mcdonald. LMAO...twinkie's got a crush...sorry i don't swing that way but don't feel bad, your in vegas and I'm sure you can have a good time with any other boy you like. Don't be upset your name is production and mines custom...you can buy a new one at the court house buddy.

Keeb-


PS- you get teased cuz your a d*K not b/c your fat, when you come on here acting like a child I'll just treat you like one. Later stud
 
Last edited:
I look at it this way, how many people out there would buy these cue that just showed up all of a sudden? There are alot of people who want certain cues, and if they found them they would buy, and do have cash. Maybe they wouldn't bring TIP top dollar, but I'd think that being what it is art/engineered tool that many would gladly pay for that spain they been wanting forever. It could go anywhich way tho but its a super interesting debate as to what would happen. I just think with ALL the people out there, and the few 200 that collect that the masses would suck them back up in no time. I think tho that the retail value of new order cues would decrease tho if this happened.


I need your decoder ring to read this.....:eek:
 
Back
Top