Have heard this statement before, and responded similarly :thumbup:
If you call a hard shot and the ball goes into the pocket, why is it luck?
- Thread starter Lock N Load
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Have heard this statement before, and responded similarly :thumbup:
A few years ago I was determined to learn how to kick balls. I bought Grady Matthews tape "Only Kicks". I liked it so well, I went to Gradys house and had him teach me everything about it. I wound up taking lessons for two years. I set aside six hours every Sunday afternoon to work on only kick shots. After I had been doing this for about a year, I got into an important match and the guy played me safe sitting square on the reference line for a two rail kick in the side and the ball was hanging in front of the side pocket. Shape was also natural off that shot so I kicked it in got shape and ran out.
My opponent went nuts. He threw his stick down and started yelling I was the luckiest kick shot player in central Florida. I told Grady about this when I saw him about a week later. He just smiled and said, "Well, that's what you want them to say."
low percentage shots, or not?
If I "see" a shot at the moment it isn't a low percentage shot, doesn't matter if I can miss it ten times out of ten on another day. My favorite response when someone is surprised by a shot and either applauds it or proclaims it a lucky shot is to respond in a flat voice, "it was dead." Funny thing is that was usually the truth, at the moment.
Hu
If I "see" a shot at the moment it isn't a low percentage shot, doesn't matter if I can miss it ten times out of ten on another day. My favorite response when someone is surprised by a shot and either applauds it or proclaims it a lucky shot is to respond in a flat voice, "it was dead." Funny thing is that was usually the truth, at the moment.
Hu
Luck is a hard thing to nail down. Because I grew up playing in bars with bangers, I didn't know or comprehend playing shape. I always had to invent a shot. As a result, I can see caroms and combinations inside clusters that escape others in my skill group. The lucky part is me stroking straight enough to hit what I see... but if I call the shot, it's because the shot goes!
Here's What It's Really All About
I was told this by Machine Gun Lou Buttera when I met him at a pool hall opening back in the 60's.
"Any One Can Make a Shot Once......That's Anyone!" ......... Sometimes the shooter can pocket the same shot twice in a row...... However, when you truly know the shot, you have to be able to pocket the ball 3 times in a row." So naturally, as a bright eyed pool novice, I asked him why 3 times was so important. His answer was succinct and subtle. If you make the shot once, it may be just luck, twice could be a mere coincidence but pocket the same shot 3x, well then you know you have it down.
I've embraced that concept whole heartedly and it serves me well. If you have any doubts, set up a hard shot....a really tough one, doesn't matter. Shoot that same shot and makes it 3 times in a row......it's going to take you a little longer than you think to and don't be surprised if it becomes harder than you imagine.
So making a hard shot can absolutely, and accurately described to be, just a lucky shot. I mean you could have just guessed how much English to use, or guessed to shoot the shot with no English & use object ball throw, or it was a kick shot you really didn't know where to strike the cue ball on the short rail, or you had to carom the object ball into the pocket, etc.
Heck, you could have even missed your aim point and still pocketed the ball. so.......YES, ABSOLUTELY........pocketing a hard shot that you just called. or even diagrammed on the table, can be nothing but a lucky shot....................BUT...............make that same shot in practice, or any really difficult shot, and pocket it 3x in a row, then can you know for sure that it was all skill and zero luck involved.
Sans pocketing that identical shot 3x in a row, then you really can't be sure how much luck was involved pocketing just one very hard shot.
I was told this by Machine Gun Lou Buttera when I met him at a pool hall opening back in the 60's.
"Any One Can Make a Shot Once......That's Anyone!" ......... Sometimes the shooter can pocket the same shot twice in a row...... However, when you truly know the shot, you have to be able to pocket the ball 3 times in a row." So naturally, as a bright eyed pool novice, I asked him why 3 times was so important. His answer was succinct and subtle. If you make the shot once, it may be just luck, twice could be a mere coincidence but pocket the same shot 3x, well then you know you have it down.
I've embraced that concept whole heartedly and it serves me well. If you have any doubts, set up a hard shot....a really tough one, doesn't matter. Shoot that same shot and makes it 3 times in a row......it's going to take you a little longer than you think to and don't be surprised if it becomes harder than you imagine.
So making a hard shot can absolutely, and accurately described to be, just a lucky shot. I mean you could have just guessed how much English to use, or guessed to shoot the shot with no English & use object ball throw, or it was a kick shot you really didn't know where to strike the cue ball on the short rail, or you had to carom the object ball into the pocket, etc.
Heck, you could have even missed your aim point and still pocketed the ball. so.......YES, ABSOLUTELY........pocketing a hard shot that you just called. or even diagrammed on the table, can be nothing but a lucky shot....................BUT...............make that same shot in practice, or any really difficult shot, and pocket it 3x in a row, then can you know for sure that it was all skill and zero luck involved.
Sans pocketing that identical shot 3x in a row, then you really can't be sure how much luck was involved pocketing just one very hard shot.
