If you foul, but your opponent doesn't see it, should you call it on yourself?

Tank69 stated: "I feel the rules were written with some morals/integrity in mind of the person fouling"


Tank, I think all players bring their own level of morals to the table...myself included.

The trouble with bringing morals to the table is that they are our own personal morals and we live in a very diverse world of varying viewpoints.

If you believe morals should be critical in the rules, then whos morals should set the standard?

Tough question...I know.

So, instead if interjecting individual, moral statndards into the interpretation of the rules...it has been suggested that it would be much more practical to simply let the rules speak for themselves and allow the chips to fall where they will.

As long as you are following the rules, there should be no issue unless of course you choose to introduce moral interpretations.

In that respect....you can call a foul on yourself or you can choose not to. In either case, no rule violation has occured and there is no dispute.

It is only the infusion of moral judgement that seeks to label one action as cheating and the other as honorable.
 
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rrick33 said:
Tank69 stated: "I feel the rules were written with some morals/integrity in mind of the person fouling"


Tank, I think all players bring their own level of morals to the table...myself included.

The trouble with bringing morals to the table is that they are our own personal morals and we live in a very diverse world of varying viewpoints.

If you believe morals should be critical in the rules, then whos morals should set the standard?

Tough question...I know.

So, instead if interjecting individual, moral statndards into the interpretation of the rules...it has been suggested that it would be much more practical to simply let the rules speak for themselves and allow the chips to fall where they will.

As long as you are following the rules, there should be no issue unless of course you choose to introduce moral interpretations.
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Well said. With that post, this thread should drift off because what you stated pretty much sums it up. Again, well said Rick...well said! :cool:
 
My 27 yr. old son has just won this years 'sportsmanship award' for his multi sport adult league. It is his second such award. I am as proud of him for that as any of his athletic acomplishments.

Good sportman is a description placed on one by others. It is similiar to respect. It is earned. One does not self declare one as such.

Playing within the strict wording of the rules keeps one from being labled a cheater. No one can justly call one a cheater if they follow the rules.

I doubt that an outsider watching matches that sees one constantly foul & not call the foul on themselves would ever describe them as a good sportsman.

Maybe we should just put this question on a poll and then tally the votes.

Regards,
 
rrick33 said:
Tank, welcome to the conversation. In previous posts it was determined, by rule, that if a foul is not called, then it never happened. It doesn't matter whether you opponent could not see it.
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No, it doesn't say it NEVER HAPPENED. It was ascertained a couple of pages ago that the rule actually said "it will be ASSUMED a foul never happened".

That is two different meanings, at least in my opinion.

Maniac (I'm two pages behing in this thread. It's moving like a runaway freight train :eek:)
 
rrick33 said:
Tank, I think all players bring their own level of morals to the table...myself included.
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Pretty much sums up the thread in a nutshell.

I'll play pool with anybody until I run into those who put the need to win above anything else, at any cost, at the forefront. When I run into one of those, after we're done playing, I won't ever play them again. I'm just in it for the fun of some friendly competition. When someone's bull$hit moves take my fun away, I'm done with them.

There are some in this thread I am done with before I've ever even met them.

This also ends my participation in this thread. It IS a good thread with a lot of thought provoking points made by all sides (as I believe there are at least three sides in this thread).

Carry on my friends, and shoot 'em straight (and....without fouling ;))!!!

Maniac
 
I'd like to bring a formal end to this discussion. It has drawn in an unhealthy amount of attention. Our time can be better spent on other more worthwhile endeavors.
 
Just couldn't resist

ChrisBanks said:
I'd like to bring a formal end to this discussion. It has drawn in an unhealthy amount of attention. Our time can be better spent on other more worthwhile endeavors.
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You're right Chris but I just HAD to post this.

On the INSIDE FRONT COVER of "The Rules of Golf" is the following sentence. The emphasis in bold is my own...

"Play the ball as it lies...play the course as you find it, and if you cannot do either, do what is fair. BUT TO DO WHAT IS FAIR, YOU NEED TO KNOW THE RULES OF GOLF."

Not breaking rules....not being unfair....PERIOD!!!!

Game, set and match.

Over and out. For sure this time!!!

(-:

EagleMan

PS: I disagree that the thread has been "unhealthy." LONG yes...but the expression of opinions on a subject of what the RULES are when there is genuine disagreement is fundamentally healthy.
 
Not every time.

Mostly I play 1 pocket so if I foul I spot a ball or place a penny on the rail next to my pocket.

Playing other games I often have given BIH when my oponent did not see the foul,usualy that is after I lightly touched the CB with the tip of my cue during a practice stroke.If this were to happen during a big team tourney I would probably stand up and give my opponent a chance to ask if I fouled,after that I would go ahead and readress the CB and take my shot.In the same team scenario if I played a shot moving several balls and did not get a rail but my opponent did not notice,I would not call the foul myself but would concede the foul if it is questioned by my opponent.

In a competitive situation a player should be watching his or her table/opponent.If you want to go flirt with girls or drink beer or otherwise piss away your pool match during my time at the table that is fine but don't expect me to babysit you.
 
From the BCAPL General Rules:

1.45 Unsportmanlike Conduct (AR)

1. You must not committ any act which is unsportsmanlike in nature.
This includes, but is not limited to, actions which are embarrassing, disruptive, or detrimental to other players, spectators, event officials, or the sport in general.

2. Players are responsible for their actions at all times while they are present at the event venue, whether playing or not.

3. Unsprostsmanlike conduct is penalize at the discretion of the referee or designated event officials. Penalties for unsportmanlike conduct vary and are based upon the referee's or event officials judgement of the severity and nature of the unsportsmanlike act. Referee's or event officials have the authority to penalize or disqualify, with or without warning, any player who acts in this manner.

4. Unsportsmanlike conduct warnings and penaties required by rule carry forward only in regard to the specific rule violated. Unsportsmanlike conduct warnings and penalties relating to conduct or behavior carry forward and are cumulative during the entire event. (AR)

5. Disqualification from any BCAPL event for unsporstmanlike conduct includes forfeiture of any prize money, trophy or award won by that player or team. In addition. any championship recognition will be deleted form the official record of the event.

Just for consideration & in no direct response to the original question.

Regards,
 
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Did the Foul occur

The answer is YES......... This is covered in any rule of any pool game. It has nothing to do with if you or your opponent saw the foul. The First and Foremost important thing is DID THE FOUL OCCUR.....If the answer is yes, then the penalty for such foul should be carried out. PERIOD...........If you choose not to follow the penalty for such fouls then you my friends are cheating.........You are cheating the Game, your Opponent, and most importantly, Yourself...........And to answer the question, Yes you should call the foul on yourself, its a no brainer.........
 
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Unfortunately, it appears that several posts from this thread have been removed, and the remaining posts have been re-numbered to have no gaps.

This means that many posts in this thread that mention post numbers for earlier posts in this thread are no longer accurate.
 
I'd never want to win a game or match that I didn't play fairly.......so the answer is YES. If I foul and my opponent doesn't see it he will be told and get ball in hand.

James
 
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