I have been wondering why they dont update it with the gluedown method for the bedcloth??
Trent
IF You've Ever Asked RKC for Table Advice..
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
I have been wondering why they dont update it with the gluedown method for the bedcloth??
Trent
Mark and i talk about this all the time. Yes, Mark does a hell of a job either building new rails or rebuilding the original rails, but does hit a peak in the playability of the rails, just as i do. The one main differences between our work is when it comes to the rest of the table, Mark is still happy with the old school wedge and slate screw method of assembling the slate and frame, and does a hell of a job at that. I on the other hand, can't stand working on setting the frame of a table up with so many flaws in the old school design using wedges and slate screws, because that means if you ever have to fine tune level the slates at a later date, in which you will guaranteed, i just hate having to tear the table back down and start over again just to make a few minor adjustments. Anymore, i pretty much refuse to work on tables involving only rebuilding the rails as i feel that's only doing half the job, so to me, i either do all the work, or not any, as i know the complete job is the ultimate pool table when finished, and i even go so far as to show the table owner exactly how my leveling system works so they have a much better understanding of it, that way we have a much better understanding if the owner ever calls me to fine tune level the pool table, i can walk the customer through the steps, no problem. And, just like on all the tables i work on, if there's no leg levelers under the pedestals I'm going to modify that so there is, because i refuse to stack shims under the feet/pedestals, or shim between the frame and the pedestals to adjust the level of the frame. I've told Mark over and over, it don't matter how well he builds rails, if he sends them back and someone else is finishing up the table....HIS work is subject to the abilities of the peraon doing the final assembly of the table, and his work in no way make up for that persons lack of skills. Best built rails in the world can be turned into playing like shit in a heartbeat by a hack....believe that!!!
Well, though I've been using my glue down system for over 30 years now, i have a hard time believing that the world of so called pool table mechanics is ready for that next step of improvement when it seams like most don't care to even install the cloth on the rails correctly....so, why teach the world something else they can screw up in this line of work!
Truse me, the lack of knowledge goes way beyond the inability to install Simonis cloth correctly, as its the same method to install ALL brands of cloth.
I guess a good start would be to get everyone stretching/ installing it right first!!! LOL
JC
Coos Cues
There are however a lot of mechanics out there who can start with Mark's rails and put together the table they go on so the average player will be quite happy. Whoever did Dennis' table wasn't one of them. And sadly the vast majority aren't either. But quite a few are. I just felt like Mark was putting a blanket badmouth on a lot of good people as he lumped everyone who isn't you or he together as chumps.
But of course just because these guys can do that in no way puts them on par with the innovations you're bringing forward. But they don't have to be to be competent and honorable.
JC
Well said, Mark! For both you and Glen.
There's a light-year difference between true masters of a craft and ALL of the rest. Only those who know what they're seeing truly appreciate the results - and artistry.
If folks are after "personality" or "pleasantries" first, perhaps they'd be best rewarded looking for those qualities in their friends. Not that those are mutually exclusive to true masters like you, Mark, and Glen, but a specialist is brought in for their MASTERY. Of their trade. First and foremost.
Carry on and keep leading the Master Class, boys....
K.
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And you're 100% right, there are some good mechanic/installers in this country as well as abroad. But what people seem to fail to understand is when looking at a pool table fully assembled, that is not enough of a reason to say "hey, this guy or that guy knows what he's doing" wben the truth of the persons work is NOT visible as its under the rails, under the bed cloth.... there's the truth of their skills, which is why so few have the guts to realy show their work, where it counts! When someone asks me if so an so is any good at working on pool tables looming for a reference, i always tell them the same thing.... i don't know, send me some pictures of their work and I'll tell you....the pictures i always get are the ones of the table fully assembled....so i tell them
...i don't know, i can't see their work!
JC
Coos Cues
When people look at my table they see an old diamond pro with red label rails. Meh!
When I show them some pictures of how you rebuilt it and explain what you're doing in those photos their mind is blown.
And when people ask me how you could have been here for over a week just to "put together a table" well I guess they had to be here. Can't buy a 2x4 on Sunday in this town to this day!
JC
JC
Coos Cues
I didn't say the average mechanic could put together an acceptable table for the average player. The average mechanic sucks eggs. Actually the average player is about the same. I said many are good enough to satisfy the average player. More than zero.
Here's the imbalance though. The people owning tables tend to be above average players which puts their needs above the average guy who thinks he can work on tables. But not necessarily to the level of Glen and Mark.
And you know what else? I'm an average player and an above average table mechanic. Mostly because the bar is down in the mud.
But I still wanted Glen to work on mine:grin:
JC
And you, Mister K, have some experience playing on a Mark Gregory table.
Well, i guess Dennis could have always hired this Oregon pool table mechanic, he don't use nearly as many staples...LMAO
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perfectpocketz
Banned
When people look at my table they see an old diamond pro with red label rails. Meh!