People often need an excuse when someone bests them. Many resort to saying they just got a bad roll or that they would have won if their opponent hadn't got lucky on X number of shots.
People also like to argue, particularly when they lose or sense they might lose. If your opponent makes a tough shot and called it, swallow your pride and congratulate them. Pool should be a gentleman's game.
People also like to argue, particularly when they lose or sense they might lose. If your opponent makes a tough shot and called it, swallow your pride and congratulate them. Pool should be a gentleman's game.
Winning or losing has nothing to do with estimating and analysing of what happened in a particular shot.
Serious tournament players often talk about what happened in critical parts of a game, their analysis of the shots taken has nothing to do with opponent respect or accepting win or defeat as an outcome.
Petros
Serious tournament players often talk about what happened in critical parts of a game, their analysis of the shots taken has nothing to do with opponent respect or accepting win or defeat as an outcome.
Petros
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Hello Dr9ball,
Very good to hear from you. How are you and the family? How has things been going for you in the pool circle and the rest of life?
When you get a chance go over to Facebook.com and check out the Lock Society page and let me know what you think? Thanks, Lock Doctor.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
ShootingArts,
How are you doing these days? I have been waiting to see you at Buffalo Billiards. I guess I keep missing you there. Perhaps you have not been going there much!
I like your remark about the shot was dead!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
It can be
I can probably make about any shot a pro makes when their shooting in a tournament. I'm not talking trick shots. The difference between me and a top pro is they can make difficult shots a lot more often then I can. They have what I call the "consistent" edge. Their lots more consistent at shooting shape, making tough shots and running racks then me and most shooters are. So if I call a shot and make it for me it is not a lucky shot if I can consistently make it more often then not. But if I can't and I wouldn't bet a hundred bucks on the shot every time then chances are it's a lucky shot for me.
I can probably make about any shot a pro makes when their shooting in a tournament. I'm not talking trick shots. The difference between me and a top pro is they can make difficult shots a lot more often then I can. They have what I call the "consistent" edge. Their lots more consistent at shooting shape, making tough shots and running racks then me and most shooters are. So if I call a shot and make it for me it is not a lucky shot if I can consistently make it more often then not. But if I can't and I wouldn't bet a hundred bucks on the shot every time then chances are it's a lucky shot for me.
Shooting
If you played back in the 60's, then you are close to my age (65), and I agree 100% with what Lou told you.
If you played back in the 60's, then you are close to my age (65), and I agree 100% with what Lou told you.
Hello Snapshot9,
I have not seen you around as of late. How are you and the family? I am glad to see you posting again. You take good care of yourself and Say hello sometime! Thanks for your input.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
I think you talk about another aspect also, and her I want to add something to this. You say, the pros can do tough shots in a much more consistent way than you. OK. This is probably the same for me although I don't know you. But I'm not a pro, that's the difference, and I also don not have the skills of a pro!
What I want to add is this: In my understanding a pro is not a pro or can not play as a pro because of his consistency at tough shots. This may ba half of the thuth, but the other half is also very important. It is the fact that a good and succesful pro has 3 major additional skills:
Skill a): play the game strategically with the focus: Avoiding tough shots!
Skill b): they can reach their strategical focus by playing very consistently their white ball positioning.
Skill c): a good pro knows exactly to decide which shot is too tough and then play a safety instead.
Making a tough shot with a high percentage of consitency for itself does not make a pro in my opinion.
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moved to Alaska
LnL,
I have moved to the frozen north. Maybe not to Alaska but almost to the Mississippi state line which is a long ways north from Metairie! Need to get to Buff's but no idea when it will be.
Hu
LnL,
I have moved to the frozen north. Maybe not to Alaska but almost to the Mississippi state line which is a long ways north from Metairie! Need to get to Buff's but no idea when it will be.
Hu
IMHO I would never call that a lucky shot. If you call a bank and instead you make a 3 rail bank to the pocket you called.... that's a lucky shot. I've spent days just practicing "lucky shots". If I'm shooting pool with my oldest daughter and I tell her I don't want to cut the nine to the bottom right pocket (because I may scratch), I am going to use a 2 rail bank to get there instead. After I made the shot and the pocket, we know that was not luck. To me pool is a game of probabilities not lucky shots.
About a year ago I read an interview with Efren Reyes, he was quoted as saying "If I see someone make a lucky shot or a shot that I thought was impossible, I will go home and try to repeat that shot until I figure it out." I'm no Efren but I can see more possibilities on the table after reading that article.
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Hello Hu,
I am sorry you left us. And now have moved to plum nearly! Plum out of the city and nearly out of the State! Now you will have to take a long ride to get to the worlds pool hall. What town are you in now?
Last night At Buffalo Billiards. They were at it again. Big time pots at the end of the Rainbow. Richie and Josh started things off with a match of high stakes. I could not stay for the finish though. Hu you are missing all of the action! I think you get the news from friends.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.