When I show them some pictures of how you rebuilt it and explain what you're doing in those photos their mind is blown.
And when people ask me how you could have been here for over a week just to "put together a table" well I guess they had to be here. Can't buy a 2x4 on Sunday in this town to this day!
JC
First of all....i don't have and ego like you may think........I tell it like it is....and sugar coat nothing.........unlike you.....you have something to add on every thread for yrs.
Amazing your not a top table and rail mechanic by now.......you have all the answers.
If you go back and reread my post.....I said people that buy the rails from me say the same shit....I have a great refinisher....and table guy.....that's when these problems come to hand.
The guys I build the rails for...... refinish the rails and recover the rails and ship them back never have one problem.
I number the rails and I number the castings....so now you tell me how nice should I be to the idiot that can't follow numbers to install the rails correctly on a pool table?
The problem starts with the guy having others finish my work......to save money and then it happens every time.
I'm not the ego manic you think I am.....NOW GLEN IS FOR SURE...but let's save that for another time.
Glen spoke of me not doing the complete table....well he's right when I ship rails across country....but when I do complete table here in Georgia....no one will do them better....including GLEN.......and I'll put my money where my mouth is.
I'm tired of all the I know a guy and this guys work is........I've been there for 30 some yrs....I've seen the hacks...the talkers.....the bragger.......alll shit work.
This business is talk bad about the last guys work get he job and make the money......never changes.....the guy looks the table over and starts his shit.....man look what this guy did here.....I can't believe the guy did this........they get the job just to do worse work than the last guy.
You guys on here that have something nagitive to say.......have never seen the shit work great mechanics see all the time.....or how the AZ guys called me and Glen for advice on everything to now do work and under cut our prices to get the job and say they do as good.
You guys don't go out there everyday to hear....man come on....just put the cloth on...it don't have to be perfect and do it for this.
Then I tell them I'm not putting my name on garbage work and have people play on the table and who the hell did this table....oh Mark Gregory.....no no not me buddy hire that hack over there....I'm not going down that road.
But when you put your heart and soul into what you do and have to listen to keyboard camandos talk ya down......you wonder why I go off on the shit.
I'm not saying do work and learn.....I'm saying work and keep your fu------ mouth shout while you learn.......then when you get to where I am.....if I'm still around.....let me know how it feels to have people talk about you like they think they know you....or your work.
Botom line.....my rail work makes all the difference in the play of the table.....even if you hack neighbor puts the table together.
But you have to know how to play just a little to tell the difference.
Mark Gregory
Indeed I have, Mister C! The finest table I've ever had the pleasure to play on - done by Mark himself. Which is why I chimed in.
Once you've seen and played and experienced a Master's work, the differences aren't just notable - they leave an impression upon you
You lucky dog!
K.
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Having a standard is appreciated by most. If I needed work I would not hesitate to contact you.
Just so everyone knows, I'm not in the habit of coming behind someone else's work and correcting it as that's not what i do, but in this case, i knew Mark was stuck and floundering over this job, so i felt i owed it to the customer to at least judge Marks rails fairly, so to do that, i agreed to fix the whole table in which Dennis agreed to, making him the ONLY customer in the country to have work done on a pool table by both Mark and myself....to date! And to Mark's credit, i knew there was nothing wrong with the rails Mark built from scratch, and kept telling him so, most pool table mechanics in this country don't like the idea of me following behind them fixing their work because if they did ANYTHING wrong I'd catch it and of course fix it, so you might say i owed it to Mark to make sure he got a good review of his rails. If you look at the list i provided about all the things i listed as hurting this industry, i think you'll see listed pool table mechanics on there. To be honest with everyone, i think the passion for perfection that Mark and I share far out weigh the heart of this industry because it sure seems like we're the only ones that really care about the level of work we perform as having to be second to none, whereas most just care about getting paid and getting back home on time for whatever reason, because the customers just don't have any idea what they're paying for....all they see is the new cloth on the pool table, and the balls bounce off the rails....good enough!
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I can attest to the fact that there are other very dedicated table mechanics out there. Glen and Mark may be two of the best, but they aren't the only two guys who I would trust to work on my table. Ernesto has done quality work for me in the past as has Donny Wessels of West State. Most recently Steve Leistokow came out to give my Diamond table a tune-up and did a great job. The table plays near perfect now! :grin:
perfectpocketz
Banned
indeed i have, mister c! The finest table i've ever had the pleasure to play on - done by mark himself. Which is why i chimed in.
Once you've seen and played and experienced a master's work, the differences aren't just notable - they leave an impression upon you
you lucky dog!
K.
Now this is one of my centennial tables in dallas....all new parts built from scratch.....and play lights out.
I know cause i've played on it and one time i could play.....so i know how a table should play.
Mark gregory
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